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 Mostly Competitive Dark/Eldar List, 1850 critique appreciated

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The Red King
Hekatrix
The Red King

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PostSubject: Mostly Competitive Dark/Eldar List, 1850 critique appreciated   Mostly Competitive Dark/Eldar List, 1850 critique appreciated I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 14 2013, 22:54

Eldar Allies- 557pt

- Farseer w/ EJB, Spear

- WJBx3

- WJBx3

- Warp Spidersx5

- Wraithknight(stock)

Dark Eldar- 1293

- Baron

- Truebornx3 w/SCx2, in Venom w/ Extra SC

- Truebornx3 w/SCx2, in Venom w/ Extra SC

- Truebornx3 w/SCx2, in Venom w/ Extra SC

- Kab Warriorsx10 w/sc, in Raider(stock)

- Kab Warriorsx10 w/sc, in Raider(stock)

- Wychesx5 w/HWG, in Venom w/Extra SC

- Beastmasterx3, Khymx5, flocksx4

- Ravager(stock)

- Ravager(stock)

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Shadows Revenge
Hierarch of Tactica
Shadows Revenge

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PostSubject: Re: Mostly Competitive Dark/Eldar List, 1850 critique appreciated   Mostly Competitive Dark/Eldar List, 1850 critique appreciated I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 15 2013, 15:29

ok, Ill go through this one at a time.

Farseer: Decent choice, I see nothing wrong with it

EJB units: They are fragile at 3 per squad. I would almost combine both so that the farseer's leadership can cover both. You dont want their leadership 8 making them run away now do you???

Warp Spiders: What are they for??? you only have 5, so that really isnt alot of fire added in. I would drop them and get something else with the points you free up, or up their numbers.

Wraithknight: I dont like the wraithknight, but I see its merits. decent, if not expensive. You are running him how I would run him though, so...

Baron: decent HQ choice, nothing to complain about

Splinterborn: Any particular reason you picked them??? You really only see them when you feel that you dont have enough AI in the army, and that is something that is in abundance in a DE army. Im not saying its a bad choice, but it all depends on your meta and how many tanks you see daily. Personally I would rather have more AT and more troop choices first though, but again its up to you.

Troops: Your troops are fine, but I always fill out my 6 troop choices before I start taking extras. Considering 3 of them (5 wyches, 2 3x jetbike squads) are on the small side, I feel you really need that 6th choice. They are also a great way to get some AI in the army, and actuall score. Something you should consider when making changes to the list.

Beasts: standard beast loadout, seems good

Ravagers: Good, but I like 3 personally, although the wraithknight might be able to pick up some slack.

Overall your list seems decent, I just think it needs some changes. How are you going to deal with flyers??? you have nothing in the list at all, and it really would benefit from a hunter. You also need some hardier troops, or just more of them. Personally I feel the wraithknight is just too much points for what he does, and can easily be replaced with a hunter and a ravager and still be about the same points. Then drop atleast 1 trueborn squad and get a 5 man warrior squad w/ blaster in venom, and I feel your list would be 10x better.

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Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Mostly Competitive Dark/Eldar List, 1850 critique appreciated   Mostly Competitive Dark/Eldar List, 1850 critique appreciated I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 15 2013, 20:37

Okay so I'll try to address these in order. First off I should point out that I changed the list in small ways. Baron/beasts, and 1 squad of splinterborn are out. Duke, another venom of haywire wyches and a second raider full of warriors is in.

The farseer is not accompanying the bikes, he's been mantled to allow me to zip with impunity to any location he's needed for psychic powers.

The bikes are indeed a little fragile at that squad size but I intend to use them just for late game linebreak or obj denial/capture so I feel like having two squads just gives me more options. Also both wych venoms and warrior raiders have Grisly trophies (two in the front lines two in the mid-field) to hopefully create a little bubble of relative safety for my LD8 models.

The warp spiders for less then 100 points dump out 10 str6 shots or str7 against armor or low init models, with psuedo-rending so... I have to disagree with you on that.

The Wraithknight has performed marvelously in every game so far, too dangerous/juicy to ignore and any anti-tank going his way is not popping my paper tanks.

Splinterborn have proven through play tests in my meta to just work best for me, the lists I commonly face have very few mechs and leaves some of my AT with nothing to do if I'm not careful. Blasterborn just have to get far too close for my comfort. Side note one venom will be accompanied by the duke for 3+ poison and to absorb wounds when the venom pops.

Troops now have 2 warrior filled raiders, 2 wych filled venoms and 2 EJB squads, hopefully that will prove enough, but I do worry about it.

As for the anti-air it is my weakness but I prefer using positioning and maneuverability over spending points dedicated to fighting something that might not be there at all. Also I think all of our fliers are too paper thin.

Thanks for the input on the list.

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Mostly Competitive Dark/Eldar List, 1850 critique appreciated   Mostly Competitive Dark/Eldar List, 1850 critique appreciated I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 17 2013, 14:49

mantling the farseer is a decent idea, I approve

while having more squads of bikes gives you options, the problem is now with random game length that you dont know when you need to fly them over and contest objectives. If you do it too early and the game doesnt end, they can easily be shot or assaulted off. If you do it too late, well you missed your chance. You need survivability. Its not hard to move 3 marines off an objective, but its tough to move 6. Also add that 9/10 games you really only need to take or contest one of the opponents objectives to win the game, not two. Survivability is key at this point, not numbers. Also relying on your AV10 open topped vehicles to be alive at the end of the game is a bad idea to begin with...

while 5 warp spiders put out impressive damage output, they are still 5 T3 3+ save most likely sitting in the open. They are easily removed T1~T2, and wont make their points back at all. Your just throwing points away with them unless you are super careful, and most opponents worth their salt will know what they do and dispact of them quickly.

A wraithknight is an impressive target, but is it really worth 240 points??? that is atleast 2 more threats for you to field, if not more. Also compare that the ravager and the WK have the same damage output against your most common AV (AV11) and the ravager gets increased use out of your Seertaire because of having 3 shots instead of 2. Personally I dont think they are worth their points value. If you have good luck with them, then enjoy, but everytime Ive fielded one Ive always wished I spent those points elsewhere.

As for lack of AA, how do you deal with 3x Helldrakes that arent slowed down by manuvuering or 4+ Nightscythes that there are just so many on the field to dodge??? Manuvuering gets you away from 1 or two normal planes, but when the ones that are mostly taken (storm ravens, vendettas) can hover, helldrakes dont care (vector strike + 360 degree torrent flamer) or just flood the board (CronAir) It just doesnt cut it. OFc your meta could not have to deal with these things, but sooner or later you will have too, and this stance about AA is a bad one. Just letting you know...

As for your changes, why Duke??? He is a trap of a character. You could easily get an Archon for cheaper (who has better stats btw) and his poison really doesnt help that much statistically. Add in that you arent running a ton of wych units, so his drug re-roll result doesnt work either. Baron atleast gave you +1 to go first, and a rock solid assault unit. Why go the more expensive route???

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Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Mostly Competitive Dark/Eldar List, 1850 critique appreciated   Mostly Competitive Dark/Eldar List, 1850 critique appreciated I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 17 2013, 16:54

Your bike argument is valid and I'll probably run them in a squad of 6.

The warp spiders are still in the play test stage. So I'll take a few games to decide.

AA is just a glaring weakness for us, I mean I can take a crimson Hunter but would that really solve 3 turkies or cron air? I suppose I could invest tons of points into a bastion with dark reaper exarch with a fast shot icarus and so on (and I have considered it) but it still feels like tons of point spent on Sub-optimal anti air.

As for the duke he comes out slightly cheaper then a beast pack/baron allowing me to mantle the seer and NS my vehicles. I'll fiddle some more as I honestly do want to field the pack.

Again thank you for the feed back

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Mostly Competitive Dark/Eldar List, 1850 critique appreciated   Mostly Competitive Dark/Eldar List, 1850 critique appreciated I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 19 2013, 15:22

I find that the thing with our AA isnt made to beat an opponent's AA, but to force theirs to do minimal damage. Take for example 3 Helldrakes (or 4 now due to the black legion coming out), bringing out a crimson hunter makes them ponder wheither to flame another unit and get shot out of the air, or go back into reserves. This makes it a tough choice for them, as your basically trading one of their most high damage output machines for almost no gain. CSM rely on helldrakes to do most of the heavy lifting, and by putting that at risk, most people would rather just fly back into reserves. Once in reserves that means that they only have at most 3 rounds of the helldrake damaging something, thats alot better than at most 5.

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fuhrmaaj
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PostSubject: Re: Mostly Competitive Dark/Eldar List, 1850 critique appreciated   Mostly Competitive Dark/Eldar List, 1850 critique appreciated I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 20 2013, 16:26

If you're looking for AA, the Warp Spiders do a decent job against flyers when Guided but you're probably going to want to double the size of that squad.
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PostSubject: Re: Mostly Competitive Dark/Eldar List, 1850 critique appreciated   Mostly Competitive Dark/Eldar List, 1850 critique appreciated I_icon_minitime

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