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PostSubject: shardcarbine   shardcarbine I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 12 2013, 15:03

I made a quick search on the forum about the shardcarbines (maybe not enough) and I was wondering if it is worth equiping trueborn with those.

Possible configurations could be:
9 trueborn with shardcarbine in a raider - 27 splinter shots at 18" range
9 scourges with shardcarbines - 27 splinter shots at 18" range
5 trueborn with shardcarbine in a venom with dual canon - 27 splinter shots at 18" range
|___ the venom seems to be the good choice, regarding cost and long range versatility + a free flickerfield

The 18" range is a real problem...

so... shardcarbine, yay or nay ?

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PostSubject: Re: shardcarbine   shardcarbine I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 12 2013, 15:45

Within a transport it has a 24" threat range. The dual-cannon Venom is a natural choice, but I could see the case made for a Dissie-armed Raider. You get extra AI punch from the AP2 shots and make the transport less of a target priority in mech-heavy environments. (My local meta is highly mechanized)
It is a fun unit to use as a reserve unit if you are playing against drop pod Space Marines in your own deployment zone. I've only used the unit a half a dozen times and have found it to be fun and effective.

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PostSubject: Re: shardcarbine   shardcarbine I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 12 2013, 19:46

It is a terribly overpriced weapon. Trueborn with Shard Carbines are a waste unless you plan to get them into assault, which is equally foolish. Scourges don't want to get close to the enemy, and frequently carry AT weapons that do not mesh with the Shard Carbines.

The onyl unit with Shard Carbines I would even consider would be the Ssylth in a 3 Ssylth build, and that isn't a compliment.
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PostSubject: Re: shardcarbine   shardcarbine I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 12 2013, 20:03

Scourges give you extra movement and extend the threat. Lots of fun, and I have used them, but given their cost and utility with other weapons, as False Son mentioned, I am still not convinced that this is the best primary use for them.
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PostSubject: Re: shardcarbine   shardcarbine I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 12 2013, 20:34

I've used Trueborn with Shardcarbines quite effectively. Particularly good at popping out from behind buildings and putting down a lot of fire. Good fun in Kill Team events. Just don't mix long-range AT with them or your unit has an identity crisis.

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PostSubject: Re: shardcarbine   shardcarbine I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 12 2013, 21:36

I used the Duke with a deep striking raider full of shardcarbine/splinter cannon Trueborn and had some pretty decent results with them but they are expensive and can be neutralised fairly easily so use with care.

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PostSubject: Re: shardcarbine   shardcarbine I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 12 2013, 22:28

@Evil Space Elves wrote:
Within a transport it has a 24"  threat range. The dual-cannon Venom is a natural choice, but I could see the case made for a Dissie-armed Raider. You get extra AI punch from the AP2 shots and make the transport less of a target priority in mech-heavy environments. (My local meta is highly mechanized)
It is a fun unit to use as a reserve unit if you are playing against drop pod Space Marines  in your own deployment zone. I've only used the unit a half a dozen times and have found it to be fun and effective.
+1 I love the unit. It may not be the most point efficient unit, but as ESE sad, they are fun to use, and have a good to high damage potential. Combined with the duke they are even more fun. I use 7 with carbines and two with SC in a raider. Sometimes with the duke are with the Dracon.

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PostSubject: Re: shardcarbine   shardcarbine I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 13 2013, 14:25

Thank you all for the feedback / advice.
As a conclusion: shardcarbine fun but not competitive.
Atm I play for fun, I'll give them a try with the Duke on board a deep striking raider Wink

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PostSubject: Re: shardcarbine   shardcarbine I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 13 2013, 15:25

I've seen trueborn with carbines and cannons joined by the duke used to some pretty great effect. If you go that route definitely include the cannon, not so much for the extra shot but for the extra range. In 6th you can only actually cause wounds as far into an enemy unit as the longest range of the weapons firing. With a cannon you can stretch the carbines 18" range to the near edge of an enemy unit and the wound pool will likely extend to the entire target unit due to the cannon's 36" range. At least that's how I understand it.
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PostSubject: Re: shardcarbine   shardcarbine I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 13 2013, 15:46

@agosyb wrote:
With a cannon you can stretch the carbines 18" range to the near edge of an enemy unit and the wound pool will likely extend to the entire target unit due to the cannon's 36" range. At least that's how I understand it.
Seems bizarre but with the crappy wording of the FAQ that is indeed correct. As long as a model is within range of any weapon in the firing unit then all weapons in the firing unit can kill that model, even if they are out of range.

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PostSubject: Re: shardcarbine   shardcarbine I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 13 2013, 16:53

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@agosyb wrote:
With a cannon you can stretch the carbines 18" range to the near edge of an enemy unit and the wound pool will likely extend to the entire target unit due to the cannon's 36" range. At least that's how I understand it.
Seems bizarre but with the crappy wording of the FAQ that is indeed correct. As long as a model is within range of any weapon in the firing unit then all weapons in the firing unit can kill that model, even if they are out of range.
I couldn't in all conscience do that, legal or not.

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PostSubject: Re: shardcarbine   shardcarbine I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 13 2013, 18:12

@Skyboard surfer wrote:
I couldn't in all conscience do that, legal or not.
You may as well, it's an accepted use of the rule, and nowhere near as mindbendingly stupid as some rule 'interpretations' I've come across.

Before GW added this to the FAQ, you would have been able to remove models from a unit that were 'out of range' so long as you were in range of at least one when you fired, and nobody had to question their own conscience about it! It's just now you can only do it if you have a longer-ranged weapon mixed into the unit. Sure, it still needs a bit of clarification, but it is better.

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PostSubject: Re: shardcarbine   shardcarbine I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 13 2013, 19:10

FAQ / april 2013:
Code:
Q: When making a Shooting attack against a unit, can Wounds from the Wound Pool be allocated to models that were not within range any of the shooting models when To Hit rolls were made (i.e. half the targeted model are in the shooting models’ range, and half are not)? (p15)
A: No.
When I read that, it is quite confusing to me. The canon is able to wound models in the back of the target unit, but the carbins are only able to wound the one and single model they are in range with ... but wounds should be allocated to the closest model first (BRB p15). So I don't understand. Maybe I am missing something.

In that case it would be fair to roll separately the carbine shots (which can only kill the single model), and the canon shots (which can be dispatched normally among the other models in the unit)

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