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 Why do Dark Eldar go to war? No, really?

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Kinnay
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PostSubject: Why do Dark Eldar go to war? No, really?   Why do Dark Eldar go to war? No, really? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 04 2011, 13:36

Dark Eldar are pirates and raiders. They specialise on swift and brutal attacks - and even swifter retreats. Why would they want to engage in a major scale battle? Why would they even want to fight another race? I mean, they seem to be quite sufficiently occupied with themselves: They are completely safe in the Webway - no one really gets in there - and mostly concerned with their own politics.

They don't need to defend nothing. They don't need to win territory. They don't have any real foes against whom they need to constantly war.

Why then would they have all that war machinery of theirs? Why do they have super heavies, why all that super destructive potential? Why don't they simply attack weak imperial planets and get all their slaves from there? Is it really out of boredom and arrogance?

And with Comorragh being so insanely huge, why doesn't Asdrubael Vect recognise the fact, that any attack of all Kabals at the same time against a target of their choice would leave it absolutely, totally and utterly destroyed?

Speaking of this, why don't they open up a Webway portal and invade Terra? Destroy the homeworld of any Space Marine Chapter?

Hmm...

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Sedarofe
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PostSubject: Re: Why do Dark Eldar go to war? No, really?   Why do Dark Eldar go to war? No, really? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 04 2011, 16:22

Read the fluff of what happened with Vect's Rise to power. In it, a few space Marine battle barges actually tore up a good chunk of Commorragh, and it was only 2-3 space marine chapters. Invading Terra would be like the Normandy landings with sending in troops with muskets on row boats: not that bright.

Technically, the Dark Eldar do NOT wage war, they take and pillage what they can, but "go to war" as you say, when the allotted time runs over. Oddly, a fan fic covers this quite well in Epic: raiders where *spoilers*

the Dark eldar try to excavate an eldar titan to make tormentors from, but get side lined by Imperial guard and Necrons.

*end spoilers*

And yes, they do need to defend territory, from -OTHER- Dark Eldar.

Actually, to comment earlier, they arent 100% safe in the webway. besides, stealing millions of unguarded souls of the imperium probably only taste like wheat bread, eating (poor lack of translation) only that gets dull over a few centuries, and no Dark Eldar likes to eat the same oats all the time...
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PostSubject: Re: Why do Dark Eldar go to war? No, really?   Why do Dark Eldar go to war? No, really? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 04 2011, 18:05

@Kinnay wrote:
Why then would they have all that war machinery of theirs? Why do they have super heavies, why all that super destructive potential? Why don't they simply attack weak imperial planets and get all their slaves from there? Is it really out of boredom and arrogance?
...
And with Comorragh being so insanely huge, why doesn't Asdrubael Vect recognise the fact, that any attack of all Kabals at the same time against a target of their choice would leave it absolutely, totally and utterly destroyed?

Speaking of this, why don't they open up a Webway portal and invade Terra? Destroy the homeworld of any Space Marine Chapter?

Hmm...
You might as well ask why humanity has so much military might. The war machinery is for use against each other as well.
As for why they don't simply target agri-worlds and such, there are two reasons as I see it. First, the main attraction of the raids(for the individual warrior) is the chance to drink in suffering on a massive scale. Simply herding terrified farmers into bulk transports is efficient, but then there is no draw or thrill for the Kabalites. The Haemonculi Covens I could see doing just that, but they are surrounded every day by obscene amounts of suffering. They would have no need to drink in the carnage of a battlefield.
Second, the other Kabals are watching. The main attraction to raids for the Dark Eldar as a whole is the chance to prove their innate superiority to the lesser species of the galaxy. A Kabal that only struck at the very weakest would be seen as unambitious or insecure in their greatness. Either way, a sign to other Kabals that the Kabal is ripe for the picking.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that if Vect organized even most of the Kabals to take Terra, I think Terra would fall. But even the Supreme Overlord does not control the Kabals. He would need to build a massive confederation of Kabals, place the Kabal of the Black Heart into massive debts to pretty much everyone in Commoragh, and more or less signal to everyone trying to undermine his rule in the Dark City that he and his allies are away. To say nothing of trying to enforce his battle plan when entire Kabals get ground up by Terra's defences.

It just comes down to the Dark Eldar striking when and where they please. The fortifications of Fortress Monasteries are more or less built to rob Dark Eldar of their natural strengths. Why bother when you can bleed them dry by forcing them to over extend their fleet, and when they are all but extinct, allow them to make more Space Marines? The galaxy teems with the masses of Humanity; it is practically impossible to over-farm them. The Space Marines are a special treat and are handled as such.

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PostSubject: Re: Why do Dark Eldar go to war? No, really?   Why do Dark Eldar go to war? No, really? I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 05 2011, 19:05

The Kabals would probably never all ally like that unless the whole of Commorragh was in peril, and even then they would constantly be searching for ways in which to exploit and/or kill one another.

As for the military might, for one, they need to defend against each other, Kabals often battle each other inside Commorragh, waging war between the spires etc.

The other reason is that, well, what's more fun, taking helpless civilians, or inspiring terror and desperation in someone who previously thought himself a stalwart defender? They do everything for the thrill, and darting through gunfire and tearing the heart out of your opponent as they forsake their precious ideals for pure despair would be almost incomprehensibly satisfying. Then there's the Wych cults. As it says in their codex entry, the Succubus seeks out the most skilled enemy she can find, and proceeds to show off as much as possible, darting around their blows and dismembering them in horrific ways before administering the coupe de grace. It's all about feeling great and causing the most drastic emotions in the enemy, and although going to a village and taking all of it's terrified occupants would be fairly funny to them, I doubt anything would quite beat the satisfaction, feeling of superiority, and sheer thrill of cutting through an enemy force and showing just why they're the best.

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PostSubject: Re: Why do Dark Eldar go to war? No, really?   Why do Dark Eldar go to war? No, really? I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 06 2011, 05:48

The Dark Eldar don't go to war if they can help it. They raid and pillage, but a protracted ground war isn't really their thing.

Nowithstanding the near constant Kabal warfare in the Dark City, though thats more like gang war than "our" method of warfare.

In regards to attacking Terra, I doubt even a fully mustered Commorragh could win. If Terra comes under siege the whole of the Imperium's military might (barring certain forces which can't withdraw) would be zooming straight to Terra, not to mention the massive amount of ships and men that Battlefleet Solar has under its control. Consider that it took a full half of the Imperium's forces to breach the Imperial Palace's walls during the Heresy. An open attack on Terra just ins't worth it.

Besides, why would they? The Imperium is the meatshield of the Eldar. When everyone is going after the humans the Eldar can go about pillaging at their leisure. Remember, its the Imperium who's been holding back Chaos for the last 10,000 years.

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PostSubject: Re: Why do Dark Eldar go to war? No, really?   Why do Dark Eldar go to war? No, really? I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 31 2011, 01:02

I'm a Newb to Warhammer 40k, so bear with me! Razz
Why doesn't a small task force of Dark Eldar open a portal directly into the room within the imperial palace which contains the golden throne and destroy it? Wouldn't that effectively destroy the Imperium?

EDIT- Though I agree it wouldn't be in their best interest.

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PostSubject: Re: Why do Dark Eldar go to war? No, really?   Why do Dark Eldar go to war? No, really? I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 31 2011, 01:10

1)You can only open a portal if there's a branch of the webway leading to where the portal is. The portal in the Throne Room is filled with Daemons. And the Throne Room is full of Custodes.
2) There's no reason to. The Imperium is the meat shield of the galaxy. If the Imperium dies, the Eldar will be next. Also, the Imperium provides most of the slaves and stolen goods. No Imperium= no body to steal stuff (easily) from.
3) the imperium isn't a threat to Commorragh. Theyre safe and sound in the webway.

Eldar of both kinds benefit more from having the Imperium around than they would without it. Dark Eldar are "evil", not stupid.

Now, lets butt they CAN kill the Emperor. We still don't really know if it's him or just the thousands of psykers killed a day that power the astronomicon. Hell, we don't really know what or how the Throne works. So "maybe".

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GrenAcid
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PostSubject: Re: Why do Dark Eldar go to war? No, really?   Why do Dark Eldar go to war? No, really? I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 01 2011, 01:09

Quote :
. The portal in the Throne Room is filled with Daemons
Where did you get this bit?? I havent read all HH books but all I can remember is that Magnus the Red broke Emperors bariers around Palace and let demons in(he was trying to send warnig to Dad) but there is nothing about webway.

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PostSubject: Re: Why do Dark Eldar go to war? No, really?   Why do Dark Eldar go to war? No, really? I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 01 2011, 01:17

The webway portal bellow the Throne is the human portion of the webway, or at least the part the the Big E was exploring ( I know there's more sources than just Atlas Infernal, but its what comes to mind to me right now). When Magnus broke the barriers around the palace, that also affected the barriers of that portion of the webway. This is more of my interpretation of that than dead fact. I'm not sure if its actually written (not just implied) that that area is full of warp nastyness.

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PostSubject: Re: Why do Dark Eldar go to war? No, really?   Why do Dark Eldar go to war? No, really? I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 01 2011, 09:58

If I recall correctly, the "Imperial Webway" was a section of the Webway damaged in the fall that the Emperor was trying to reconnect with the rest of the Webway, allowing him to use it to move his troops around the galaxy without using Warp travel. The wards were needed to reconnect the section the the rest of the Webway and. When the wards broke, Warpstuff came pouring in from the breach and Daemons came out of the portal into the Imperial Palace. They were eventually driven back by all the Custodes guarding the throne room, but more would've kept comin through if the Emperor had no sealed the portal.

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PostSubject: Re: Why do Dark Eldar go to war? No, really?   Why do Dark Eldar go to war? No, really? I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 01 2011, 12:46

No, it was a piece of Emperor-made Webway, which he tried to crudely stitch on to the existing Webway. When Magnus sent his message, it fell apart like the scrapheap held together by spit and rubber bands that it was, and opened both Terra and the Webway to the Warp. It's possibly one of my least favourite bits of the new Heresy background.

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PostSubject: Re: Why do Dark Eldar go to war? No, really?   Why do Dark Eldar go to war? No, really? I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 01 2011, 22:49

Great read thx for answer....Is this bit writen in "Fall of Prospero"?

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PostSubject: Re: Why do Dark Eldar go to war? No, really?   Why do Dark Eldar go to war? No, really? I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 02 2011, 10:54

Yes, but originally it was added in the Collected Visions book, as was the changing of the Trial of Magnus and what happened to Fulgrim. In addition to the terrible writing, it was a pretty damned horrible book. Even the artwork wasn't usually that great. Plus, my favourite Legion, the Night Lords, got exactly 3 pieces of artwork in a book 415 pages long, and not a single depiction of their Primarch.

It didn't so much "fill in the gaps" as "expand on what we already knew in ridiculous directions, add in pointless and nonsensical retcons, and add in a number of idiotic new events". Now, we're left with the HH team trying to desperately piece together books around some of the decisions, like the fact that Librarians still exist, despite the fact that the Emperor outright banned psykers in the Astartes, while he was also saying that the most dangerous thing in the galaxy was an untrained psyker (so yeah, let's go fill my elite, expensive Legions with the things, and not even mark them out! Genius!)

*ahem* Sorry. As you can see, I don't really like that book. Lots of artwork for the Space Wolves, Luna Wolves, Ultramarines, Blood Angels, Word Bearers and the Cult Legion, bugger-all for everyone else.

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PostSubject: Re: Why do Dark Eldar go to war? No, really?   Why do Dark Eldar go to war? No, really? I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 02 2011, 21:51

Night Lords are soo cool...its sad they didnt have good rules(weakest in 4ed dex imo) its so unfair.
Sorry for of top, over and out.

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