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 Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?

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Zehra
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PostSubject: Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?    Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 04 2011, 04:25

I mean is he Trueborn or was he born from People Jars? I know he was a slave and a child when the Fall occured, but aren't Dark Eldar born from tubes full grown?
Also, this is an odd question but are Dark Eldar born from tubes sterile?
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PostSubject: Re: Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?    Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 04 2011, 04:54

Moving to Background.
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Zehra
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PostSubject: Re: Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?    Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 04 2011, 05:15

Ok, I wasn't sure where it belonged...
Thanks!!!
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Torpedo Vegas
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PostSubject: Re: Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?    Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 04 2011, 05:23

I'd say he isn't a trueborn, or at least isn't recognized as one. Remeber, he was a slave long before being the Supreme Overlord of Commorragh.

I find it more likely he was a test tube baby like most of the Dark Eldar are.

To answer your second question, no idea, and I haven't found anything mentioning it in my archives.


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Zehra
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PostSubject: Re: Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?    Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 04 2011, 05:26

@Torpedo Vegas wrote:
I'd say he isn't a trueborn, or at least isn't recognized as one. Remeber, he was a slave long before being the Supreme Overlord of Commorragh.

I find it more likely he was a test tube baby like most of the Dark Eldar are.

To answer your second question, no idea, and I haven't found anything mentioning it in my archives.


Aren't test tube Dark Eldar full grown when they come out? And Vect and the codexes I've read clearly states that he was a child when the Fall happened. I was just recently informed he was Trueborn, but I wanted to know, since I'm a fangirl of his. XD
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PostSubject: Re: Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?    Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 04 2011, 05:35

Given that 40k fluff is always cannon unless it isn't, I can't say if old fluff is no longer cannon, but from Codex:Dark Eldar (5e): (pg 20) M32: "A slave known only as Vect vows that he shall rule the Dark City even if it takes all eternity to do so." and Codex Dark Eldar (5e), page 55 "Vect began life as a low-class underling sold into slavery as a child."

We don't know if he was born before the Fall or not.

In regards to the tube babies, I'd say "it depends". While Haemunculi are capable of cloning a full grown DEldar Warrior from a finger, its never said that dark eldar "parents" don't raise their "kids" from a young age.

Keep in mind that a full grown test tube baby (not a regrown Warrior) would still only have the experiences of a baby (so none).


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Zehra
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PostSubject: Re: Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?    Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 04 2011, 05:42

Ok, I was just wondering, so it can be babies and full grown adults is what you're saying from the tubes. Would a child from a tube Dark Eldar and a Trueborn be a half-breed then?
And I just got an image of walking into a room full of little babies in tubes.
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Torpedo Vegas
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PostSubject: Re: Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?    Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 04 2011, 05:45

A tube eldar and a trueborn don't have any differences other than one coming from a tube and another from an actual mother.

Trueborn are "pure" but they aren't actually any better than a tube baby. Its like how 300 years ago a Duke's baby would be "better" than the dung eating peasants' baby.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?    Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 04 2011, 05:52

Ah, ok, just been wondering, because Asdrubael VEct is a Tubeborn and has a child with a Trueborn I was wondering if that made the child a half-breed. And I was told that Tubeborn aren't as smart and stuff like Trueborn...
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PostSubject: Re: Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?    Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 04 2011, 09:31

Vect has been around since before the fall, so he is most definitely trueborn.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?    Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 04 2011, 10:48

@Radium wrote:
Vect has been around since before the fall, so he is most definitely trueborn.
You're pretty sure?
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PostSubject: Re: Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?    Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 04 2011, 17:39

@Zehra wrote:
@Radium wrote:
Vect has been around since before the fall, so he is most definitely trueborn.
You're pretty sure?
That bit of fluff comes from The Torturer's Tale, which for a long time(pre-5 Ed. Codex) was the best bit of insight we got into the inner workings of the Dark Eldar and of Vect in particular. It fits fairly well into the current fluff as long as you can stomach the idea of Slave!Vect surviving five thousand years before coming to power at all.
I think it's still canon, but that is more of a personal attachment to a good short story than anything I can back up.

Games-workshop has been kind enough to re-post it for download here:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=14300030a

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PostSubject: Re: Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?    Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 04 2011, 19:17

Trueborn? Possibly. Highborn? No.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?    Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 04 2011, 19:53

Vect was born before fall, eldar at that time didnt need tubs for babies, so he is trueborn.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?    Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?  I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 05 2011, 04:20

Ok thanks for answering that question!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?    Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?  I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 16 2012, 04:03

doesnt he claim to be trueborn and saw the fall of the eldar?

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PostSubject: Re: Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?    Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?  I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 16 2012, 07:51

He could lie.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?    Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?  I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 16 2012, 09:03

@ Oberonson

I think the consensus is that all Eldar prior to the fall - or that lived through it - would be trueborn as the Haemonculi had yet to start properly mass producing test tube Dark Eldar.

However it's also agreed he's unlikely to be Highborn as he was a Slave according to the codex and prior sources.

There is the slight chance he was Highborn and then sold into slavery at childhood as the quote by Torpedo above (and from the codex pg55) implies.
"Vect began life as a low-class underling sold into slavery as a child."
It's a bit tenuous and caught up on some very specific interpretation of single words, but you could probably analyse the quote and pull out that he might not have been born low - Commorraghan polotics could easily handle highborn being sold into slavery by family members (I'm thinking pre-Renaissance european Court - or Roman Republic).

As to whether he saw the fall or not, the above quote is cited at c.M32, the Fall was only a millennia earlier. It's possible, as is the chance of him lieing. I don't imagine slaves traditionally live for 1000 years in Commorragh, unless there's some specific reason - Vect being Vect might be enough of a reason....
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PostSubject: Re: Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?    Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?  I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 16 2012, 11:56

Regarding the infertility, I can't see any reason why it'd happen. They're simply a foetus that got removed from the womb incredibly early, and continued to develop in an artificial womb. The only difference between the two would be social, I can't see why there would be any physical difference.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?    Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?  I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 16 2012, 13:31

There are two versions. One is that he led the ones that escaped from Slaanesh. Number two, is lowly slave and schemer. Both seems to be from his lips. I'd flip the famous coin to see which I would believe.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?    Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?  I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 16 2012, 16:02

I would have to agree with Beaviz on this one. Personally I believe Vect is one of the original Dark Eldar, but I am also a old blood and personally hate the Rise of Vect story as it makes DE look like weenies (I mean come on... 10 space marines and the armies one of the original "3 Kings" or Commagorah cant get rid of them!!! It reaks of "SM are super special awesome" to me... and thats sad coming from Phil Kelly...

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PostSubject: Re: Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?    Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?  I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 16 2012, 16:16

Yeah it make it sort of like, the Dark Eldars of old was quite retarded. Much akin to my earlier suggestion of not asking what the kicker is when contacting a Planetary Governor in order to "protect" a hive, and been given the okay. Not to mention I personally dislike the god-like Space Marine-descriptions. They seem so propagandish, which is a horrible thing.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?    Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?  I_icon_minitimeSat Feb 18 2012, 21:39

I'd say Vect was born a slave (current Codex, Torturer's Tale) and saw the Fall; he makes something of a fuss about how a mere lowly slave bested all the noble Houses, so he isn't from noble stock himself - he's a commoner Smile

That said I would tend to agree that the jar-baby technology (hmm...Tubeborn ... nice one) only came into prominence after the Fall, as a response to the need for vast quantities of troops. I think it did say somewhere, I'm not sure which Eldar Codex, that the pre-Fall Eldar did not need to fight unless they wanted to (due to having machines of war and suchlike) so vast armies would not be necessary, back then. Which though not proof, precisely, does tend for me to confirm that he is what later became known as Trueborn.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?    Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?  I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 15 2012, 23:35

I believe that it depends what fluff you are going off.
If you prefer the original codex, like I do, then i would say that he is Trueborn as he saw the skies of the Eldar Empire be torn asunder by the twisting madness of the Eye of Terror. He was a child, intended to be a sacrifice (Torturer's tale) and so if he were of true, full blood the i believe he would have been a more satisfying victim.
However, if you go off of the fifth edition and see him a slave who rose up against the odds then i would say he is only a half-blood. If he was born into slave society then I would believe he would have been extracted from the womb, as a slave driver would lose wealth if he lost slaves through pregnancy.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?    Is Asdrubael Vect a Trueborn?  I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 18 2012, 13:15

I'm pretty sure that he didn't exist when the fall happened. The fall is at least 10000 years ago, sources putting it between M29 and M31. So Vect has to be at least 10000 years old to have witnessed it.
As we know, the older a dark eldar gets, the more bloodshed is needed to keep his/her soul. In the book 'Path of the renegade', the Archon Kraillach is pictured as an old dark eldar ageing significantly during the travel from his spires to a wych arena. To be able to sustain his soul, he has to spend a lot of his kabals' treasure to get enough slaughter and pain - and his kabal is known to be rich. His age is given with 889 years. So I don't think that Asdrubael Vect can be any older then 2000 years at maximum. So his age is propaganda.
If he wasn't around during the fall, it is not clear if he is a trueborn or not.

The 'rise of Vect' story don't put SM to be godlike IMHO.
Vect lured a SM cruiser to Commoragh and made the nobles to apprehend this 'gift' from Vect. The close quarters in the ship made it nearly impossible for the dark eldar to clear the ship of the SM, since the hallways the SM hid themselves in were so small that neither speed nor number was of importantance in this fight. Later, Vect lured the rest of the SM chapter to liberate the cruiser from Commoragh. The SM set up a perimeter for a short time losing a significant part of the chapter. And the SM weren't simply overrun, because Vect assassinated the noble leaders defending Commoragh leading to disarray in the command structure and attacked the defenders loyal to their noble leaders from behind. To shame the noble houses even more, he let the crippled SM chapter escape with the cruiser.
This doesn't strike me as 'godlike, overpowered SM'.
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