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 Refusing a challenge but remaining in base contact

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El_Jairo
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PostSubject: Refusing a challenge but remaining in base contact   Refusing a challenge but remaining in base contact I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 31 2013, 11:55

Hi everyone,

I saw this trick in a bat rep so I went to look it up in the BRB.

Strangely I didn't find anything about moving the character that refuses the challenge out of melee combat.
It only says that it doesn't strike any blows and can't lend its Ld to the unit that phase.

Fluff-wise it puts all it's effort in evading the challenger's blows.

Now RAW, since the model is still in Base to Base, you can assign wounds to it. Even the wounds inflicted by the challenger, that is.

I am reading this wrong? Or is this just another loophole which got overlooked?

I would think they should have added "...can't strike any blows or take any saves at all this turn."

Even if you'r not in B2B you could transfer allocated wounds through it with LOS!. Unless they FAQ-ed it to only transfer to non character models (unless whole the unit comprises of characters)?

Personally I feel this is too much a RAW interpretation and I always played it that the challenge refuser moves 3" away from the enemy, preferable the challenger.
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Refusing a challenge but remaining in base contact   Refusing a challenge but remaining in base contact I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 31 2013, 12:27

As the one who used that trick in the battle report, I don't see a problem with it, it's not like it's an interpretation or bending the rules, it's follows the rules to the letter and is completely legal.

Think about it, if they added "can't strike any blows or be allocated any wounds" then the character would be unkillable if he refused the challenge, you could slaughter the whole unit but you wouldn't be able to hurt him. So how would you "fix" it?

From a "fluff" perspective just because he refused the challenge doesn't mean he can't get hit in the swirling melee if he's in the front rank (B2B).

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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
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PostSubject: Re: Refusing a challenge but remaining in base contact   Refusing a challenge but remaining in base contact I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 31 2013, 12:28

You can't allocate wounds from a challenge to a character that refused a challenge (BRB FAQ). They can only be allocated to models fighting the challenge.

You only move a model into base contact if you accept the challenge. If you refuse then you remain where you were and will pile in as normal but cannot strike blows. You can have wounds allocated to you as normal but not from the challenge (see above).

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DominicJ
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PostSubject: Re: Refusing a challenge but remaining in base contact   Refusing a challenge but remaining in base contact I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 31 2013, 13:12

Count you;ve missed the point.
Space marine captain and assault squad (with already dead sarge) charged by archon and incubi squad.

Archon challenges Captain
Captain refuses.
Archon kills marines
Captain takes saves on his storm shield
Incubi kill marines
Captain takes saves on his storm shield

Right?

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psych0Mantis
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PostSubject: Re: Refusing a challenge but remaining in base contact   Refusing a challenge but remaining in base contact I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 31 2013, 14:49

@DominicJ

According to RAW, unless I've missed something, that's correct.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Refusing a challenge but remaining in base contact   Refusing a challenge but remaining in base contact I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 31 2013, 15:37

@DominicJ wrote:
Count you;ve missed the point.
Space marine captain and assault squad (with already dead sarge) charged by archon and incubi squad.

Archon challenges Captain
Captain refuses.
Archon kills marines
Captain takes saves on his storm shield
Incubi kill marines
Captain takes saves on his storm shield

Right?

Sorry, the OP was a bit confusing. Yes, that's correct AFAIK.

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Refusing a challenge but remaining in base contact YhBv3Wk
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El_Jairo
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PostSubject: Re: Refusing a challenge but remaining in base contact   Refusing a challenge but remaining in base contact I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 01 2013, 23:00

My point is showed very nicely in Dominic's post.
The captain refuses to dish out blows with the Archon, instead he plays a meatshield for his assault squad.

It feels off to me.

My fix was not 100% loophole proof. You could just add instead: ... and takes only as last model saves in the next Fight Sub-Phase.

So yes you can kill him and no he can't help out his squad while he is cowering away from his challenger.

But RAW Dominic's explanation is on the money.
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PostSubject: Re: Refusing a challenge but remaining in base contact   Refusing a challenge but remaining in base contact I_icon_minitime

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