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 Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial?

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Eldritchwarmaster84
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PostSubject: Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial?   Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial? I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 26 2013, 15:47

Ive been using reavers with cluster caltrops and heat lances . I usually take them in groups of 6's. I would bladevane fire warriors and wipe out the entire unit. Now other people say they are garbage but they are not, just overpriced. Many people use them in battle reports and just equip them with HLs and an Arena Champion( don't know a viable reason why? Extra Ld?). They also use them to contest objectives. They Also just shoot the rifles then jump back. But im thinking if reavers have bladevane why not exploit it, thats what makes reavers and windrider eldar jetbikes different.


Last edited by Eldritchwarmaster84 on Mon Jul 29 2013, 17:03; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : To better understand the way of the dark eldar)
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial?   Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial? I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 26 2013, 16:25

I disagree that caltrops are rubbish. They are however overpriced, no question. They also encourage you to use your reavers solely for bladevane attacks, otherwise you're wasting the points you've spent on the caltrops.

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ligolski
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial?   Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial? I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 26 2013, 16:35

I run my mine the same way. I leave them in reserve and use them where I need them the most. I either go blow something up or mess up some squad. Last game I played they came in a wiped an entire deep struck storm trooper squad off the board (high point game thats why they were used). Unfortunately I got screwed over by rerolling cover saves via guard orders next turn, but i like my 6 bike squad to be versatile if I have the points.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial?   Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial? I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 26 2013, 16:39

The beautiful thing about reavers is they are a wild card unit, that can adapt to whatever your opponent throws at you. In that regard they can be aggressive, defensive and denial.

If your wanting tips and tricks on using reaver jetbikes, these battle reports (with pictures) might be useful:

BR17: The Black Buzzards VS Space Wolves
BR18: The Black Buzzards VS Ravenwing
BR19: The Black Buzzards VS CSM Triple Helldrake
BR20: The Black Buzzards VS Tyranids
BR21: The Black Buzzards VS New Tau
BR22: The Black Buzzards VS Tau (Rematch)
BR23: The Black Buzzards VS Tau Mech/Riptide
BR25: The Black Buzzards VS Tau Mass Broadsides
BR26: The Black Buzzards VS Eldar Mech
BR27: The Black Buzzards VS Blood Angels Mech

Hope that helps. Smile

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Gobsmakked
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial?   Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial? I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 26 2013, 17:43

This thread is better suited to the Tactics section, so .....
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Blind_Baku
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial?   Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial? I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 26 2013, 19:14

See Mush's comment, he's got a thing for Reavers. Also, I would argue the bladevane weapons are overprices for damage output, but that could be just due to their seemingly poor preformance for me (local meta is more SM equ).

I like sticking a champ in there, if I have things like Wyches or other units where the Reavers get to play a crowbar/hammer style roll (Wyches attach and tar pit a unit, next turn reavers run in, opponent breaks, hurray).

Should note that the Champ gets a lance/spear to help AP in CC
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Archon_Demetrious
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial?   Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial? I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 26 2013, 19:29

Honestly I been playing my reavers and it all depends who you going against... I usually blade vane something that's close to bein wiped out due to the random auto hits. But one unit is never enough need at least two. Since they have three rolls I try to use them depending how the battle goes( if I know people are deepstriking units I try to keep them in reserves)(or if people have a squishy unit behind a defense line I rather take them out first for a pain token since now wounds are allocated via finally position)
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial?   Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial? I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 26 2013, 19:37

I like how people keep noting the Caltrops are overpriced but demure from saying they're not good.
Hint: if something is overpriced - it better be blatantly good, or it is not good.

The Blaster and Dark Lance are overpriced when you consider what other armies pay for their anti-mech tools. That said, they are our only anti-mech tools of any worth, and are consequently still 'good' for us.

Caltrops are not that good.

Since the price of an additional bike is roughly equal to the Caltrops you're comparing 2d3 S4 attacks versus 1d6 S6 attacks. Yeah...the 1d6 is a bit better across the board as far as inflicting damage - unless you shoot or end up in assault. Also the extra bike increases survivability of the unit. Also, it's not like the 1d6 is exactly blowing it out of the water as better in inflicting damage, indeed, versus >T3 models the regular vanes actually do better. All the S6 gets you versus T4 models is approximately +1 wound (and actually it's a bit less than that)

Versus T5+ models it's better...but you're actually better off shooting those anyway, and in that case the +1RJB will serve you better.

If your unit is shot up the +1 RJB unit will run less risk of loosing its damage output when Bladevaning - making it a tougher unit.

If you assault or get assaulted the +1 RJB also increases your damage output.

So, literally, the only thing the Caltrops help with (and, again, not by much) is when bladevaning MEQ or Orks. That's it. Yes, there are a lot of MEQ armies out there, but last I checked Tau, Eldar, and IG were sort of big in the tournament scene, and not all MEQ tournament lists are exactly swamped in infantry you need to kill.

So...at that point, why bother? Yes, it's a good upgrade if you have already maxed your squad and want it to be even more killy and have the points to spare - but besides that I really think it's a garbage upgrade.

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Archon_Demetrious
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial?   Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial? I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 26 2013, 20:24

I differ if you using the catrops you shouldn't b in combat you main quest for them is line breaker and harrassment. Now if you pick blasters or even heat lance you want usually 2 so that 6 models but serious why not just use trueborn with dark lances it's much cheaper has range as you 6man heat lance...

Now to answer warmaster question people put a champ with their heat lance unit due to the once you pop a vehicle they usually get shot up and then assualted so having some type of ccw and ld 9 to fit the roll of hopefully dying while trying to take out 1 or people with them
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Trystis
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial?   Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial? I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 26 2013, 23:32

Reavers with blasters or heat lances are more versatile than true born or reavers with cluster caltrops. You can zoom across the board and bladevane then use your mobility to get the side or rear of their tanks. You can also use them to negate cover saves. Then you can use the move in the assault phase to reposition further away or out of sight.

For me the key to reavers has been to pre-measure basically everything so you don't end up in rapid fire or assault range.
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False Son
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial?   Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 29 2013, 16:16

@Eldritchwarmaster84 wrote:
Ive been using reavers with cluster caltrops and heat lances . I usually take them in groups of 6's. I would bladevane fire warriors and wipe out the entire unit. Now other people say they are garbage but they are not, just overpriced. Many people use them in battle reports and just equip them with HLs and an Arena Champion( don't know a viable reason why? Extra Ld?).

Yes, the +1 Ld. Any unit that costs that much needs the extra Ld, especially if they fall back 3D6 as jetbikes do. Also, the largest gap in % on 2D6 is the difference between 7 and 8. Lossing combat by 1 and needing a 7 sucks. Not to mention, they can challenge, taking all the damage onto themselves that would otherwise whipe out the unit, allowing them to flee. I still think there is merit to a Power Maul for charging those tanks with the 1 Hull Point left. It can get up to S7 with Combat Drugs and 2 Pain Tokens.

Quote :
also use them to contest objectives. They Also just shoot the rifles then jump back. But im think if reavers have bladevane why not exploit it, thats what makes reavers and windrider eldar jetbikes different.

The strength of RJBs is that they do all of these things. Playing them one way over another is a matter of preference. But, there are situations where bladevanes will work better for you, like hitting units behind LoS blocking cover. The trick, IMO is knowing how to use the various strengths of RJBs effectively. Heck, there are even situations where throwing them into assault is a good idea. We are very fortunate to have a unit like RJBs that can switch off in mid game and do what we want them to do, from tank hunting to denial to bladevanes, assault or performing a Trapped! manuever. RJBs are our Swiss Army Knife.
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Balisong
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial?   Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 29 2013, 21:36

FYI: I find that they are great Assassination Units with their blade-vanes.

As the wound allocation works from where the end up, you can easily use them to allocate wounds to Characters that people typically stick in the rear of units.
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial?   Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial? I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 30 2013, 19:15

Quote :
The strength of RJBs is that they do all of these things.

Yeah, and also, the main strenght of Reavers is that the enemy know they can do all those things, that they can assault, that they have melta, that they are right there.

I'd rather want them to shoot T4 3+ FnP model then anything else.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial?   Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial? I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 30 2013, 19:34

They are a great Terror unit too. They cannot be ignored, and if kept in reserve they can strike anywhere on the board.

Fear is a great way of controlling your opponents movement.

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Latest Report: BR4: The Repugnant Ramblers Vs Imperial Knights - 1250pts
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DEfan
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial?   Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial? I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 31 2013, 09:46

For me, getting a 5 or a 6 for generating bladevane attacks seems to be more common than an AP roll!

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kiblams
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial?   Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial? I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 04 2013, 11:31

This weekend for the first time I got to use the unit of 9 Reavers properly (previously reserves had failed etc) and I was blown away at how aggressive and damaging the unit can be.

I was able to start them on the board as the terrain was dense (played at Warhammer World on their ruined city board) so I could hide them and not worry about reserve rolls failing me again. First turn I turbo boosted over a predator and the Bladevanes (left the caltrops off this time) on rear armour wrecked it and left them behind line of sight blocking terrain at my opponents table edge, then turn two I hopped over the wall to heat lance a squad of terminators off the board that my Razorwing had reduced to 2.

Very happy with how it went, though I fear my opponent may be a little inexperienced in his model placement so I will need to get in more games to make my decision properly.
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial?   Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial? I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 04 2013, 11:45

@kiblams wrote:
First turn I turbo boosted over a predator and the Bladevanes (left the caltrops off this time) on rear armour wrecked it

Sadly bladevanes and caltrops can't target vehicles. Sad

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Latest Report: BR4: The Repugnant Ramblers Vs Imperial Knights - 1250pts
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kiblams
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial?   Reaver Jetbikes: Agressive, Defensive or Denial? I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 04 2013, 12:06

@Mushkilla wrote:
@kiblams wrote:
First turn I turbo boosted over a predator and the Bladevanes (left the caltrops off this time) on rear armour wrecked it

Sadly bladevanes and caltrops can't target vehicles. Sad

Ah crap! lol. thanks for the heads up, back to the drawing board and time to grovel to my opponent too Smile
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