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 Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k

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El_Jairo
Exort1
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Exort1
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PostSubject: Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k   Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 26 2013, 11:20

Trying to make this list as competitive as possible.
So here it is, if there's anything you think needs tweaking/changing please let me know.

HQ:


Baron Sathonyx
Farseer on Jetbike


Troops:


5x Warriors (Blaster) in Venom (2x SC)
5x Warriors (Blaster) in Venom (2x SC)
5x Warriors (Blaster) in Venom (2x SC)
5x Dire Avengers in Wave Serpant (Scatter Laser/Shuriken Canon)


Fast Attack:


4x Beastmasters, 5x Khymaera, 6x Razorwing Flocks
5x Warp Spiders


Heavy Support:


Ravager (3x DL)
Ravager (3x DL)
3x War Walkers (2x Bright Lance each)

Total - 1503 pts


The questions I've been asking myself are:

- Should I remove the Warp Spiders for a Ravager? (I think Warp Spiders are great but I feel it reduces the alpha-strike potential since they won't come in before turn 2)

- I like the Wave Serpant for the alpha-strike synergy with DE but are Windriders a better choice for the mandatory troops?

- Should I even play the beastpack? Maybe remove the Beasts/Spiders to add more Venoms/Ravagers for better alpha-strike?


Last edited by Exort1 on Sat Jul 27 2013, 18:26; edited 1 time in total
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El_Jairo
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PostSubject: Re: Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k   Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 26 2013, 12:38

I Would change the ratio of khymera and flocks to 2:1. There's too much St6+ shooting that needs to be soaked.
I wouldn't remove the beasts. They are your only melee unit.
My guess is that the farseer joins the beast so he could bless them.

I haven't played warp spiders but I doubt 5 have enough impact so changing them for a ravager makes sence. Long range AT can help a lot if you play vs mechanised list. It can also double as AA if you give them RR to hit.

Windriders are a nice scoring unit but the wave serpent should have a better synergy with the rest of the list.

I would consider to put night shields as upgrade on your ravagers, if you find the points.
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Exort1
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PostSubject: Re: Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k   Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 27 2013, 10:36

@El_Jairo wrote:
I Would change the ratio of khymera and flocks to 2:1. There's too much St6+ shooting that needs to be soaked.
I wouldn't remove the beasts. They are your only melee unit.
My guess is that the farseer joins the beast so he could bless them.

I haven't played warp spiders but I doubt 5 have enough impact so changing them for a ravager makes sence. Long range AT can help a lot if you play vs mechanised list. It can also double as AA if you give them RR to hit.

Windriders are a nice scoring unit but the wave serpent should have a better synergy with the rest of the list.

I would consider to put night shields as upgrade on your ravagers, if you find the points.

Yes Farseer joins the beastpack. Thank you for your input Smile
I'd love to have more insight from others on the Warp Spiders.
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PostSubject: Re: Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k   Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 31 2013, 22:50

Not much commenting going on Sad I'd love some more feedback.
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PostSubject: Re: Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k   Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 31 2013, 23:41

Your list is actually very similar to a list I run quite often. Allying pre-1700 or so points is hard to do, and I think you pulled it off pretty well with this list. My opinions...

For 1500 points, I think you have a crap load of lances. 15 lances is what I count. At 1500 points, I have 6 lances. Lances are great at what they do, but you have to remember what they are good at. They are good at taking down high armor targets, but are sub-par at taking out mid armor targets due to their lack of saturation of fire. Allying the warwalkers for lances is redundant to your list, in my opinion. You might as well drop them and bring another ravager.

I would suggest swapping the lances on the walkers to something more mid-str. I personally stick with the dual scatter lasers. Even swapping to scatter laser/bright lance would be more beneficial to the rest of your list. Perhaps you could try the scatter laser/starcannon everyone is raving about. I have yet to try it, and I think your list would be a good place for a test run.

If you're hesitant about having only 5 warp spiders, consider dropping a single walker to bring more bodies. You'll retain the same amount of shooting. I've tried using only 5 warp spiders a couple times, and I find that they can still be effective. Deep striking them to target rear armor is easier with only 5, which is really the only advantage. Having 10 allows you to cross the field safer.

I run the same beast pack composition. I find that the 5 khymera get the job done, and bringing more only puts more eggs into that basket. And if you're afraid of losing a bird to S6+ shooting, change your outlook on it. Your opponent is shooting S6 guns at a 12 point model instead of your open-top, deadly vehicles. Consider yourself lucky. :-)

Everything else on the list looks great.
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PostSubject: Re: Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k   Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 01 2013, 00:17

@autopilot wrote:
Your list is actually very similar to a list I run quite often. Allying pre-1700 or so points is hard to do, and I think you pulled it off pretty well with this list. My opinions...

For 1500 points, I think you have a crap load of lances. 15 lances is what I count. At 1500 points, I have 6 lances. Lances are great at what they do, but you have to remember what they are good at. They are good at taking down high armor targets, but are sub-par at taking out mid armor targets due to their lack of saturation of fire. Allying the warwalkers for lances is redundant to your list, in my opinion. You might as well drop them and bring another ravager.

I would suggest swapping the lances on the walkers to something more mid-str. I personally stick with the dual scatter lasers. Even swapping to scatter laser/bright lance would be more beneficial to the rest of your list. Perhaps you could try the scatter laser/starcannon everyone is raving about. I have yet to try it, and I think your list would be a good place for a test run.

If you're hesitant about having only 5 warp spiders, consider dropping a single walker to bring more bodies. You'll retain the same amount of shooting. I've tried using only 5 warp spiders a couple times, and I find that they can still be effective. Deep striking them to target rear armor is easier with only 5, which is really the only advantage. Having 10 allows you to cross the field safer.

I run the same beast pack composition. I find that the 5 khymera get the job done, and bringing more only puts more eggs into that basket. And if you're afraid of losing a bird to S6+ shooting, change your outlook on it. Your opponent is shooting S6 guns at a 12 point model instead of your open-top, deadly vehicles. Consider yourself lucky. :-)

Everything else on the list looks great.

Thank you for your insight Smile

I wasn't actually hesitant about running only 5 warp spiders, I was hesitant to run them at all, since they're more or less equivalent to a ravager in point cost and one less ravager = 3 less darklight weapons shooting at my opponent's vehicules on T1. It's the same train of thought behind running DA in a Serpant instead of jetbikes, more long range shooting on T1 for better alpha-strike.

I agree with the beastpack loadout, I think I'm going to stick with 5 Khymera.
Although I do have a dilemma about the beasts: where am I supposed to place the beastmasters? In front of the Khymera so they soak up the first shots? Right behind the Khymera with the ICs (Baron/Farseer) and Flocks hanging further behind?

Looking forward to more comments Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k   Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 01 2013, 00:33

@Exort1 wrote:
Although I do have a dilemma about the beasts: where am I supposed to place the beastmasters? In front of the Khymera so they soak up the first shots? Right behind the Khymera with the ICs (Baron/Farseer) and Flocks hanging further behind?
Definitely play with this unit before going into a major tournament or anything. There's not a huge learning curve with it, but there are some circumstances and weapons that you need to just plain avoid.

You want at least one beastmaster to survive so he can absorb challenges, so put him in the back.
Put your farseer in the back so he can have range to bless things behind him, and so that he won't die.
Put your excess beastmasters and all the khymera in the front to absorb shots. Put one bird in 'Look Out Sir!' range of each of the beastmasters, that way you can LoS some shots and take a bird to 1 wound left before you lose a model.
I put the Baron in the middle. I figure that if my opponent blasts the unit down to him, he can tank the rest. But you could certainly put him in the back.

So, in short, from front to back:
Khymera
3 Beastmasters /w a Razorwing flock touching base for LoS wounds
Baron and the rest of the Razorwing Flocks
Single Beastmaster
Farseer
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Hannibal.Lictor
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PostSubject: Re: Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k   Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 01 2013, 06:14

I have to agree that the walkers are not really adding anything you dont all ready have in spades. I would dump them and fit in a knight if you can (and if you have the model). I run one with my DEldar list and the guy really opens up assaults for other units and has some serious turn one killing power. Barring that, a 10 man spiders unit with an exarch with a spinneret rifle and fastshot is pretty damn nice, esp with guide. You can also kill the walkers and take a full 10 man DA unit. They are also pretty damn hard hitting. Do not discount blade storm and battle trance.

What powers are you aiming for on the FS? I typically take either the prime in fate, div and telepathy after a roll on each table or just go for 2 on fate and take prescience. What I typically look for is either doom or fortune (duh) and hope to grab one or the other. I nver seem to have the warpcharge for storm when I get it and the others are kind of a mixed bag....and Death Mission is total garbage.

I have no idea how to run a beastpack but the post above looks pro.
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PostSubject: Re: Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k   Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 01 2013, 10:29

@Hannibal.Lictor wrote:
I have to agree that the walkers are not really adding anything you dont all ready have in spades. I would dump them and fit in a knight if you can (and if you have the model). I run one with my DEldar list and the guy really opens up assaults for other units and has some serious turn one killing power. Barring that, a 10 man spiders unit with an exarch with a spinneret rifle and fastshot is pretty damn nice, esp with guide. You can also kill the walkers and take a full 10 man DA unit. They are also pretty damn hard hitting. Do not discount blade storm and battle trance.

What powers are you aiming for on the FS? I typically take either the prime in fate, div and telepathy after a roll on each table or just go for 2 on fate and take prescience. What I typically look for is either doom or fortune (duh) and hope to grab one or the other. I nver seem to have the warpcharge for storm when I get it and the others are kind of a mixed bag....and Death Mission is total garbage.

I have no idea how to run a beastpack but the post above looks pro.

Thank you for your feedback, although I have to say there are a few things I don't really agree on with what you're saying. Let me explain my thought process.

The Walkers have the same cost efficiency as 2 Ravagers in terms of darklight weapons (35 pts/shot), the reasons I'm taking this unit instead of another Ravager are the following:
- same cost efficiency (as mentioned above)
- I simply don't have the points for another Ravager, or else it would be in there too Razz
- 1 Guide/Prescience on a unit of 3 Walkers is the same as 2 Guide/Prescience on 2 Ravagers, so by using Guide/Prescience on Walkers + a Ravager I'm getting 9 rerollable darklight shots instead of just 6 if I'm using them on 2 Ravagers

I'm really not a fan of the Wraith Knight, maybe it can work in some lists but paying 240 base pts for what? Two S10 AP2 shots? I'd rather pay 210 for 6 darklight shots. Yes the WK is a lot tougher but fire magnets don't work against competent players, plus it diverges from the mindset of this list (and most other DE lists) of alpha-striking (hitting hard and fast).

I'm not a fan of the 10 big units of Spiders, here's the math behind it: 5 Warp Spiders on average take 3 Hull Points off of AV11 (in most cases you should be able to hit the rear for AV10 anyways) without counting cover/invulnerable saves. I might tweak the list a bit to add 1 or 2 more Spiders making it a unit of 6-7, so I can kill any vehicule reliably on the turn they deep-strike, but I don't think it's really worth it beyond that number.

The 10 DA I also don't like, I just don't think DA are worth their point cost, I only use them as VU for the Serpents. I can get more in depth if you want me to but I think everyone will agree with me on this one.

For the powers I'm aiming for any of the following Doom/Fortune/Misfortune + Guide/Prescience.
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k   Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 01 2013, 10:54

@Exort1 wrote:
5x Dire Avengers in Wave Serpant (Scatter Laser/Shuriken Canon)

I would replace the dire avengers with squads of 10 guardians if you can find the points, it's 25pts more for double the fire power and wounds. 5 dire avengers won't do anything. But 10 guardians will make your opponent think twice before closing in on you as the serpent means they can strike anywhere within 24-30" (depending on whether you rotate the serpent and what you roll on battle focus). This also makes the unit a lot tougher, so when they do get out on turn 5 to hold an objective they won't be as easy to move (assuming going to ground in area terrain for 3+ cover).

5 dire avengers don't do anything for you, they can't even hold objectives reliably, don't be fooled by LD9 18" range and 4+ armour. The guardians need to take more casualties to take a leadership test in the first place, they will have a 4+ cover save in ruins meaning the extra armour the avengers bring is irrelevant, even if there are no ruins on the board, they will still get a 3+ cover save going to ground in area terrain. The extra range the dire avengers have is never used, as the unit is so small its too much of a risk disembarking them as they simply cannot survive outside their transport.

Having a squad of guardians in a wave serpent adds devastating short range fire to your army that can really put out a lot of damage when things get close 20 S4 rending shots is something your opponent can't ignore, 10 S4 rending shots on a fragile unit is something he will ignore.

All the eldar players I know have switched out their minimum 5 dire avenger squads for 10 guardians, for this very reason.

I would drop the walkers, and replace them with a ravager, AV11 and 12" movement is better in my opinion. This frees up the points for you to switch out the avengers for guardians and increase the size of that warpspider squad.

Hope that helps. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k   Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 01 2013, 13:37

@Mushkilla wrote:
@Exort1 wrote:
5x Dire Avengers in Wave Serpant (Scatter Laser/Shuriken Canon)

I would replace the dire avengers with squads of 10 guardians if you can find the points, it's 25pts more for double the fire power and wounds. 5 dire avengers won't do anything. But 10 guardians will make your opponent think twice before closing in on you as the serpent means they can strike anywhere within 24-30" (depending on whether you rotate the serpent and what you roll on battle focus). This also makes the unit a lot tougher, so when they do get out on turn 5 to hold an objective they won't be as easy to move (assuming going to ground in area terrain for 3+ cover).

5 dire avengers don't do anything for you, they can't even hold objectives reliably, don't be fooled by LD9 18" range and 4+ armour. The guardians need to take more casualties to take a leadership test in the first place, they will have a 4+ cover save in ruins meaning the extra armour the avengers bring is irrelevant, even if there are no ruins on the board, they will still get a 3+ cover save going to ground in area terrain. The extra range the dire avengers have is never used, as the unit is so small its too much of a risk disembarking them as they simply cannot survive outside their transport.

Having a squad of guardians in a wave serpent adds devastating short range fire to your army that can really put out a lot of damage when things get close 20 S4 rending shots is something your opponent can't ignore, 10 S4 rending shots on a fragile unit is something he will ignore.

All the eldar players I know have switched out their minimum 5 dire avenger squads for 10 guardians, for this very reason.

I would drop the walkers, and replace them with a ravager, AV11 and 12" movement is better in my opinion. This frees up the points for you to switch out the avengers for guardians and increase the size of that warpspider squad.

Hope that helps. Very Happy

Sounds interesting, how would you play the guardians though? Leave them in the Serpent and just shoot at the stuff that comes too close or try to get them out in cover agressively asap?
And what about adding a heavy weapon platform to the guardian squad?

Also if anyone can enlighten me on this subject I'd appreciate: do holofields improve jink save by 1, making it 4+? Or only strict cover saves?
And does the serpent shield count as a weapon? In the sense that if I want to shoot at BS4 with the scatter laser/shuriken cannon/serpent shield I can't move more than 6"?

Thanks Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k   Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 01 2013, 13:46

You keep them in the transport until anything gets close. They are there to make your opponent think twice about closing in on your army and punish him if he does.

I wouldn't bother with a weapons platform, they don't need it.

Yes holo fields make jink saves a 4+ (3+ when moving flat out).

The rules state the serpent shield is "treat this as a hull mounted weapon pointing forward". Also scatter lasers can only twinlink weapons, if it's not a weapon, then it can't be twinlinked. You can only fire two weapons at full BS if you move more than 6" meaning one of the three weapons would need to be snap fired.

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Last edited by Mushkilla on Thu Aug 01 2013, 13:53; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k   Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 01 2013, 13:51

Well, with the guardians you have the option to choose depending on situation, with the DA's you ahve to keep em in for as long as possible. If you bring a platform they can be pushed into cover t1 and you just have the WS cruising solo or they could be kept in. 20 shots is nothing to sneeze at like mush said.

The shield is a bit awkward as it is not a weapon per se but still its kinda a weapon Wink We have played it like this:

It is a weapon when it comes to firing, IE snapshots for the 3d weapon (usually cannon)
It's NOT a weapon when it comes to vehicle damage.

The sense behind it is that albeit it is not a desctructible weapon, merely a focussing of force it would still require "crew" to point and aim. Ie, a weapon, yet not a destrictible one.

I'm sure it will be FAQ:ed eventually.

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PostSubject: Re: Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k   Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 01 2013, 15:06

Hmm.. Now that you mentionned switching DA with guardians I'm thinking of adding a shuriken cannon platform while I'm at it, I mean for 15 pts it's well worth it I feel, plus it's an assault weapon so I can still move and shoot (as opposed to all the other platform choices). Wouldn't you agree?

But I'm still in a dilemma between DA and guardians, I know it's a 4pts/model difference but I feel like the additional 6" range of the DA is a pretty big deal. I mean with such a short range the guardians will most likely not be shooting anything until T3, that would be 90 pts not doing anything during 2 turns. Also let's not forget this is meant to be a competitive list, a competent player simply won't come in a 12" radius of the Serpent.

I don't know.. Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k   Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 01 2013, 17:12

@Exort1 wrote:
Hmm.. Now that you mentionned switching DA with guardians I'm thinking of adding a shuriken cannon platform while I'm at it, I mean for 15 pts it's well worth it I feel, plus it's an assault weapon so I can still move and shoot (as opposed to all the other platform choices). Wouldn't you agree?

I really don't see the need, if anything it will just tempt you to get them out of the waveserpent early just to get 3 S6 shots, which is bad. Not to mention the guardian firing it doesn't get to shoot his own catapult 15pts for 1 extra shot (and making two other shots S6)? Not worth it considering the role the guardian are there to perform.

@Exort1 wrote:
But I'm still in a dilemma between DA and guardians, I know it's a 4pts/model difference but I feel like the additional 6" range of the DA is a pretty big deal. I mean with such a short range the guardians will most likely not be shooting anything until T3, that would be 90 pts not doing anything during 2 turns

Right I think your overlooking a few things.

Why did you take dire avengers? Because you need a troop choice from your allies detachment and troop choices are good at capturing objectives. Five man units are too fragile to be used offensively, and you can't afford to lose troops you only have 20 T3 scoring bodies. They are like five man warrior squads, you don't expect them to do anything other than score, sure they have blasters, but it's not like you are counting on them to down a tank (if you are you might need to rethink your battle plan).

So do you plan on having your dire avengers shoot anything? No. Their job is to stay alive in the serpent until turn 5 and jump out and capture an objective.

So now that it's clear that we are not counting on any of the small troop units in this list to shoot anything. It becomes apparent that it doesn't matter if the guardian don't shoot anything the whole game! Their job is to capture objectives and win you the mission. What do they give you over avengers, for 25pts the ability to deny areas of the board to your enemy.

You need to think how units help you achieve your goal, which is to win the mission, not whether or not they make their points back. Those 90pts are not there to do damage that's just a nice feature, they are there to win you the game by capturing and objective and giving you area denial.

Units don't have to do kill models to do damage. Reavers in reserve can force enemy units to hug the table edge just so they won't get bladevaned, the reavers are not on the board yet they are already dictating my opponents movement. A razorwing with large blasts in reserve forces all of your opponents units to spread out to reduce potential damage form those missiles. A talos sitting on an objective in the midfield, doesn't kill anything, yet controls a 30-36" diameter circle in the centre of the board, and denies your opponent that objective.

@Exort1 wrote:
Also let's not forget this is meant to be a competitive list, a competent player simply won't come in a 12" radius of the Serpent.

A competent players know that the threat range of guardians in a wave serpent is not 12". Wink

It's 24-30" more or less depending on whether you rotate the serpent (6" serpent move + 6" from hatch +d6" battle focus + 12"). That forces your opponent to either risk coming within 24" of your wave serpent or staying away from it giving, you a nice bit of board control.

It's also worth noting that the best way to deal with a waveserpent and it's 4+ cover save from holo fields is to assault it. The guardians make that very risky for your opponent.

Hope that helps. Very Happy

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Exort1
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PostSubject: Re: Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k   Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 01 2013, 18:01

Ok you have me convinced Very Happy Going to give them a try next game.

As for the list I'm going to remove some flocks to make space for the guardians and some grisly trophies. Let me know how it looks.

HQ:

Baron Sathonyx
Farseer on Jetbike


Troops:

5x Warriors (Blaster) in Venom (2x SC, Grisly Trophies)
5x Warriors (Blaster) in Venom (2x SC, Grisly Trophies)
5x Warriors (Blaster) in Venom (2x SC)
10x Guardians in Wave Serpant (Scatter Laser/Shuriken Canon)


Fast Attack:

3x Beastmasters, 5x Khymaera, 4x Razorwing Flocks
5x Warp Spiders


Heavy Support:


Ravager (3x DL)
Ravager (3x DL)
3x War Walkers (2x Bright Lance each)

Total - 1496 pts

Or I could also remove the grisly trophies and add holofields. I'm not sure what's better, reliable leadership tests for the beasts/farseer powers or +1 to the serpent's jink/cover saves?
Another question also popped in my mind, do grisly trophies stack? As in if you have two grisly trophies in a 6" radius of a unit can it reroll its leadership tests twice?
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PostSubject: Re: Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k   Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 01 2013, 18:52

Trophies, being able to reroll perils is key, not that you will get them much mind you but it can be the difference between getting that fortune off or not. I tend to not take HF on my serpents, the jink save and cover is pretty easy to maintain. No trophies do not stack. Oh and guardian platforms are reletless, not that that matters for this list.

I still like DA more than guardians, however I can really see the need for them, Mushes thinking is super sound. I like them for the added range and leadership for holding objectives. I tend to use mine as aggressive contesters in later game turns.

The one thing I would change on your list is the warwalkers. I would give them either scatter lasers or shuiriken cannons. You have alot of lance action in that list. Adding a dice spamming unit is a good idea. I tend to like the cannons over the scatter lasers for the rending. With the three you will have 18 dice and give them guide. You have a reliable AA, infantry, light transport killer that way that can battle focus.

Are you DSing the spiders?
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Exort1
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k   Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 01 2013, 19:16

@Hannibal.Lictor wrote:
Trophies, being able to reroll perils is key, not that you will get them much mind you but it can be the difference between getting that fortune off or not. I tend to not take HF on my serpents, the jink save and cover is pretty easy to maintain. No trophies do not stack. Oh and guardian platforms are reletless, not that that matters for this list.

I still like DA more than guardians, however I can really see the need for them, Mushes thinking is super sound. I like them for the added range and leadership for holding objectives. I tend to use mine as aggressive contesters in later game turns.

The one thing I would change on your list is the warwalkers. I would give them either scatter lasers or shuiriken cannons. You have alot of lance action in that list. Adding a dice spamming unit is a good idea. I tend to like the cannons over the scatter lasers for the rending. With the three you will have 18 dice and give them guide. You have a reliable AA, infantry, light transport killer that way that can battle focus.

Are you DSing the spiders?

I feel either 2x BL or SL/SC are the best loadouts for Walkers, I'll switch depending on what army I'm facing.

Yes I'm deepstriking the spiders, is there really any gain from deploying them normally?
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k   Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 01 2013, 19:33

I agree with Hannibal, I'm not a fan of the war walkers, why get war walkers with bright lances when you can get a third ravager? Have you considered BL/SL that gives you some more S6 shots for AV10-11 and still gives you three twinlinked lances against AV12+?

@Exort1 wrote:
I'll switch depending on what army I'm facing.

I thought you were making a competitive list (and therefore take all comers)? Tailoring before the game isn't going to be an option in tournaments.

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Exort1
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PostSubject: Re: Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k   Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 01 2013, 21:21

@Mushkilla wrote:
I thought you were making a competitive list (and therefore take all comers)? Tailoring before the game isn't going to be an option in tournaments.

Yes I'm trying to make a competitive list but I'm not necessarily only going to use it in tournaments.

@Mushkilla wrote:
I agree with Hannibal, I'm not a fan of the war walkers, why get war walkers with bright lances when you can get a third ravager? Have you considered BL/SL that gives you some more S6 shots for AV10-11 and still gives you three twinlinked lances against AV12+?

I like the 3 WW with 2x BL combo since 1 Guide/Prescience on a unit of 3 Walkers is the same as 2 Guide/Prescience on 2 Ravagers, so by using Guide/Prescience on Walkers + a Ravager I'm getting 9 rerollable darklight shots instead of just 6 if I'm using them on 2 Ravagers.

Personally I'm not a big fan of mixing weapon purposes on the same unit, with BL/SL I'd feel like I'm wasting the BL shots when shooting against targets vulnerable to SL and vice-versa. I'd rather go all out BL or all out SL/SC. But if you can convince me otherwise I'm always open to feedback Smile
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Hannibal.Lictor
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PostSubject: Re: Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k   Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 02 2013, 00:25

Ok Mudhkilla, that bl/SL combo is pure win. Crap, now I need some walkers. Ext, you will find that your Fs is out of range of the walkers, ESP if you outflank them (do). The SL with tl those lances and gives you a very solid shot vs flyers and 2+ MEQs. Making that unit self reliant. You will be prescience ing your beast pack and that leaves guide for one other unit.
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Hannibal.Lictor
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PostSubject: Re: Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k   Competitive DE/Eldar 1.5k I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 02 2013, 00:26

Bah, autocorrect FTL...
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