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 1850 Archon Leading Coven

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El_Jairo
Kabalite Warrior
El_Jairo

Posts : 215
Join date : 2012-02-07
Location : Leuven

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PostSubject: 1850 Archon Leading Coven   1850 Archon Leading Coven I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 25 2013, 11:28

I haven't been playing 40k for a while.

I started with Dark Eldar during 4th with 3th codex. I really liked the idea of Wych Cults but sadly I feel they have lost a lot of their punch in 6th.

I was already liking the idea of creating a Coven and came up with this:

It is a Coven with a Archon twist. I first wanted to do Urien but I want to try out the Archon's Court.

HQ:
Archon (1#, 170 pts)
+SF, +Huskblade, + Soultrap, + Combat Drugs + PGL

Heamy
+ LG + VB

Court of the Archon (7#, 215 pts)
1 Lhamaean
1 Medusae
3 Sslyth
1 Ur-Ghul
in Raider + Enhanced Aethersails + Grisly Trophies

Elite:
4x Grotesques (5#, 245 pts)
+ LG
+ Abberation with Scissorhand
in Raider + Enhanced Aethersails

Troops:
10 xWracks (11#, 200 pts)
+ 2x Liquifier Gun
+ Acothyst
in Raider + Enhanced Aethersails + Grisly Trophies

3x Wracks (4#, 95 pts)
In Venom +SC

10 x Wyches (11#, 200 pts)
. . + HWG
. .+ Hekatrix + Venom Blade
in Raider + Enhanced Aethersails + Grisly Trophies

5x Kabalite Warriors (6#, 125 pts)
Blaster
In Venom +SC

Kabalite Warriors (11#, 195 pts)
Blaster, Splinter Cannon
+Sybarite
in Raider + Enhanced Aethersails + Grisly Trophies

Heavy Support:
2X Talos Pain Engine (1#, 105 pts)
. . TL Liquifier

Ravager (1#, 130 pts)
. . 3 DL, Night Shields, FF, Retro Jets

My strategy is a simple rush: move all up but leave the 3 wracks in reserve for grabbing. The ravager might Deep Strike when going second.
All other unit should be able to rush to they target of choice. The Taloi move up too to negate and dominate the centre.
Heamy is there for making wracks troops and might be giving his pain token to the unit that can use it the most: 10 Wracks or 10 Wyches, maybe even warriors.

I know that the Archon's court is a little strange but I thought about trying this for a while. In my build this unit is T5 as long as no other character joins them. I was thinking about giving them a Pain Token but with 4/6 models starting with FnP and not benefit from PfP it souns like a bad idea.

For the purpose of rushing I have taken Enh Sails and I had some spare points I put in Grisley Trophies, as RR morale can really save the day.
I used the flickerfield on the Ravager as ignore cover tends to be rather common these days. And it can help with difficult terrain failures too.

In my opinion the list is missing a truly fast unit, like reavers or beast. But I thought it would be better to have another T5 target for them, which can shoot and assault a little, to support and be a general pain in the a**.

Any C&C is welcome. I really want to have a workable list for Dark Eldar because I was a little disappointed after 6th. So all help is welcome.
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facelessabsalom
Wych
facelessabsalom

Posts : 661
Join date : 2012-11-17
Location : Freefall

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Archon Leading Coven   1850 Archon Leading Coven I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 25 2013, 13:04

Hi,

Looks like a healthy mix. I believe the first advice to a better list is to simply ditch the court. Wasted points and bring little use. If no unit join the T5 serpents, remember they are like LD5, they'll run scared to little las fire...

I'ld also remove Retro Jets on your ravagers. Deep striking them is very risky, since u can easily scatter especially on tables with alot of terrain (which you really want to hide your army behind!). Also, if I remember this correctly, if you arrive through DS with Retro jets, you cannot Move/shoot/assault from or with the raider/ravager. So you basically arrive on spot and can't do anything but get shot up.
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El_Jairo
Kabalite Warrior
El_Jairo

Posts : 215
Join date : 2012-02-07
Location : Leuven

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Archon Leading Coven   1850 Archon Leading Coven I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 25 2013, 15:24

Thanks for the feedback Faceless.

Retro Jets only prohibit assault from deep strike (I guess they anticipated 6th).
They are there because I didn't know what else to buy. And I did like the idea of psychological pressure of deep striking a ravager in the rear.

Good point about the Ld of the court, the snakes only have 3. So I would need to keep one Medusa or Lhamaean alive. I guess Lhame would be easier as she doesn't need flaming position.

Looking over the figures, it is true that the unit only consist of 9 T5 wounds, most with FnP and fleet.
Damage potential:
Shooting: 9x 18" assault poison shots, 1 pistol & 1 Flamer (random St: 2-7, AP:1-6)
Assault (on charge): 20x S5 attacks, 3x Poison 2+ attacks, 2x S3 all WS4
After the charge: 12x S5, 3x S4, 2x Poison 2+, 1x S3 (and a lot less due to casualties)

I guess I need to test this unit to know how much it really sucks in real game. But on paper it looks like this unit could cause some serious damage on the charge.
Shooting would do: about 3 kills on MEQ (largely depending on flamer). Without flamer about 1,1 kill.
Assault (charge) would do: 2,75 kills on MEQ.
± 5,75 MEQ Kills, this should allow 2 turn wipe of a TAC squad. Most likely three, so extra support fire is needed to kill two.

In comparison Grotesques:
12 T5 wounds, FnP
Shooting: about 1,5 MEQ kill (random)
Assault (charge) would do: 2,5 wounds + those of IC (but they don't count for the comparison)

So on paper the Court isn't really that much worse but can't be used as a bodyguard, unless one T3 model dies. They have 4 less wounds but can shoot further and have fleet.

So what to you suggest I get instead of this court?
Simpy roll back to Urien and add another Grotesque squad? But they would need another babysitter.
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facelessabsalom
Wych
facelessabsalom

Posts : 661
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Archon Leading Coven   1850 Archon Leading Coven I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 25 2013, 16:12

I might be a bit off, don't have the dex here right now.

The thing about the snakes and Lhame, is that if you consider the damage potential vs point cost, it is a lose. For the same damage potential, you could get it cheaper from elsewhere and often from troop choices, which can bring you objectives! One Sslyth costs what, 30ish points?

You could get a unit of 3x incubus that has alot more punch on charge etc, for almost half of that point costs + transport included. You could get trueborns with 2 SC, that is a about 12 range 36' shots on most situations + a venom with two SC cannons, bringing another 12 of those shots. I believe, also almost half as cheap than the court. And voila! You have two extra squads and for DE, it is crucial to have as many bodies/vehicles to survive/deal damage. If you're missing points, you could drop your ethear sails and retrofire jets.

But that is just if you really want to go mainstrea, Wink
I love the idea of playing Sslyths as archon bodyguard. It is just too bad they are too expensive and that grots outplay them.

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El_Jairo
Kabalite Warrior
El_Jairo

Posts : 215
Join date : 2012-02-07
Location : Leuven

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Archon Leading Coven   1850 Archon Leading Coven I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 25 2013, 16:25

I'm afraid your right about this Faceless. One thing, those squads don't have is T5, so that the last argument I can be playing. Also: it doesn't take up any FoC slot.

Maybe a double grot list with Urien could work but I really need to find some more models than.
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facelessabsalom
Wych
facelessabsalom

Posts : 661
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Archon Leading Coven   1850 Archon Leading Coven I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 25 2013, 16:59

I hear Rat ogres from WhB is good source as grots.

True, they are not T5 but they either have 3+ Asv or they hide inside a venom/shoot from afar. You dont need to bring urien and/or another grot squad. I'ld try and put grot, archon and harmy together, break off haemy and leave 2 tokens with grot+archon :p

Play a game and try ur list. Perhaps after that u can better decide what to do if u ditch the court. Another frot swuad seem a easte, if u dint bring one more killy HQ with them. I'öd gone more wracks though.

/from iphone
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El_Jairo
Kabalite Warrior
El_Jairo

Posts : 215
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Archon Leading Coven   1850 Archon Leading Coven I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 25 2013, 23:19

I have came up with an variant to this list: involving Eldar allies.

I drop the Archon's Court and the PGL on him. Give him a blast pistol to possibly kill off IC/MC on one wound and claim their soul.
(It is legal right? In the rules nothing says it has to be in CC).
Losing the PGL shouldn't hurt the Grotesques too much as they can soak some wounds (up to 8 if played right).

I drop all Grisley trophies on Raiders and also Enhanced Sails on the Warrior Raider to open up some points. I also lose the FF and Retro Jet on the Ravager.

It did got me wondering if I should drop some more Sails to get a singing spear on the Farseer and splinter racks on the Warriors Raider.
Can 7" on average make a difference when moving flat out? It think it is significant as it represents 23%. Sure it is random so I might not always have a real benefit. It's potential is 7-40% bonus movement.
But I should play to see what it gives. But me feeling is that you can have never enough mobility. This sure could help to out run flyers and get into better positions.

And I add a Farseer on an Eldar Jetbike with runes of witnessing together with 6 Windriders with 2 ShC.

All totals out on 1847.

I'm not clear on what powers I would like to give the Farseer but all three options have their merit. From Primaris Power, Runes of Fate and Divination seem best choices. I would say 2 RoF and 1 Divi. Because RoF only have 1 real bad power imo: Death Mission.
I guess it depends on the enemy your playing. You can choose the mix before you roll at the battle, right?

I do like the addition of a very mobile troop choice, which doesn't need a transport to get there.
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El_Jairo
Kabalite Warrior
El_Jairo

Posts : 215
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Archon Leading Coven   1850 Archon Leading Coven I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 29 2013, 15:52

After Player vs Necrons I wanted to make some little changes to the list. Mainly because I didn't play my strategy right and I have found out that 5 wracks in a venom aren't adding a lot of punch.

During the game I could have used two ravagers as guiding venom's didn't really appeal when they could only shoot at 20 warriors with a Res Orb Overlord and 2 Arks bringing them back.

I needed more power to kill off tanks. The fact that my Taloi failed on crucial rolls didn't help either there.
I have also found out that 5 HWG are not enough to pop a 3 HP but one lobed grenade does the job for 1 HP Wink.

Anyway I'm not writing the Taloi off because I feel they really need to be two of them to pose a significant threat. I might also run them together to improve their punch.

So I came up with a minor tweak: changing Wracks to wyches with HWG in a Venom.

To make thing more clear I'll list everything up again:

HQ
Archon, HB, ST, CD, SF & BP 160
Heamonculus, VB
Allied Farseer, Eldar Jetbike 115

Elite
4 Grotesques LG + Aberration with Scissorhand
Raider with Enhanced Sails

Troop
10 Wyches HWG
10 Wracks 2 LG +Acoth
In 2 Raider with Enhanced Sails

5 Wyches HWG
5 Warriors Blaster
in Venom 2 SC +GTroph

And shooting support
10 Warriors SC
In Raider with DC +NS +SR

Eldar Allies 6 Windriders +2SC

Heavy Support
2x Talos +TL-LG
Ravager +NS +FF

While I was writing this down I see that I lack any FA options. Rather strange but on the other hand I can't afford to reduce the number of skimmers any more.

Furthermore I found out that the Windriders might be better of alone than just bodyguards to the Farseer. I am considering of splitting them up in 2x 3 (without SC) and give the Farseers the mantle of the Laughing god. This seems more fitting the list as the farseer can move up with the assault part of the army (quite everything) and the Windriders can stay in reserve for last turn grabbing/contesting.
It fits in the points with leaving out some upgrades: FF on Ravager, VB on Heamy and GTroph on Wych Venom.

The other way I was opting to go is to drop the Warrior Boat for a Blasterborn Venom. But I don't want to loose too much AI shooting either.
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El_Jairo
Kabalite Warrior
El_Jairo

Posts : 215
Join date : 2012-02-07
Location : Leuven

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Archon Leading Coven   1850 Archon Leading Coven I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 01 2013, 23:55

I came up with a new iteration of this list.

HQ
Archon, HB, ST, CD, SF & BP 160
Allied Farseer, Eldar Jetbike, Mantle 155

Elite
4 Grotesques LG + Aberration with Scissorhand
Raider with Enhanced Sails

Troop
10 Wyches HWG
In 1 Raider with Enhanced Sails

5 Wyches HWG
5 Warriors Blaster
in Venom 2 SC

And shooting support
10 Warriors SC
In Raider with DC +NS +SR +GTroph

Eldar Allies: 2x Windriders

Fast Attack
4 Beastmasters with 2x 5 khymeray and 2 Flock

Heavy Support
2x Talos +TL-LG
Ravager +NS +FF

Now I loose the liquifier goodness and a Raider but gain a nice fast CC option. Which strengthens my second wave of the Taloi.
The bikeseer can help out the beasts. Giving them better cover than the Baron would and also H&R with higher Ld to boot.
Could it be useful to switch out 2 flocks and some upgrades for a Clawed Fiend? That extra strength can help out more than Rending vs T4 models. Against vehicles he is just slightly worse with one wound taken. He does sink S6-9 hits nicely as long as there are no more than 3 to take. So ideal vs PF serges and the likes.

Forget about this since only IC can join other units. Too sad ;.(
Could this work even if the farseer can't join the beasts?

What do you think? Is this too light in troop units?
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facelessabsalom
Wych
facelessabsalom

Posts : 661
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Archon Leading Coven   1850 Archon Leading Coven I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 02 2013, 08:32

Looks good on troops. I feel that blast pistol on Archon is a bit of overpriced. I'ld swap it out with grenades/HwG/PGL instead.

I don't think it is a good idea to mix in clawed fiend into the group. Mainly because of the Toughness difference and that flocks are cheaper, forcing dice rolls makes them better. If you check out plastikente's guide for how to run Beastpacks, I think you'll understand better.

Good luck!
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