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 How powerful Can Drazhar and 9 Incubi be? How ridiculous and threatening they are?

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Eldritchwarmaster84
Kabalite Warrior
Eldritchwarmaster84

Posts : 111
Join date : 2013-07-19

How powerful Can Drazhar and 9 Incubi be? How ridiculous and threatening they are? Empty
PostSubject: How powerful Can Drazhar and 9 Incubi be? How ridiculous and threatening they are?   How powerful Can Drazhar and 9 Incubi be? How ridiculous and threatening they are? I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 25 2013, 05:13

I Love incubi, just dont know how to get them in combat without any hurt, when i use them( i might be using them a bit wrong) i usually take 2 wounds and one on drazhar or 5 in this one case against Tau. The Q is what would be a good tactic around this? What are the possiblities of them doing damage to the extreme.
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Talos
Kabalite Warrior
Talos

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Join date : 2011-09-15
Location : Malmö

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PostSubject: Re: How powerful Can Drazhar and 9 Incubi be? How ridiculous and threatening they are?   How powerful Can Drazhar and 9 Incubi be? How ridiculous and threatening they are? I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 25 2013, 09:47

What's the possibility that 9 incubi+ Drazhar in a raider doing damage to anyone?
Low to none
Way? because they are going to footslog and die to plasma / bolters / whatever guns
Here is my raider with 450pts of cc awzomnes, please shoot something else?

Let's face it, this single unit in a paper airplane comes around 500pts, in a 1500 game that a third of your army. A raiders aren't famous for their survivability. The raider is going to explode, killing around 2. The rest is going to footslog.  And if they manage to assault, overmatch and no grenades will not really help.
 
Now I like the incubi squad, and use it myself. Think of them more like supporting pw attacks to wyches and wracks. I use my incubi in squads of 3-4. They are assaulting the same target as wracks/wyches, after the expendable troops have taken the overmatch, and engaged as many enemy models as possibly. This way it is possible for all three incubi to be in base contact with a single enemy, thus only one model can strike the incubi.

Hope this helps
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False Son
Sybarite
False Son

Posts : 305
Join date : 2012-12-23

How powerful Can Drazhar and 9 Incubi be? How ridiculous and threatening they are? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How powerful Can Drazhar and 9 Incubi be? How ridiculous and threatening they are?   How powerful Can Drazhar and 9 Incubi be? How ridiculous and threatening they are? I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 25 2013, 17:01

Yeah, Incubi are best used as a scalpel to cut out the hard parts of your enemy's army. A big, honking unit of 9+Drazhar is asking to be Battle Cannon'd, Raider or no Raider. Better to invest in a small unit and use them to kill off little groups of MEQs and Terminators. If you lose them, no big deal. You didn't invest 500 points into a single unit.

I even doubt the value of Drazhar, as nasty as he looks on paper.
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Massaen
Klaivex
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Join date : 2011-07-05
Location : Western Australia

How powerful Can Drazhar and 9 Incubi be? How ridiculous and threatening they are? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How powerful Can Drazhar and 9 Incubi be? How ridiculous and threatening they are?   How powerful Can Drazhar and 9 Incubi be? How ridiculous and threatening they are? I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 25 2013, 17:03

I have run 8 plus draz plus a haemy - if it gets a charge pretty much what ever is the target dies... even through cover - unless the target has a bucket of ap3 weapons.

That said, you have to rely on a little luck because as soon as you mention what is inside the raider it will get shot at... a lot.

if the enemy advance turn 1 its possible to get a charge off but more often, you move flat out turn 1 and hope to live for turn 2 charge

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callofdoobie
Kabalite Warrior
callofdoobie

Posts : 102
Join date : 2012-04-05
Location : Baltimore

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PostSubject: Re: How powerful Can Drazhar and 9 Incubi be? How ridiculous and threatening they are?   How powerful Can Drazhar and 9 Incubi be? How ridiculous and threatening they are? I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 25 2013, 17:13

Too expensive; better to put the points in more cost effective CC units (i.e. Beastmasters, 5 man Wych squads, hellions w/ Baron)
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False Son
Sybarite
False Son

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PostSubject: Re: How powerful Can Drazhar and 9 Incubi be? How ridiculous and threatening they are?   How powerful Can Drazhar and 9 Incubi be? How ridiculous and threatening they are? I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 25 2013, 17:28

Yeah, this sounds all well and good until you face horde.
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jbwms713
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PostSubject: Re: How powerful Can Drazhar and 9 Incubi be? How ridiculous and threatening they are?   How powerful Can Drazhar and 9 Incubi be? How ridiculous and threatening they are? I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 25 2013, 17:45

In a "standard" raider-borne army, I don't think this unit will work super well, for the reasons stated above. Unlike other armies who can take transports dedicated to being survivable, a unit like this gets a big target, on a platform that can't really take much damage. This is why I tend to avoid expensive units. Aside from joined HQ's, no unit in my army goes above 200 points.

However, I believe that there are ways to make this style of unit more viable. More does not necessarily equate to completely, mind you, but it's a start. And this way is Webway portals.

I haven't really given them much thought myself in this codex, because I like vehicles too much. I don't care for how they work (not holding back reserves for an alpha-strike), yadda yadda... but here's an idea...

The army needs to be built around the idea of not just this single unit, but allowing units to come on from reserves and being able to handle the turn of fire that they have to take. How to do this is fairly simple, in theory.

Step one, the portal droppers - probably at least two, maybe three Heamy's surrounded by Wracks, maybe even Grots on one. Start in Raiders if you want for better mobility on the initial drop, as portal placement is key. You need to be able to move out, and get into area terrain on that turn you arrive. You also need a good selection of deployment options (hence the multiple portals) to be able to bring units on where they'll be most effective.

You need to focus on more survivable units in general. Heamy/grots, especially in cover, are nearly as survivable as marines against bolter-fire. They're also handy in Combat with mass poison, and will score for you.
Beast packs could start on the table, and use their awesome movement to tie up big shooty units - target smartly to help cripple enemy shooting on the turns your units will be arriving from reserves, thereby adding to their resilience.
Reavers, Scourges, and Hellions are all nice options for portal-held units. Reavers can still bladevane and generally be as effective as always the turn they arrive - Hellions have some serious shooting potential as well. If led by the Baron, they can jump into some cover and be extremely survivable against return fire. Scourges shine brighter than normal because they have in-built mobility (like all the FA choices), and given an anti-infantry build, do put out a better damage rate than, say, equal points of Warriors. That said, I'd probably suggest the reavers/hellions first.

A full compliment of Ravagers with Lances would be good for starting on the table, to start opening up big transports and do some work against the armored units that will pose the largest threat to what you have popping out of the portals.

All this said, I wouldn't necessarily suggest a full unit of Incubi on foot, as the price is pretty massive, but a unit of footslogging Incubi in general? It could work. The thing to remember is that any army can deal with one survivable unit (that just tells them where to aim the battle cannon). But when you have 5? Target priority becomes difficult.

-K-
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False Son
Sybarite
False Son

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PostSubject: Re: How powerful Can Drazhar and 9 Incubi be? How ridiculous and threatening they are?   How powerful Can Drazhar and 9 Incubi be? How ridiculous and threatening they are? I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 25 2013, 19:25

If you are having trouble with Tau, WWP is out of the question.  Tau can and do have Interceptor all over the place.  Having your army come in a turn late and not be able to assault is already risky against the fish head.  That they can pop you when you come in is worse.
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DominicJ
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How powerful Can Drazhar and 9 Incubi be? How ridiculous and threatening they are? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How powerful Can Drazhar and 9 Incubi be? How ridiculous and threatening they are?   How powerful Can Drazhar and 9 Incubi be? How ridiculous and threatening they are? I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 25 2013, 20:09

Powerful, very, effective, not at all.
I use 4 and a hq in a venom to great effect.
Going to try 5 on their own in a venom as independant trouble stabbers
10 with tooled up klaivex in a raider might work well in larger games, but its near 400pts of "kill me kill me kill me" thats not very survivable

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How powerful Can Drazhar and 9 Incubi be? How ridiculous and threatening they are? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How powerful Can Drazhar and 9 Incubi be? How ridiculous and threatening they are?   How powerful Can Drazhar and 9 Incubi be? How ridiculous and threatening they are? I_icon_minitime

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