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 How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC

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Eldritchwarmaster84
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PostSubject: How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC   How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 24 2013, 05:01

I love the way these guys look but the question is how would i use them? Put them in raiders and FO right in the opponent's Face? Or hug cover, or etc.... I would love feedback on these tactics:) What are the right combinations?
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PostSubject: Re: How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC   How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 24 2013, 05:15

Try this thread: Link
There are several old threads that should point you in the right direction. If you use the search function on this site you find several discussions on this unit and others.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC   How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 24 2013, 09:19

Eldritchwarmaster84 wrote:
I love the way these guys look

Really? This guy?
How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC M1820996a_99800112009_DEGrotesque02_445x319

Each to their own I suppose.

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How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC YhBv3Wk
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PostSubject: Re: How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC   How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 24 2013, 16:07

dont be hatin, the grot just wants to break dance Wink

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC   How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 24 2013, 16:53

Looks like he's practicing his discus throwing.

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How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC YhBv3Wk
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PostSubject: Re: How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC   How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 24 2013, 18:00

I've been painting the three that I own and I'm hating the resin, hating the model and its pose. They really should make a second model to go with the first one like Khymerae does.

But I like their potential a lot. With a good cc HQ.

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doomseer11b
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PostSubject: Re: How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC   How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 24 2013, 18:21

It depends on how you intend to use them. They are great for everything, which can make you easily lose sight of why you brought them. I use them as a distractionary unit. They blow up tanks really easy, and chomp through troops all the while soaking up all of your enemy's fire. I generally out them in a raider and launch them in my opponents face first turn. Don't worry about the vehicle blowing up they can handle it. And you just terrorize with them. It's something your opponent HAS to deal with and given they're T5 and 3 wounds with FNP they stick around for a while usually.

For upgrades I wouldn't bother with any. The leadership goes to a 4 and the acothyst gets an extra attack. Not worth the points to me. However, you can assume your most expensive upgrade forte unit will be an HQ. they must have one or bad things can happen. I generally take a HAEMY with a LG with 3-4 grots. At higher point games I will ALWAYS take Urien. Uriens clone field and awesome injector thing he has that always wounds on a three causing instant death if unsaved is pretty nice. But mainly the extra pain tokens he can spread to his unit and others. Makes them much more resilient, and fearless is always nice in case your HQ gets picked off.

Be careful who you bring them against. Poisoned weapons are the bane of their existence. So playing DE or possibly nids is an issue. Everything else is game. If you can use these guys properly they will become your favorite unit. Fun to play and love seeing my opponents face as they destroy vehicles in one phase. Actually I'm glad I said that. Make sure they have a cover save after they finish. 2 saves is better than one. And remember they don't have fleet and don't have grenades.

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PostSubject: Re: How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC   How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 24 2013, 18:29

Eldritchwarmaster84 wrote:
I love the way these guys look but the question is how would i use them? Put them in raiders and FO right in the opponent's Face? Or hug cover, or etc.... I would love feedback on these tactics:) What are the right combinations?

I use them in one of 2 ways,

either as a 4 with an acothyst in a raider with a Heamonculi and a succubis or as a unit of 10 with 2 heamonculi and an acothust.

I use the acothys to protect the charactors as they can handle chalanges quite well and the extra attacks when using venom blades or sissorhands are quite nice.

if using the 4 on a raider they are deisgned to be in the opponents face turn 1 forcing them to either deal with them or get facemashed, even if the grots doent do to much this really helps the rest of your army isolate part of the opponents unhindered and allow you to slowly dismantle their army. also the succusus means you should always be running down an opponenet as they most likly wont break.


if used as a unit of 10 - that is a lot of liquifiers ( and maybe a shattershard) in the unit. Its a unit that can dish the damage on the charge, but one which cannot be charged without massive risk due to the wall of death. couple these with a couple of talos and you are really looking at a hard heavy hitting attack unit that has to be taken seriously. use these as area denial not as a distraction though. and they need to be supported by MSU vennoms to get some weight of fire behind them.

as has been said though coven units suffer against poison, so other DE and nids will counter them fairly easitly especially with the low armour values.

Grots are not terminators you have to consider their use and not get sucked into playing like a marine player.
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False Son
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PostSubject: Re: How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC   How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 24 2013, 20:10

doomseer11b wrote:
It depends on how you intend to use them.  They are great for everything, For upgrades I wouldn't bother with any. The leadership goes to a 4 and the acothyst gets an extra attack.  Not worth the points to me.  

Challenges.

Venomblade or Scissorhand

Limited transport space.
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PostSubject: Re: How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC   How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 24 2013, 21:25

The acothyst gets an additional attack with the option of taking a venom blade giving him 6 2+ attacks on the charge (4 base+1 for charging and +1 for two cc weapons) plus he keeps your manditory IC from getting challenged. Always worth 15 points in my opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC   How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 25 2013, 07:55

I like these guys but they have some hard counters. Poison/force weapons/new Eldar wraithguys which cause instant death... They will make you cry.

I run mine with Lilith... She starts with a unit of wracks and takes their pain token. She then joins the four grotesques in a raider (who now have two pain tokens) and zoom! This unit hits like a mac truck. They have FNP and furious charge. They can wreck vehicles. The T5 grotesques protect Lilith during the shooting phase or a raider crash. She can break off and do her own thing later in the game. So much fun! Just today in one game they walked through a wave serpent, two squads of dire avengers with exarchs, a farseer, and a squad of rangers. RB
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PostSubject: Re: How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC   How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 25 2013, 13:13

They are my go-to body guards for my archon now, in larger games i run two units of 4 one with my archon and one with a haeme. Stick them in raiders with aethersails and stick them straight in my enemies face, they are hard pushed to deal with both units.
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PostSubject: Re: How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC   How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 25 2013, 14:10

Someday I'd love to run a bigger squad with an Archon in a Tantalus (FW model)...that would be delicious 7 grots and an archon muhahaha

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False Son
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PostSubject: Re: How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC   How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 25 2013, 16:54

Rancid blade wrote:
I like these guys but they have some hard counters.  Poison/force

Even without the Force Weapon attack, Hammerhand from GKs makes short work of Grots. That, and they have stormbolters and psychcannons.
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PostSubject: Re: How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC   How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 26 2013, 01:59

False Son wrote:
doomseer11b wrote:
It depends on how you intend to use them.  They are great for everything, For upgrades I wouldn't bother with any. The leadership goes to a 4 and the acothyst gets an extra attack.  Not worth the points to me.  

Challenges.

Venomblade or Scissorhand

Limited transport space.

I se both as a waste of time. They should already have furios charge which means they would on 2 anyway for the most part. I wouldn't put them against MC anyway. And the acissorhand is viable but 15 points is a little steep, and will once again wound on 2's, essentially paying 15 points for an additional 2 attacks, and I feel could be see better elsewhere. I think they are just fine te wy they are.

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PostSubject: Re: How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC   How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 26 2013, 02:21

The venom blade is for the extra attack from having a second CC weapon. The text on the venomblade says take not replace. Also I know lots of people who run grots without starting with two pain tokens, mush being a prime example, so saying they will always have furious charge isn't always true.
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PostSubject: Re: How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC   How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 26 2013, 08:32

I apologize for the horrible grammar. I usually type only iPhone and can only see a sentence at a time while I write and am sad to say too lazy to fully reread for errors. Anyway, I hear your argument about the venom blade but still it's another 15 points to get that venom blade. And I apologize if I offend mush here but I don't see a reason to run them without a haemy at minimum. They are NOT a unit I count on in a fight as I know they wil be something that will get completely covered in enemy fire hence why I choose not to invest but the minimum for them. They are already ridiculous as is. Why not take out the enemies scoring units with them and distract them while our splinterborn and venoms destroy the rest? Putting a succubus or archon is just a point sink to me. They are there for one reason and one reason only. To destroy what they can while they can before they die. Which even unupgraded is still hard to do and doesn't happen often. Investing 60 points for a haemy with a LG enough for me for upgrades. It gives them one additional weapon, berserk security, and a pain token. And if you want to ensure they don't run, give the Haemy animus vitae. Fearless in no time. That's just me though and have had great success. Million ways to skin a cat, only one works for you though.

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PostSubject: Re: How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC   How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 26 2013, 12:38

I've had some success with 4 in a raider with a tooled up archon, however the archon was on fire that day happily mincing through four bikes the first time they charged...

Plan on trying 4 with a succy at some point. A lot of it for fluff reasons (I use nid and crypt ghouls as pit beasts and handlers), but some solid game ones too.
They are the closest thing we have to survivable, people laugh at T5 because of S5 GKbolters, but imagine what those storm bolter shots would be doing to your Raiders and Venoms, or your poor wyches and Kabalites.

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PostSubject: Re: How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC   How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 06 2013, 01:24

They make amazing body guards. I haven't got to play with them much, I had a dreadknight and a land speeder(I think? I'm still new to the game) firing everything it had at them for four turns and they failed to kill them. They got blown out of their raider first turn, and then just footslogged it with an archon.

If my archon were with his usual retinue of four incubi, he'd have been dead second turn probably.
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PostSubject: Re: How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC   How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 06 2013, 11:34

I run a tooled-up Archon, and so I use Grots as her protection: they are there to make her T5, and to absorb bullets and exploding vehicles. As such, I keep them minimal, 3, with a LG, in a Raider.

Haven't tried a fourth yet, if I do I will take an Aberration for challenges. Seems overkill, though: I don't want to kill things too fast and get left open.

I am currently using Terminators as proxies, as my DE army is sexy pirate girls not actual DEldar and coven mutants; looking at Ogryns or Warmachine Warpspears when I can afford it.
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PostSubject: Re: How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC   How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 06 2013, 11:40

How can you use lig on grots. They don't have fleet and a good grilling can ruin their charge?

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PostSubject: Re: How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC   How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 06 2013, 12:10

I meant a Liquifier gun, which is a standard option for a Grot.

Grenades are by model, so although the Grots have to go at Init1 if charging into cover, Archon still goes first; I use this squad to bully troops, not take on Deathstars, so they Flat-out and Aethersail behind a lonely building in turn 1, Combat and Disembark gives them 12" movement, Archon challenges Sergeant, Grots weather plain CCWs then thump, win combat, Archon Sweeps, consolidate into the same cover, wait for next turn!

This is a nightmare for Long Fangs, Objective campers, Pathfinders etc, forcing them to huddle with their main army at deployment, significantly reducing their fire lane options.

Works for me so far!
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PostSubject: Re: How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC   How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 06 2013, 12:31

Yes. I meant that if you are 5" away from your target and manage to ligufy 3 marines you might be facing 8" charge. And grots have no fleetrerolls.

I attended recently in Tournament with Archon supported by 3 grots and a liguifier. I didn't dare shoot the liguifier in order to make those charges.

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PostSubject: Re: How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC   How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 06 2013, 12:52

Its situational Obviously, just dont fire it if you are that concerned, but point blank, why not?
Dont forget overwatch either!

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PostSubject: Re: How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC   How do i use grotesques and what good things make them a viable choice for CC I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 11 2013, 11:10

commandersasha wrote:
I meant a Liquifier gun, which is a standard option for a Grot.

Grenades are by model, so although the Grots have to go at Init1 if charging into cover, Archon still goes first; I use this squad to bully troops, not take on Deathstars, so they Flat-out and Aethersail behind a lonely building in turn 1, Combat and Disembark gives them 12" movement, Archon challenges Sergeant, Grots weather plain CCWs then thump, win combat, Archon Sweeps, consolidate into the same cover, wait for next turn!

This is a nightmare for Long Fangs, Objective campers, Pathfinders etc, forcing them to huddle with their main army at deployment, significantly reducing their fire lane options.

Works for me so far!
Wouldn't giving your archon a PGL effectively equip a grot squad with assault grenades? I do that with my Incubi all the time. I quite like the idea of an archon in a grot squad, I'm in the process of converting my grots from VC crypt horrors with spare Talos bits and hopefully they will hit the field soon.

What does everyone think about taking a scissor hand over a venom blade on an aberration, at S5 he will get rerolls on poison 3+ and 7 3+ poison with rerolls to wound gives you about .5 wounds more per turn than the v.blade does. It seems to be about the only model in the codex where the scissor hand justifies its points cost.
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