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 Looking for some army assistance

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DarkLordVerjal
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DarkLordVerjal
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DarkLordVerjal

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Join date : 2011-12-17

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PostSubject: Looking for some army assistance   Looking for some army assistance I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 23 2013, 23:35

So I haven't played or even though much about WH40k lately, but a bunch of my friends have randomly stumbled onto the game and trying to get me back in. Obviously since I'm on this forum for like-minded individuals I run Dark Eldar(or assault Elves as my associates call them), but I fear my old lists are outdated.

I originally took a hiatus after the rule update with hull points, assault before shooting, and a few other changes I disliked. Which makes me feel a little assistance for list construction is my best bet, rather than to build blind and end up in a massive 5 person game and be ashes within 20 minutes.

I have at my disposal:

1 Archon
1 Drahzar, Master of Blades
1 Razorwing model
3 Ravagers
5 or 6 Raiders
40-50 Wyches
40-50 Kabalite
8 Incubi
6 Reavers

For the HQ units, having the specific model isn't necessary since this is a home game with friends.

Could some people please help me construct a good 2,000 and 3,000pt list? Something very effective and good so I have a chance against Grey Knights and Necrons.
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Grub
Wych
Grub

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Join date : 2011-09-04

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PostSubject: Re: Looking for some army assistance   Looking for some army assistance I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 24 2013, 00:15

Instead of giving you a direct list I can give you some "tips" and army builds that are useful against these two enemies (I have a lot of experience against these two!)

HQ: Go Archon with Huskblade, soul trap, shadowfied and combat drugs: 145
This will be excellent everything they got killer with a 2++ and for a pretty cheap price! Stick him with 5 incubi in a raider for a stupidly overkill unit. Or, better still put him with 4 Incubi in a venom with an extra cannon.

Troops:
From what you have you can go two ways- or both in bigger games!
Put 10 Warriors with a splinter cannon in a raider and multiply this out. Give the Raider splinter racks and Night shields. The -6" range is horrible for Grey Knights to deal with and can be a pain to necrons.
9 Wyches with Haywire Grenades and a Haemocules in a raider with Nightshields can also be good. The Haemy will give them the first much needed pain token. People tend to think wyches have been super nerfed in 6th, however they are still one of the best anti-tank units in the game with Haywires and if you do well on the combat drugs and manage to combine assaults they will munch through anything in close combat. Eiter put them in a raider like the above or pout 5 in a venom. More on venoms later.
Depending on how many raiders you have I would mix up Dark Lances and Disintergrators. Its up to you but depends on what you do with your ravagers. I tend to put Dark Lances on my wyche raiders when facing Necrons and GK as the Wyches will be out of the Raider anyway so it can make an average tank hunter. Equally if you are going up against terminators or paladins dissies are a good bet. Again its up to you.
VENOMS VENOMS VENOMS. Venoms are brilliant. Get some. Put an extra cannon on them and unleash the dakka. See if you can proxy a few of your raiders for them and put your HQ and incubi in one, and fill the other two with 4 trueborn with 4 Blasters for a super terminator/tank/big game/anything hunter. Or a 5 women wych suicide team to charge scary tanks.

Elites:
Incubi bodyguard with archon = our death star unit. Bloodbrides...no no no no no. Kabalite trueborn with blasters... yes yes yes. These are horrible to face.
Heavy Support:
Personally I would go for 3 ravagers if you have the points. Give one 3 Dark lances and the other two 3 Disintergrator cannons against Grey knights- thats 18 strength 5 ap 2 shots that if positioned correctly-with night shields- GK cant hit you back. Against Necrons, you may want one with dark lances depending on how many vehicles they are bringing. As for the Razorwing, its good against Horde and low armour save armys. Even though it looks great its pretty naff at taking out other flyers and not great at MEQs.

Fast Attack:
Reavers are fun. Really fun. However against GK and Necrons they aren't as effective as there swoop attack only works really well in large numbers against armies with low toughness and armour saves really. If you have the points spare they might be a useful reserve to pull on to contest objectives but in larger games against those two armies they may struggle to be effective. I would spend the points on more troops instead.

Overall: Experiment with your lists, its part of the fun. Proxy use some venoms. Then you will want more Razz What I have said above is from my own experiences. Others may have different strategies. Also, a good tactic in 40K when playing as Dark Eldar is to be a bit ruthless, have fun but be "unfair". Dont spread your army thin. Hit him hard with everything and utilise your mobilty, wipe out one side of the board with 3000 points against 1500 then take on the remaining 1500 with your say 2000/2500 points. Shear volume of fire always beat Necrons and GK.

Hope this helps, and good luck!

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DarkLordVerjal
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DarkLordVerjal

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PostSubject: Re: Looking for some army assistance   Looking for some army assistance I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 24 2013, 00:20

Many thanks for tips on those, but I don't want to deliberately counter-build and listen to them complain when they notice.

The armies my friends run are:
Grey Knights
Necrons/Tau(toss up which he'd use)
Imperial Guard/Orks(another toss up)
Chaos Plague Marines

So I feel if I built to deliberately annihilate GK/Necrons, besides the tension it may create, I'd be left open to the tactics of those other armies. I'm looking for a more balanced list, though I do plan on keep your suggestion in mind for future games.
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Grub
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for some army assistance   Looking for some army assistance I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 24 2013, 00:26

No problem. I think you may pleasantly find though that the above list, is not a nasty counter build or unbalanced against other armies. If used correctly Dark Eldar are more versatile then they first appear. We have three great things:
1) Speed
2) Overwhelming Fire Power
3) Close Combat

Against all these armies and most to date the same will work. Unleashing a torrent of Firepower will wipe out a marine squad, a hormagaunt horde, a terminator team, a platoon of IG in fact- it will take out anything. I would say keep what I said, perhaps stick Dark lances on the raiders and pick what goes up against what. If you find a list that you like and suits your play style you can do wonders with it. Dark Eldar are like a swiss army knife made of crackers. All the tools are there at your disposal in any list, but use the wrong tool for a job and it will crumble

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clively
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for some army assistance   Looking for some army assistance I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 24 2013, 20:54

For me, grey knights aren't really a problem. They are a low model count army which is at a huge disadvantage to the amount of splinter shots a DE army can put out. So the main thing you want are warriors in raiders or venoms to pump out those shots.

Necrons can be a bit more difficult depending on the flyers they bring. Main thing is keep moving and shooting.

If you are mostly after a take all comers list then start by looking over the basic missions. Most are objective based. So consider what you need to claim/contest. 1 allows reavers to score, another allows ravagers to score. So at the very least you need warriors and/or wyches. I generally take 2 units of reavers armed with blasters and caltrops. The caltrops help against marines, and the blasters provide some anti tank while giving you an extremely fast moving harassment unit. If you happen to play the Scouring mission then they also score.

At 2k and above I'd look at 3 ravagers ( anti tank ) and 2 or 3 cronos. The cronos are fairly slow but can absorb an insane amount of Bolter fire before dying. I think it takes an average of 80 shots to drop one. I use cronos to protect my back field scoring units, which they have been incredibly effective at. While in the relic mission they will start as far forward as possible to make any opponent sitting on the relic want to run away. Smile Because they are so tough they are a fire magnet, which keeps the shots away from your more fragile troops. At 1500, I take 2 ravagers and 1 cronos.

I'm not a fan of drazar. However incubi with a tooled up archon are great warlord hunters. Stick them in a venom or raider and send them on their way. Just remember, the objectives are the key. Whether t is a primary or secondary doesnt matter. Every point you can get is another on the path to victory.

Some people try to build lists around tabling your opponent. I'd shy away from those as its really hard to pull off and you are at the mercy of the dice more so than when building a solid scoring army.

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Shadows Revenge
Hierarch of Tactica
Shadows Revenge

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PostSubject: Re: Looking for some army assistance   Looking for some army assistance I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 25 2013, 15:28

@DarkLordVerjal wrote:
Many thanks for tips on those, but I don't want to deliberately counter-build and listen to them complain when they notice.

The armies my friends run are:
Grey Knights
Necrons/Tau(toss up which he'd use)
Imperial Guard/Orks(another toss up)
Chaos Plague Marines

So I feel if I built to deliberately annihilate GK/Necrons, besides the tension it may create, I'd be left open to the tactics of those other armies. I'm looking for a more balanced list, though I do plan on keep your suggestion in mind for future games.

One of the good things Ive always liked about Dark Eldar is that you cant really talior a list as well as you think. We dont have as many options that are super steller against one type of army that isnt as good against another (like marines who can take flamers, plasma, or melta). As long as you build a balanced list, you should do fine.

GKs arent as bad as they used to be. They lost alot of their strengths with the change to rapid fire. That being said they arent an easy army to face either. They still get a ton of shots and can put pain on us if they want. Just remember deep down, they are expensive marines. Use that to your advantage and just watch out for their tricks.

Crons are different. They are really a powerhouse in 6th. They have several decent builds that are good, and can go horde or elite depending on the makeup. Wraiths are something that you should just stay away from, and anhilation barges are something that should be taken care of as fast as possible. Necron Lords are something that shouldnt be messed with in combat IF he has mindshackle scarabs. Just dont even try. And we wont get into CronAir tactics, as there is enough stuff in there for an entire article.

Tau is very good right now. They have the firepower and the tools to really mess with us. Luckily they suffer from tailoring issues. If they push too far one way, they lose alot of their power. They have to be careful with every addition to a list to make sure they dont have any glaring weaknesses. There are a ton of tau tactica up on the sight, and I would look into them more for more details.

Guard is a solid army against us. Their bulk fire hurts, and they have the bodies to throw at us to really do some damage. Their biggest weakness though is most guard players lack of mobility. Its not to say their army isnt mobile, it is very speedy indeed. Its just most guard players would rather sit back and shoot. If you make them move, they will make mistakes.

Orks are an awesome army to play as and against. Sadly to be competitive there is really only a few builds for them. Nob bikers, Lootas, Battlewagons, Large squads of Shoota Boyz, and Dakkajets are about their only good units. If your friend just plays them to play them, it should be a cake walk as he will take the stuff that isnt optimal. They really need a new book.

Imho CSM isnt a good book. Now why they do so well in tournaments is how broken the Helldrake is. That book might as well be called Helldrake, and guys that score for it... Overall its a bunch of expensive marines that run away from things. And its only worse if he takes Plague Marines. Just take out of oblits and dodge the helldrakes, and you should do fine.

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El_Jairo
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El_Jairo

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PostSubject: Re: Looking for some army assistance   Looking for some army assistance I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 25 2013, 16:47

I must say there is a lot of good advice posted already.

I can second the statement about venoms: they are very effective. Especially vs high Toughness (plaguemarines come to mind)

Based on the info here you should create a good base for your army: solid troop choices:

10x Warriors with Blaster and Splinter Cannon in a Raider
5x Warriors with Blaster in a Venom + SC
10 Wyches with HWG + Hekatrix with Venom Blade in a Raider
5x Wyches with HWG in a Venom + SC
10x Wracks (+2x LG) + Acothyst in a Raider

2-3 Ravagers (I prefer them with Dark Lances but it depends on the rest of the anti-infantry, read: splinter, weapons)

And add whatever you need more for balance: AT, CC or mobility. You should pick you own flavour.

All in all the way you play your games is still very important, luck also. But having a list isn't determining everything. You should know your enemy's weakness and its strengths.
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LSK
Kabalite Warrior
LSK

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PostSubject: Re: Looking for some army assistance   Looking for some army assistance I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 25 2013, 17:15

Personnaly, as I don't have any ravager available in my collection, I already used a small 3-men trueborn unit : 2 Dark Lances + 1 splinter rifle for sniping vehicules or terminators.
I hid them behind a good cover on top of a tower in the beginning of the game. They didn't move and were able to deliver two DL shots each turn during 5 turns. They did their job very well, dealing with poor deathwing guys. They were cheap and worth the points (and the splinter even managed to deliver a rapid fire shot in the end of the game ^^ ).

Why my opponent did not try to kill them? because they were "only 3" and he thought he had higher priorities.
I agree that against experienced players, these ones would have been annihilated quickly.
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