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 Need a hand from you awesome painters

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Shadowharte
Hellion
Shadowharte

Posts : 76
Join date : 2013-05-14

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PostSubject: Need a hand from you awesome painters   Need a hand from you awesome painters I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 18 2013, 18:33

I have no experience painting or really anything to do with the hobby outside of playing. I am confused as to how to make best use of this picture to make my Kabal

Need a hand from you awesome painters Dark_e10

I am not sure how to make it have that dark/dusky sinister look with the purple highlights, also trying to decide between green accents or red accents besides the purple highlights. I also am not sure how to accomplish this.

The Kabal will have two themes, one of which, is spider based. My friend suggested learning to freehand spider webs on every model with a space large enough including my warriors.

I have a poll post under Kabals of the Dark City if you are interested in knowing the names I am choosing between. I saw this picture and fell in love with it enough that I may actually grab an autarch helm with mandiblasters and do some type of conversion. Current problem though is what shades of these colors would fit well and how the colors should be placed on models....also if anyone knows of a spider web free hand tutorial.....I appreciate the help in advance.

Important Note: I bought the large GW paint set....so....I will not be purchasing any other paints, I would prefer to use the GW ones since I have them on hand.

Once painted I will post pictures of course, just so you can see how badly I butchered your ideas Laughing
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facelessabsalom
Wych
facelessabsalom

Posts : 661
Join date : 2012-11-17
Location : Freefall

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PostSubject: Re: Need a hand from you awesome painters   Need a hand from you awesome painters I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 18 2013, 20:55

I consider myself a average painter, so my advice may be inferior to our more proffesional painters around here. But if I understand you correct, your colors on clothes, leather, armor plates will be in black or dark grey? And on some stuff like blade edge, rune carvings, gems etc will be in purple/olive green. Also, you're asking on how to paint them dark/dusky like in the artwork?

In case I understood correctly, I belive you only need: GW black primer, Abbadon Black, Administratum Grey, White Scar, Nuln Oil, Xereus Puple, Druchii Violet & some green paint I'm not sure of. Oh and skin colors.

I'ld try and do something like this:

1.Prime black
2.Mix grey and black, 1:2 and paint over armor, clothes, leather etc. You could leave areas where light don't hit.
3.Mix grey and black again, this time 1:1. Paint on more raised areas where light would hit more. Attempt to shade and create a small transition with the previous mix.
4.Mix grey and black, maybe 2:1 this time. Again, paint on more raised areas and shade with previous color.
5. Wash with nuln oil. This is good for blending the different grey and creating shadows and detail.
6. If the grey shades look too muted, repeat 2. to 4.
7. Highlight with pure grey. Maybe with pure white scar if wanted. Otherwise a mix?

I'ld use a standard brush for everything except for stage 7. You're supposed to paint with thin layers and cover big area with quick brush strokes (with good coverage). But for each stage, decrease the area a little and create the shades. Also, for best results, try and do more stages of shading meaning more mixing and more levels of shades.
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Shadowharte
Hellion
Shadowharte

Posts : 76
Join date : 2013-05-14

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PostSubject: Re: Need a hand from you awesome painters   Need a hand from you awesome painters I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 18 2013, 21:02

I do see a leather strap that shows a bit of brown through, so I might do step 2 with a grey and brown mix to base the leather. I was wondering, would mixing a dark metallic color with grey work for the highlights or would that look like ass? As I have said I have 0 skill so I don't know, probally will not put pure white on anything that I know of. This weekend is when I will be putting everyone's advice to the test. I might try to post a picture of one finished model if anyone wants me to, just so they can see how bad I made an easy color scheme look   Razz 

Note: Only taking the time to post pictures if anyone actually wants me to.


Edit: Also....if anyone knows how to make a Conversion like the pic, I would like to know what pieces I would need so I can attempt it.
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holanes
Slave
holanes

Posts : 11
Join date : 2013-06-26
Location : Seattle

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PostSubject: Re: Need a hand from you awesome painters   Need a hand from you awesome painters I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 18 2013, 21:46

Painting black armor is tough as shadowing effects are tough to pick out.

A great trick to painting black armor is to prime the model... white <gasp>. From that base it is pretty easy to layer on watered down black paint and black wash until the model comes out the way that you want it. It would be wise to also come up with some standard of "off black" (like a dark gray) that could serve as your main color to cover large areas on models. This would be the easiest method if you are kind of unsure about your painting skillz.

As far as painting spider webs goes, you might go for a white fine tip paint pen like these (http://www.dickblick.com/items/21326-1001/#photos). That way you can just draw it on and not worry about the paint brush aspect of it.
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Shadowharte
Hellion
Shadowharte

Posts : 76
Join date : 2013-05-14

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PostSubject: Re: Need a hand from you awesome painters   Need a hand from you awesome painters I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 19 2013, 07:12

@holanes Not trying to ignore your advice, but I think I may try facelessabsalom's advice first. It is not supposed to be 'black', but a dark and dusty grey. It also helps the fact that I already have black primer. Besides, for someone like myself, his advice seems easy for me to follow and try.
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facelessabsalom
Wych
facelessabsalom

Posts : 661
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Location : Freefall

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PostSubject: Re: Need a hand from you awesome painters   Need a hand from you awesome painters I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 19 2013, 09:12

holanes advice should be alot easier, he's correct about that. And alot alot faster. Since you can simply load a good ammount of nuln oil and just wash the mini fast, quick strokes and avoid the wash pooling on flat surfaces too much (push excess to recesses) and you should get an instant natural effect. I believe this would require each model to be washed 2-3 times depending on how dark it gets. Then you can go back and use layer paints to deal with some other details or areas like belt and highlights. Or even prime white, paint armour a light grey color, then wash away. Also, if you try holanes advice you could paint brown leather with another wash that instantly turn white into light brown like in the artwork. I believe it was Sephia Gryphonne wash. Otherwise like you said, you could mix with grey/white until you get a leather brown you like.

I believe my advice would be more time-consuming at start, but once you finish one or two models you'll get better and faster. I tend to paint sloppy with this method and fast, which could cause my paint to go where I don't want. But since I'm doing a series of layering/shading, it's ok and on my next pass I could easily fix it. Also the wash would blend it out nice, giving some variation. Anyways, holanes method would still be faster and easier in the end if the results look good and you're satisfied.

As for mixing with metallics... I have no idea. I know I've tried, but I don't remember which models got some metallics on their mix. I must have mixed very small ammounts, for no reason.

About conversions, it looks like the torso could be our cousin Eldars torsos, arms could be wyches left arms (right arm dunno, but there is) and legs should also be eldar I think. I just realized that the artwork is an eldar, right?
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Ben_S
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 376
Join date : 2012-05-20
Location : Stirling, Scotland

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PostSubject: Re: Need a hand from you awesome painters   Need a hand from you awesome painters I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 19 2013, 10:55

I'm also no master painter myself, though Holanes's advice is probably what I'd try.

The main thing I'd say is that, unless you're some kind of natural artistic genius, your first efforts at painting are unlikely to be that good. Like anything else, you need practice. So I'd suggest you try out techniques on some 'spare' models you don't care so much about. Try both these techniques, and perhaps a few other experiments, and then start on your real army once you're happy with the results.
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spooniermist
Hellion
spooniermist

Posts : 25
Join date : 2013-05-23

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PostSubject: Re: Need a hand from you awesome painters   Need a hand from you awesome painters I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 19 2013, 12:21

@Shadowharte wrote:

Note: Only taking the time to post pictures if anyone actually wants me to.

I'd be interested to see how you get on. My DE are very dull to paint: pure black with ice blue highlights, so I'd be interested to see how this turns out. Also, I agree with facelessabsalom in terms of what you should do for the paint job.

For the metal, I think that grey+metal will look like ass. Mixing metallic paints with none metallic ones just makes them look like dull metal, almost pearly. That would look fine if the whole thing is like that, but not if you then highlight it with just metallic metal, it's all or nothing!

Personally, with metal weapons, I'd do something similar to facelessabsalom's method:

1) Paint the weapon a dark silver (I use Ironbreaker)

2) Wash with watered down black wash 1:1 (Nuln oil)

3) Dry brush with Ironbreaker

4) Dry(er) brush with Mithril Silver.

I think it's a good look, but you might disagree. Apply more Nuln Oil at the end if it's too bright.
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Shadowharte
Hellion
Shadowharte

Posts : 76
Join date : 2013-05-14

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PostSubject: Re: Need a hand from you awesome painters   Need a hand from you awesome painters I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 19 2013, 13:59

I do care more about looks than speed. If it is fast, but is not the better looking of the 2 options, I would prefer to use the slower, better looking of the techniques. Plus the whole already having black primer thing.
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facelessabsalom
Wych
facelessabsalom

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PostSubject: Re: Need a hand from you awesome painters   Need a hand from you awesome painters I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 19 2013, 17:27

Give it a try on one mini Smile

Also, if you need to prime it white, it is a bit tricky priming white depending on brand. I know GW white primers are kinda uhm... Not reliable. Then I hear army painters gets very spotty and corny. I've yet found a white primer I like.
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Dogmar
Sybarite
Dogmar

Posts : 397
Join date : 2011-11-22
Location : Germany

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PostSubject: Re: Need a hand from you awesome painters   Need a hand from you awesome painters I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 19 2013, 18:01

Not a master painter as well, but sort of aspiring Very Happy.

I would go with the dark grey over black primer method as that is what I always do. I'm just used to it. It also has the benefit of being automatically shaded in areas you can't reach with your brush, which are normally areas where light doesn't get either. Over white paint you might run into problems with recesses. With a good washing that should not be too much of a problem though.

That said I'd give both methods a try and see what works best for you. My working habit says prime black, but most masterclass painters actually do white or grey priming before coloring as the colours come out brighter over a light undercoat. You need several layers to make brighter colours work over black... or basically to make any color work over black. Priming white is definitely less time consuming and if done right looks just as good as the other method.

As for the effect you might be looking for something that looks like this:
Need a hand from you awesome painters CorrectedMistake
Need a hand from you awesome painters DSC_0141
Need a hand from you awesome painters DSC_0140

This was achieved by layering different greys over black undercoat. Pure grey tends to look boring or unnatural, so you might want to bring a tiny bit of colour in there. For that take a color of your choice, I'd advise a brown, blue, purple or maybe, but just maybe, green tone. Water the color down a lot, then add Lhamia Medium or a proper flow increase so that the paint doesn't break into water and grainy pigments. Then wash gently over the area and use a wet brush to remove the color from where you don't want it. See this step as additional shading. On that mini I did it with a dark blue and I think it turned out nice.

Hope this helped.

Cheers
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Vespax
Slave
Vespax

Posts : 9
Join date : 2013-07-18
Location : Boston, MA

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PostSubject: Re: Need a hand from you awesome painters   Need a hand from you awesome painters I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 19 2013, 19:27

Dogmar, that's stunning! Love the ambient lighting around the eyes as well. Just out of curiosity, what are you fielding that model as? Something Vampire Counts?
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Dogmar
Sybarite
Dogmar

Posts : 397
Join date : 2011-11-22
Location : Germany

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PostSubject: Re: Need a hand from you awesome painters   Need a hand from you awesome painters I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 20 2013, 08:57

Thank you for the compliment. That wolfen is one of my better works Very Happy. I hope it illustrates a way to paint different tones of grey on a model. It's those blue glazes on the skin that make the pure grey/white weapons and mane stand out. Personally I find that method of subtlely adding color more interesting to look at than the pure monochromatic approach.

It's a count-as Varghulf for my VC, good guess! Originally it's an OOP Rackham model for Confrontation.
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Vespax
Slave
Vespax

Posts : 9
Join date : 2013-07-18
Location : Boston, MA

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PostSubject: Re: Need a hand from you awesome painters   Need a hand from you awesome painters I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 21 2013, 15:52

Ah, I was hoping you would say that! Very well done. I remember back in the day, a model like that could also have very nicely counted as a Strigoi Vampire Lord. Not sure how VC works as far as the different types of Vampires now, though.
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