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 Wave Serpents

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Zanais
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PostSubject: Wave Serpents   Wave Serpents I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 18 2013, 11:32

What are good ideas to deal with Wave Serpents spam as pure Dark Eldar? Rush with Haywire Wyches? Or maybe just darklight salvos, but serpents shields and total volume of fire from scatter lassers, shuri cannons etc are rather far superior to our heavy 1 lances. Has someone already played against competitive eldar serpents spam beside Mush?

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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpents   Wave Serpents I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 18 2013, 11:41

No experience yet but fast durable cc elements come to mind. Khymerae (or even clawed fiend) and Grots. Perhaps even Wyches although they are not durable compared to the others.

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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpents   Wave Serpents I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 18 2013, 11:50

Rear armour is 10 and the serpent shield doesn't work in combat so rushing them with beasts or Grots is probably a decent enough option, as are Haywire Wyches. Sadly we don't really have enough firepower to try to just shoot them down as it would take 4.5 darklight shots to inflict a single hull point (assuming it has moved).

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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpents   Wave Serpents I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 18 2013, 13:33

The hard part is that they have range and a good eldar player won't let you get near them...they are skimmers after all. I played a friend who used 2 of them and they do so much damage...twin linking the shield with scatterlasers is just mean...and the shield ignores cover :/ I generally just had to get lucky with my lances to take them down.

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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpents   Wave Serpents I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 18 2013, 13:44

@ligolski wrote:
The hard part is that they have range and a good eldar player won't let you get near them...they are skimmers after all.

Just remember that if he wants to fire all his weapons he can only move 6", so it's a bit easier to catch him.

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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpents   Wave Serpents I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 18 2013, 14:06

yea but since he is fast he can fire two weapons...scatter lasers and shield and then fire say the cannon as snap shots which are essentially guaranteed to be twin linked.

This is a nice article that came up on Bell of Lost Souls today:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/07/40k-wave-serpent.html

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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpents   Wave Serpents I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 19 2013, 21:17

Well if he fires his shield the next turn he does not have it. So unsaved pens go through...... if you survive
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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpents   Wave Serpents I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 23 2013, 22:59

You won't [survive]. Wave serpents with scatters are super-mean for us. I'd suggest the way to go is to buy flickerfields if you think you're facing them and try and mob them in close combat.
Generally they will be trying to take some troops to an objective so hopefully they're coming to you.
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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpents   Wave Serpents I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 24 2013, 03:06

@lobo60 wrote:
Well if he fires his shield the next turn he does not have it. So unsaved pens go through...... if you survive

this is why you buy holofields
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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpents   Wave Serpents I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 24 2013, 04:03

Actually, several turns of dark light fire from ravagers or trueborn seem to do it for me. Getting to close to them is suicidal as with all thier anti infantry potential you definetly loosing a possible scoring unit next turn not even taking into consideration what's in them (wraithguard ) which would certainly take thier toll on grots. To be honest you'll probably only ever see 3 of these due to thier point cost.
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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpents   Wave Serpents I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 24 2013, 05:04

Get first turn and focus fire each serpent down. Just keep focus firing them down unless you can disable a specific Serpent, in which case you move onto another one. Depending on the list, an Eldar player can theoretically bring seven or so Wave Serpents with six troops and have holofields on everything....which would be horrible.....

Melee units are the most reliable means by far. Hell, I've even cracked one using Incubi with Furious Charge--it was hilarious to cut open an APC with an AP2 sword.

Good hunting.

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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpents   Wave Serpents I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 26 2013, 13:09

As both a Eldar and Dark Eldar player i find that glancing hits kill my Wave Serpents most of the time. So haywire Wyches in a Venom would seem a good option.

But be prepared to lose a few vehicles moving closer to them. It feels like the serpent shield was especially designed to take out Dark Eldar with its ignore cover rule. The amount of S6-7 shooting an Eldar army can put out with the new codex is pretty baffling. So be prepared for a slaughterhouse. I find that most Eldar vs. Dark Eldar battles finish with only a few models left on the tabletop.

Also remember that if your opponnent shoots his shield he doesn't get it back untill his next turn. Maybe try to bait him with an empty Raider and go for the kill in your turn.
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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpents   Wave Serpents I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 26 2013, 13:58

@Dark_Kindred wrote:
Get first turn and focus fire each serpent down.

Easier said than done as, on average, it takes 3 DL Ravagers to take down a single Wave Serpent with holo-fields, barring a lucky penetrating hit. So basically our entire Heavy Support section can take down a single dedicated transport worth less than half their points in a single turn. Great game balance there GW!

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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpents   Wave Serpents I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 26 2013, 15:34

A unit of four razorwings seem to work for me. KA-kaw, Ka-kaw! I also used a unit of three grotesques. They smashed it good. Trying to shoot them down probably won't work. Even if it did, you'd have to devote such a large amount of fire at it that you'd be ignoring the rest of his army...
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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpents   Wave Serpents I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 26 2013, 19:58

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Dark_Kindred wrote:
Get first turn and focus fire each serpent down.

Easier said than done as, on average, it takes 3 DL Ravagers to take down a single Wave Serpent with holo-fields, barring a lucky penetrating hit. So basically our entire Heavy Support section can take down a single dedicated transport worth less than half their points in a single turn. Great game balance there GW!

Oh no, I get you completely. Unless you can get some decent melee unit to hit them, Wave Serpents are night un-crackable unless you can hit them out of cover. If he goes first, it's going to be ugly.

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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpents   Wave Serpents I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 05 2014, 03:22

Well expecting that every unit should kill evvery turn its own worth in enemy models is unrealistic. Even the serpent will kill about half its points per turn. I see them costing about 300 with the unit inside (which is prerequisite for taking them) and if they take a ravager down its little more than a third... their main problem is the spam possibility and its ability to threaten vehicles and infantry alike.. Venom is a much more effective vehicle for anti infantry and we dont complain... :-)
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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpents   Wave Serpents I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 05 2014, 07:36

@aurynn wrote:
Well expecting that every unit should kill evvery turn its own worth in enemy models is unrealistic.

I don't expect that but I do expect a limited Heavy Support option to have better firepower than a spammable transport.

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PostSubject: Re: Wave Serpents   Wave Serpents I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 05 2014, 08:18

As I noted before, the same could be said about Venom. However I understand you. If it were a 60pt transport with 3 S7 AP- IC shots with 5-man transport capacity and paperthin armour, it would be different. However WS was IMHO designed to be just the best tank in whole W40K. Perhaps with Eldar technology being superior in mind. However with me always hoping for the better, I believe that someone just mistyped the range. :-) The Serpent shield should have been 6'' Nova S7 AP- IC. :-) That would make it the best (and most expensive) transport in the game and would be far more logical than firing shield emitters across the battlefield. :-)
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