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 1000 pt List For Returning Player

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Rob Anyone
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Rob Anyone

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PostSubject: 1000 pt List For Returning Player   1000 pt List For Returning Player I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 16 2013, 11:34

It's been about 9 years or so since I played my last games of 40k and back then in my misguided youth I led Ork and Chaos warbands with limmited success and failed to complete a dreaded space marine army (everyone starts at least 1). Getting back into the hobby, I wanted an army complete different from anything I've tried before. Having fallen in love with the new Dark Eldar models, they seemed like a logical choice. The list below is meant to be semi-competitive (winning's not everything but I'd like to provide some challenge), whilst allowing me to get back into the hobby and get to grips with how the army plays.
In terms of opponents and board size(s), I don't really know anyone who still plays 40K, so will be reliant on playing in games workshop and/or finding a local gaming club. This means it kind of needs to be flexible, which I think it is scratch 


HQ
Archon  - agoniser, shadowfield, plasma grenade launcher, combat drugs: 145 Points

Elites
4 Incubi: 88 points
Transport:
Venom 2x Splinter cannons: 65 points

4 Blasterborn - 4x blasters: 108 points
Transport:
Venom 2x Splinter cannons: 65 points

Troops
5 warriors - blaster: 60 points
Transport:
Venom 2x Splinter cannons: 65 points

9 Wyches with 1 Hekatrix - hydra gauntlets, agoniser, Haywire Grenades: 160 points
Transport:
Raider - flickerfield: 70 points

Heavy Support
Ravager - flickerfield: 115 points
Ravager - flicekrfield: 115 points

Note: Thinking of running both Ravagers with dark lances, or should I give one disintegrators?
        To that end which would be best on the raider?

Comment and criticisms gratefully received.
Rob
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facelessabsalom
Wych
facelessabsalom

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PostSubject: Re: 1000 pt List For Returning Player   1000 pt List For Returning Player I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 16 2013, 12:02

Hey!

I think you could need more troop squads.

Big blob of wyches aren't the best this edition because of overwatch, random charge and agoniser nerf. If you kit them with haywire for anti tank, you risk blowing the vehicle up and killing many wyches. Also, the bigger squad of wyches you have in the raider, the more dies on an exploding raider. I think the points can be better spent elsewhere. If you skip your wych squad, you could cram in two squads of 5x warr+ venom. Alot more dakka and more objective holder/contestor if needed. Anyhow, I believe splitting the squad up is a better thing to do. And skip hekatrix+agoniser.

About that agoniser on archon, I think there is a thread here that mathhammers what weapon the archon should get, and the best was either venom blade or huskblade. Agonisers were considered waste of points. In fact, venom blade are better worth their points vs agonisers pretty much everywhere (looking at the hekatrix in wych squad).

If you need points to change the list, you could loose one blasterborn and wych squad.

That's about it, I think your list is good otherwise.
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ligolski
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 pt List For Returning Player   1000 pt List For Returning Player I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 16 2013, 12:58

I'd say swap the wyches for more warriors, perhaps another venom squad and maybe add splinter cannons to the warrior squads as well, but thats up to you. If you made this switch you'd have some more points left over to figure out what to do with as well, maybe go for the huskblade upgrade.

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Rob Anyone
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 pt List For Returning Player   1000 pt List For Returning Player I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 16 2013, 15:01

Hi all,
cheers for the heads up. Having not played since 4th Ed, I know things have changed a lot and hence I'm in desperate need of advice!

So are we saying at this points level it's not worth taking Wyches and it'd be more effective to take warriors?  (I have a squad assembled and would like to run them at some stage)

Also forgive my ignorance, but don't squads with splinter cannons need to be at least 10 models in size, resulting in just as risky a unit if mounted in a raider? Or do you footslog the 10 man squad?

Please forgive the idiotic question, but has been such a long time since I played last Rolling Eyes
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Ben_S
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 pt List For Returning Player   1000 pt List For Returning Player I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 16 2013, 16:09

Wyches have not done well from the switch from 5th to 6th editions. Being fragile, the introduction of overwatch fire is really dangerous. Their most common use these days seems to be tank-hunting (five with haywire grenades).

Warriors aren't much tougher, but they don't need to go charging into the enemy, so they're a safer bet. Conventional wisdom has it that you always take a Raider with them, but you don't need to be on board - you can keep the warriors on foot/in cover while using the empty Raider as a mobile Dark Lance. (DLs are generally preferable to Disintegrators, unless you expect to face a lot of terminators and few tanks.)
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ligolski
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 pt List For Returning Player   1000 pt List For Returning Player I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 16 2013, 18:53

oops you are right, I forgot that you needed 10 /facepalm...maybe go for warriors in a raider instead...either way im not sure how much use 1 squad of wyches will be...might work as a decent unit to throw to soak up overwatch before using the incubi though

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Rob Anyone
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 pt List For Returning Player   1000 pt List For Returning Player I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 17 2013, 12:09

So based on this, is it best to essentially do a straight swap and swap the 10 Wyches for 10 Warriors in a raider?
I'll confess that having looked at threads in the tactics section I did get confused as to whether it would be more effective to run 2x 5 warriors in venoms or 1 x 10 in a raider...
There also seems to be quite a lot of debate as to to whether to give the squad a splinter cannon or a dark lance?
Ben S, cheers for the advice, as I don't know what I'll be facing I guess if in doubt dark lances on everything just to be on the safe side?
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 pt List For Returning Player   1000 pt List For Returning Player I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 17 2013, 12:14

I think the vast majority of people would say not to give Warriors a DL. If you shoot it at a vehicle then the rest of the squad's shooting is worthless. If you target your splinter weapons at infantry, then the DL is overkill (unless perhaps everyone is shooting terminators or something). Also the DL has to snapfire if it moves, which hinders the whole squad (whereas the cannon can Assault 4).

Some people have joy with two DLs in a small unit of Trueborn, but most save DLs for Raiders.
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facelessabsalom
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 pt List For Returning Player   1000 pt List For Returning Player I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 17 2013, 13:05

10x Warriors in Radier with splinter racks, are good. Note, I did not include a splinter cannon here. This is a good anti infantry platform, and objective holder.

5x warriors in venoms + SC are good anti infantry, and the warriors can be outiffted for small tank killing duty. Otherwise, this is another cheap way to get venoms and some extra poison weapons.

Both depend on the rest of your list, I believe.
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Rob Anyone
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 pt List For Returning Player   1000 pt List For Returning Player I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 17 2013, 16:55

Fully accept (with a little regret) that the Wyche squad needs to go from the above list, along with the agoniser on the Archon (I'll try and squeeze in a Huskblade although that depends on alterations to the troop choices). Aside from that are there any more obvious point wastes?

Ben_S thanks for the info. on the dark lance, fully appreciate that it's wasted fire power, much like lascannons used to be in CSM squads (probably still are but haven't played them so have lost touch).

Facelessabsalom thanks for the input, what would you suggest then as the most potent combination for the above list? I'd already have one warrior squad with a blaster in a venom.. Also with your raider squad is splinter racks the only upgrade? Finally (and apologies for the question barrage) why no splinter cannon?

Thanks one and all for your help and apologies for the probably idiotic questions!
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facelessabsalom
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 pt List For Returning Player   1000 pt List For Returning Player I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 18 2013, 20:27

Hey,

About the raider with splint racks, you could get a splinter cannon as well, if you want the extra shots. Just remember they don't benefit from the racks. I think that keeping your units as cheap as possible is the way of DE, so I tend to simply get racks and be satisfied. I tend to dislike different range on squads, that's why I skip cannon.

I'ld trade in the entire wych squad for 10x warriors in raider, raider can be outiffted with NS and/or FF if needed. If you need more firepower on this squad, add splinterracks and/or splinter cannon.

Since we're so fragile, I believe it is always better to have more bodies. So I'ld actually drop any special weapons on your troop choices to get either another squad, or to get bigger squads w/o upgrades. If points are needed, you could drop a blaster born. More bodies mean more splinter shots, which your can always bring down infantry with massed fire.

Another good thing about having more mini-squads is forcing your opponent to overkill/waste shooting etc. Having bigger squads might mean you have a chance to barely deny your opponent kill point. I believe these theories hold true especially in low point games.
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DominicJ
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 pt List For Returning Player   1000 pt List For Returning Player I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 19 2013, 13:21

I quite like the list.
Its not perfect, but by no means does it suck (not that anyone said it did)

I think the most important thing to remember about DEldar is, they need to specialise, and they cannot take a hit.

I still use a LOT of wyches.
They have three uses

AT, 5 wyches are almost always a dead tank.
Tarpit, 4+ invulnerable is really annoying, 5 arent going to survive 30 charging death company, but you'd be amazed how long it takes a space marine Captain or a 5 man devestator squad to kill them all.
Suicide, Overwatch hurts us, especialy flamers, so always send in a unit of wychs before your incubi

A Three Dizzie Ravager is surprisingly terrifying, but we need AT more than air most games, so its very much an open question.
If you can fit AT into your fast attack or elite slots, then go for it.

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Rob Anyone
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 pt List For Returning Player   1000 pt List For Returning Player I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 20 2013, 22:14

Hi all,
thanks for all the response, genuinely amazed that I've had such a great response and cheers for so  much helpful input.
Taking on board a mixture of different tactics, would it be effective to swap the Wyches in the raider for:
1 x 5 warriors in a venom (2x Splinter cannons)
1 x 5 wyches with HWG in venom (2x Splinter cannons)
This would give me the flexibility of 3 troops, whilst also giving me some anti-tank, what'd you think?

On that basis and this may appear a dumb questions, but as I've been out of the game for a while be nice Razz, how much mech do people try and squeeze into 1000 points? (I know it'll vary between races)
Thanks one and all Smile.
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