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 First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned

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thejamppa
Hellion
thejamppa

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First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned Empty
PostSubject: First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned   First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 14 2013, 20:29

I had small games today against Tau and I got decked so hard. Well, I made few basic errors. Since I only play with painted models I had really limited options. And since it was smaller game, I got very poor board: Only about 50" all directions with no line of sight blocks and just little cover. Since Tau player had normal suites alot, pathfinders and insane amount of markerlights going first... with 50" board in FLGS. I got torn into shreds. I lost half of the army before I had shot single fire. I still killed 3 Suits with surviving kabalites, shredded pathfinders with Archon and took his commander down to 2 wounds before I had to give out simply running out troops.

Still before I got decked in my turn 2 leaving only 2 kabalites and Archon alive. I had to give up since no way I could gain anything anymore in objective game.

1 ) Troops in transports in turn 1. Big mistake. Only place them in transports if you go first.
2 ) Take more troops. You never get enough fails safes.
3 ) Venoms. Bring few more venoms
4 ) Make sure that board is atleast half decent. Playing on skirmish boards against Tau is basicly giving them win.
5 )  Bloody marker lights. Way basicly nerf entire army especially if you get one who spams them incredibly amount.
6 ) Flickerfields are bloody awesome. If not with them, I would have lost all ravagers and raiders on that huge torrent before shooting first shot.
7 ) reavers hurt like wrecking ball in groins against Tau if they ignore them.
8 ) aegis is waste of points against Tau. better get Skyshield landing pad or Bastion. Bastion with Quadgun + Kabalites inside. It mightwork.

Well, I have to hurry and finish up my wracks. Get 5 more wracks and get 2 venoms for blasterborns.

Still, I got my revenge next by showing his Greater Good where sun doesn't shine next game with Craftworld kindreds. Serpents wrecking his pathfinders and markerlights in first turn really, really made my happy.

losing sucks, losing in turn 2 sucks even more but I learned alot.

I just began to wonder if web way portal could be answer against Tau. Archon is pretty surviving character. Getting him Webway portal and bringing out wracks or splinterborns or something as nasty might be interesting against Tau.

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commandersasha
Sybarite
commandersasha

Posts : 401
Join date : 2012-12-26
Location : Wimbledon, London

First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned Empty
PostSubject: Re: First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned   First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 14 2013, 21:37

Terrain is ESSENTIAL.  The game has been balanced around the 1500 point mark, on a 4'x6' table with 6-18 bits of scenery.  Your opponent's army LOVES a clear table, DEldar hate it. (As do Tyranids, my other army).

As a DE (or Tyranid) player, you MUST insist on a decent amount of scenery, even if you have to bring your own. Checkout Terraclips for great quality flat-pack card scenery:
http://www.worldworksgames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11417 is their Dungeon style, or http://www.terraclips3d.com/index.php?view=product&product=163 for streets.

There have been a few good (successful)battle reports against Tau's devestating shooting: taking out those markerlights is certainly a priority!

I haven't played against Tau yet, and I'm expecting to get a good kicking, but then as a Tyranid player I'm used to that in 6th!
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thejamppa
Hellion
thejamppa

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Join date : 2012-07-07
Location : Finland

First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned Empty
PostSubject: Re: First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned   First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 14 2013, 23:18

I had basically 2 marker lights each unit on table, thus no cover. Vehicles had 3 no cover + increased BS for the Tau. Sucked. I will get when I can Basilicum Administratium and Micro Arts 3 store house for Innifinity (also 28mm ) game then getting that LOS blocking. I just thought getting Skyshield Landing pat. sticking unit of kabalites + 2 ravagers there spread nicely (that thing is huge) and either Lance or Splinter borns will give Tau insane amount problems. 4++ will mean alot. Or then I will go bonkers. Get Farseer, 5 rangers as allied and stuck bloody wraithknight there with dual wraithcannons. T8, 4++ 6w and 36" s10 ap1 distort cannons. yeah, wraithknight on Skyshield landing pad. I am feeling quite vengeful now, lol...

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ligolski
Wych
ligolski

Posts : 557
Join date : 2012-12-02

First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned Empty
PostSubject: Re: First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned   First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 15 2013, 02:56

I'd go with the suncannon with the Wraithknight if you want to mess them up, none of their tanks are that heavily armoured as to necessitate the cannons...plus when they miss it makes you sad...3 str 6 ap2 blasts each turn is great, add a scatter laser to twin link and eat up tau infantry for breakfast.
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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

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First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned Empty
PostSubject: Re: First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned   First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 15 2013, 09:56

@ligolski wrote:
id go with the suncannon with the wraithknight if you wanna mess them up, none of their tanks are that heavily armoured as to necessitate the cannons.

I disagree. Hammerheads and Skyrays, the two tanks you're most likely to see, are AV13 at the front, making them immune to the Suncannon. They're even AV12 from the side, meaning glances only. Their flyers are lighter armoured but they are, shall we say, less than optimal choices so i wouldn't expect to see them too often.

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First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned YhBv3Wk
You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
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ligolski
Wych
ligolski

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First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned Empty
PostSubject: Re: First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned   First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 15 2013, 13:26

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@ligolski wrote:
id go with the suncannon with the wraithknight if you wanna mess them up, none of their tanks are that heavily armoured as to necessitate the cannons.

I disagree. Hammerheads and Skyrays, the two tanks you're most likely to see, are AV13 at the front, making them immune to the Suncannon. They're even AV12 from the side, meaning glances only. Their flyers are lighter armoured but they are, shall we say, less than optimal choices so i wouldn't expect to see them too often.

my mistake for some reason i thought they were 12...i dont rly play against tau unfortunately. i guess the question is do you have other at options and how much of those tanks are you playing against. i just used the knight for my first time with me DE against guard and it was difficult to use against the tanks bc 2 shots that miss easily enough kind of sucks...though assaulting tanks is fun at S10
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thejamppa
Hellion
thejamppa

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First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned Empty
PostSubject: Re: First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned   First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 16 2013, 13:34

I am considering to take Archon with webway who brings two Talo's thru webway one with TL Haywire blaster and one with Splinter Pod. 3 Wounds t7 and then pounding them with splinter pod and haywire blaster + liquifuier guns and charging them next turn.. Have fun overwatching those... blue fishies... Very Happy. I've almost painted my wracks and I have to say, I really love to paint wracks and hemmies... So Talos would be next logical choice. Especially against Tau. I though Grotesques but they cost so darn much a piece. You get 2 talos price of 3 Grotesques in here *sighs*

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ligolski
Wych
ligolski

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First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned Empty
PostSubject: Re: First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned   First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 16 2013, 13:43

I would personally use heat lances instead of haywire blasters. I have one talos and plan for a second, they are very fun. Grots can be home made via a conversion using talos bits leftover and warhammer island of blood rat ogres. Google it, its really easy and looks great. It also costs less than half of what 4 grots would cost...assuming you go for 4 and put them in a boat.

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thejamppa
Hellion
thejamppa

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First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned Empty
PostSubject: Re: First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned   First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 16 2013, 15:59

Well, I'll magnet all my vehicles anyway, so I'll test what works best. Splinterpod is quite fun against other Eldars, IG and Tau as its pretty much evil elf version of Deathwind launcher / WW launcher.  Thanks very much about the hint about Ratogres. I googled them: Proxying those: Easy, itsy bitsy conersion needed but yeah Very Happy

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ligolski
Wych
ligolski

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First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned Empty
PostSubject: Re: First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned   First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 17 2013, 00:00

its really easy i just did it last week!

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commandersasha
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commandersasha

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First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned Empty
PostSubject: Re: First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned   First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 17 2013, 00:32

A few people have suggested Warmachine Everblight Warspears, as they are an excellent size match.
http://privateerpress.com/hordes/gallery/legion-of-everblight/units/legion-of-everblight-warspears-unit
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Archon_Demetrious
Kabalite Warrior
Archon_Demetrious

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First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned Empty
PostSubject: Re: First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned   First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 17 2013, 01:51

Me and a buddy of mines are doing grotesques from vampire counts crypt ghouls and parts of talos... Gotta say they come out really well
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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

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First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned Empty
PostSubject: Re: First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned   First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 17 2013, 07:09

@commandersasha wrote:
A few people have suggested Warmachine Everblight Warspears, as they are an excellent size match.
http://privateerpress.com/hordes/gallery/legion-of-everblight/units/legion-of-everblight-warspears-unit

These are what I used, along with a healthy dose of Talos spare parts.

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First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned YhBv3Wk
You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
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thejamppa
Hellion
thejamppa

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First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned Empty
PostSubject: Re: First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned   First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 18 2013, 11:43

Nice, I can get now variations of grotesques: Some vampire crypt ghouls, ratogres... It makes them look diverse like frankensteins... Very Happy I checked that Vampire copunts Crypt horrosrs look nice and grotesques too: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat720005a&prodId=prod1460006a

Anyway I thought bit tactics against Tau. Tau is currently THE Anti-Dark Eldar force as most their weapons are long range atleast ap5 on infantry and ap4 on suits and ability negate cover hurts Dark Eldars so much.

Nightshields: Must. Making firewarriors range 24" does change alot things. Reduces pulse carbines to sub 20" range. Thus making Venoms with dual splinter cannons and nightshield perhaps best weapon against tau. As they most of then use gunline tactics. Once they're in gunline its hard them to maneuver in normal board, get objectives and such and then they cannot even hope to outmove Dark Eldar. I am considering using later 4 venoms with dual splinter cannons and nightshields to shoot troops. WHile Archon and Grots go in raider so I archon can deliver webway portal nice and close for being out Talos and pain to the walking sushi.

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Mushkilla
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First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned Empty
PostSubject: Re: First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned   First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 18 2013, 15:41

@thejamppa wrote:
Tau is currently THE Anti-Dark Eldar force as most their weapons are long range atleast ap5 on infantry and ap4 on suits and ability negate cover hurts Dark Eldars so much.

I think IG still hold that title. Nothing quite shuts down Dark Eldar like a solid chimera spam list.

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thejamppa
Hellion
thejamppa

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First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned Empty
PostSubject: Re: First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned   First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 19 2013, 13:09

@Mushkilla wrote:
@thejamppa wrote:
Tau is currently THE Anti-Dark Eldar force as most their weapons are long range atleast ap5 on infantry and ap4 on suits and ability negate cover hurts Dark Eldars so much.

I think IG still hold that title. Nothing quite shuts down Dark Eldar like a solid chimera spam list.

Play markerlight heavy Tau with 2 solid units of path finders 30 fire warrior in gunline and bloody awful much marker drones. That hurts more than jumping but naked face first into nettle bush and rolling there before jumping on poison ivy.

I've had success killing chmeras with darklight weapons before they got firing range (huurray for nightshields). But dark lances barely can effectively cull Tau's. They need desintegrators or large blasts like mono scythe missiles. Or Venom spam might be quite good. But venom spam is still in theory hammer for me. I got 5 more helions to paint before getting more models and i think I will get venom's after I'-ve gotten 2 more Wave Serpents for my craft worlders.

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False Son
Sybarite
False Son

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First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned Empty
PostSubject: Re: First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned   First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 19 2013, 16:11

@thejamppa wrote:
Tau is currently THE Anti-Dark Eldar I've had success killing chmeras with darklight weapons before they got firing range (huurray for nightshields). But dark lances barely can effectively cull Tau's. They need desintegrators or large blasts like mono scythe missiles. Or Venom spam might be quite good. But venom spam is still in theory hammer for me. I got 5 more helions to paint before getting more models and i think I will get venom's after I'-ve gotten 2 more Wave Serpents for my craft worlders.

Tough call.  A Razorwing Jetfighter can cause mass destruction, but it has to come in from reserves.  Tau are notoriously stocked with Interceptor or Skyfire.  Interceptor is more understandable, because it can get non-flyers from reserves.  But, even Snapshots are going to hit your RWJF and cause it a bad time.  So, it is not exactly foolproof.


Marketlights are brutal, but they have to be paired to something.  Depending on how many are on the field it may be more worthwhile to gut the Firewarriors and Kroot than to try and isolate the marketlight units.  Again, that's a situational call, as are most DE-Tau tactics.  If the opportunity presents itself, by all means kill the marker drones.[/quote]
[/quote]
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Mushkilla
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Mushkilla

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First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned Empty
PostSubject: Re: First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned   First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 19 2013, 16:22

@thejamppa wrote:
Play markerlight heavy Tau with 2 solid units of path finders 30 fire warrior in gunline and bloody awful much marker drones. That hurts more than jumping but naked face first into nettle bush and rolling there before jumping on poison ivy.

I've rolled into my fair share of Tau nettle bushes:

BR21: The Black Buzzards VS New Tau
BR22: The Black Buzzards VS Tau (Rematch)
BR23: The Black Buzzards VS Tau Mech/Riptide
BR25: The Black Buzzards VS Tau Mass Broadsides

@thejamppa wrote:
I've had success killing chmeras with darklight weapons before they got firing range (huurray for nightshields).

How many chimera and what were their hull mounted weapons. If the answer isn't 7 or more (including artillery platforms) and heavy flamers you probably were not playing a solid guard player or a solid mechanised chimera spam list. Also how did you out-range the manticores? A reasonable mechanised imperial guard list looks like this at 1500pts:

HQ
Command squad, autocannon,  Master of the Fleet
Chimera, heavy flamer - 130

TROOPS
5 Platoon command squad, autocannon
Chimera, heavy flamer - 100
10 guardsmen, flamer, autocannon
Chimera, heavy flamer - 120
10 guardsmen, flamer, autocannon
Chimera, heavy flamer - 120
10 guardsmen, flamer, autocannon
Chimera, heavy flamer - 120
10 guardsmen, flamer, autocannon
Chimera, heavy flamer - 120
10 guardsmen, flamer, autocannon
Chimera, heavy flamer - 120
6 weapon specialists, 3 flamers - 50
6 weapon specialists, 3 flamers - 50

FAST ATTACK
Vendetta - 130 (specialist weapon teams go in here)
Vendetta - 130 (specialist weapon teams go in here)

HEAVY
Medusa,heavy flamer - 160
Medusa,heavy flamer - 160

In my experience nothing shuts down DE more, not even triple helldrake or S7 spam tau.

@thejamppa wrote:
But dark lances barely can effectively cull Tau's.

Dark lances do just fine against Tau, S8 AP2 is wonderful against their suits, not to mention the majority of the tau army has 30-36" range so night shields are all the more effective.

Yes tau are not the easiest army for us to fight, but the new codex encourages static play where they just sit there and shoot you off your objectives. Very few tau lists are built around mobility, and as a result more often than note we can outmanoeuvre them. Combine this with most of their weapons being in the 30-36" range band, and the codex encouraging infantry and hybrid armies rather than all out mechanised armies, and the match up isn't as bad as it sounds.

That's how I see it anyway. Very Happy

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Archon_Demetrious
Kabalite Warrior
Archon_Demetrious

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First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned Empty
PostSubject: Re: First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned   First game against 6th edition Tau and what I learned I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 19 2013, 16:24

Yeah have 5 venoms in total and I gotta say it works even with the tau broadsides makin them go puff helps alot
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