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The Red King
Hekatrix
The Red King

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Join date : 2013-07-09

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PostSubject: First post on the site   First post on the site I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 13 2013, 02:53

So I've been roaming theses boards for days now and finally made an account (procrastination to the extreme I know).

Anyway I'm putting together an 1850 list and would love to get some picking over by you guy.

Also I know it's a little off topic but if anyone has any links that could offer some hints on how to convert my farseer on jetbike I'd love to see it.

Dark Eldar/Eldar Allies

Dark Eldar

HQ:

- Archon: Plasma Grenades, kab armor, Drugs, Soul-trap, Huskblade, shadowfield, venom blade, PGL (will be joining 3 incubi in a venom with the haemy)

- Haemonculus: Liq gun (will start with archon and inc for the pain token and then most likely zoom around melting stuff with acid)

Elite:

-Incubix3 in Venom w/ extra SC

- Incubix4 w/klaivex in Venom w/ extra SC (I know maybe too many but I bought two boxes and I just love everything about them from fluff to play style, also in a 2v2 match a super squad (9 with klaivex) of inc and archon walked through the entire non-flying part of my cron opponents 1500 list)

Troops:

-Kab Warriorsx10 w/ Dark lance (obj camping most likely, not optimal but I kind of needed to fill points with what I have available, money is tight)

-wracksx10 w/liq gunx2 in Raider with NS

-wracksx10 w/liq gunx2 in Raider with NS (I have 20 wracks which ought to explain why money is tight lol)

Heavy Support:

Ravager DLx3 NS

Ravager DLx3 NS (might do dis here)

Talos w/ TL Liq gun and TL SC (may end up replacing with more ravagers ((this list is the base for a 2500 which has another talos and ravager as well)) if they turn out to be too slow/don't fit my play style, but I love the model and I admit I'm fluffy as hell sometimes lol)

Eldar Allies:

HQ:

-Farseer: Eldar Jetbike, Mantle of the Laughing God, singing spear (to zip around the back field laughing his ass off and TL both my Ravagers every turn, could drop the spear for a TL Heat lance on my Talos and am considering it)

Troops:

-Windrider Jetbikex3 w/ Shuriken Cannon

-Windrider Jetbikex3 w/ Shuriken Cannon (Just got my first one of these babies in today and I love the model so much more in person)

Fast Attack:

-Crimson Hunter Exarch w/ Bright lance x2 (This is where it gets unconventional, I've been all over this board and I seem to be the only one who thinks that these beautiful gifts from the (late) Craftworld gods are our best answer to flyers. With 4x ST8 AP2 shots at BS5, 2x of which are lance, and re-rolling any failed glance/pen hits there is very little chance your enemies flyer lives, and they can continue to hunt vehicles with equal abandon should you find the skies clear.)

I'd love to hear any feedback on this list and might post the 2500 before too long as well. I don't know the admins of this site so does anyone think people like mush/thor and the others would be annoyed if I called on their expertise in particular? (though I can't PM yet anyways lol)




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Thor665
Archon
Thor665

Posts : 5526
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Venice, FL

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PostSubject: Re: First post on the site   First post on the site I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 14 2013, 21:39

@The Red King wrote:
I'd love to hear any feedback on this list and might post the 2500 before too long as well. I don't know the admins of this site so does anyone think people like mush/thor and the others would be annoyed if I called on their expertise in particular? (though I can't PM yet anyways lol)
I would plot your eternal demise.
That said, since I feel bad you haven't received a single response and you did call me out by name...


@The Red King wrote:
Also I know it's a little off topic but if anyone has any links that could offer some hints on how to convert my farseer on jetbike I'd love to see it.
http://chapterhousestudios.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=118_122&product_id=161
Razz 

That said, the 'cheap' way I've seen (not that the above is particularly more expensive) is to get shining spears, some Dire Avenger swords/spears and then green stuff or Wood Elf Glade Guardian bit for cloaks/robes.

The CHS kit is, by a decent margin, the 'easiest' one.

@The Red King wrote:
- Archon: Plasma Grenades, kab armor, Drugs, Soul-trap, Huskblade, shadowfield, venom blade, PGL (will be joining 3 incubi in a venom with the haemy)
You do not need to include all the standard gear choices in an army list.
Frankly, just on a personal level, I find it annoying to wade through. To be honest, some of your lack of replies might be because your list is a bit of a chore to read...we should maybe do an article up to explain how to keep it legible, if for no other reason as to help control my snark levels Wink

In a general sense this is a fine build for the Archon. I will admit I'm pretty neutral on the V.Blade addition to the huskblade/trap build, but I understand the basic core idea of doing it and don't feel like getting into the debate here.

@The Red King wrote:
- Haemonculus: Liq gun (will start with archon and inc for the pain token and then most likely zoom around melting stuff with acid)
Fine...though I'm starting to debate what will be a good target for that squad to attack.

@The Red King wrote:
-Incubix3 in Venom w/ extra SC
I mean, seriously, 3 of them? Even plus an Archon...eh and meh.

Look, your primary targets of attack for these guys are going to be large squads of MEQ - but you still need to worry about Overwatch. Say you assault 10 generic Tac Marines - an easy target that an Archon and Incubi squad ought to be able to eat for breakfast. They have a likely 50% average chance or so to kill 1 Incubi in Overwatch (the numbers are wonky, because it's unsure what wargear they'll have, but it's a fair enough number)

That means you'll have 12 attacks basically, to kill 10 Marines...those are not actually great odds. Let's run the numbers for fun;
Each Incubi = 1 dead marine on average.
Archon w. Huskblade (not accounting for drug) = 1.3 dead marines on average
Archon w. Venom Blade (not accounting for drug) = 1.1 dead marines on average

So, the squad will kill about 3.3 Marines. That leaves the Marines probably 6-7 attacks (depending on how the Sarge interacted with the Archon via challenges) which means about another 50% chance to kill an Incubi even after armor and FNP saves.

So that means you're in assault with 1-2 Incubi and an Archon vs. 6-7 Marines. That means they probably will live through another round of combat, and then you'll (probably) kill them on your turn. Meaning it took your toughest assault unit (and one costing you around 350 points) about 3 turns in assault in order to kill a generic 10 man squad of basic Troops. Also, by the time it's over, probably about half of your squad is dead.

Neutral 

Yeah...not too impressive, is it?

@The Red King wrote:
- Incubix4 w/klaivex in Venom w/ extra SC (I know maybe too many but I bought two boxes and I just love everything about them from fluff to play style, also in a 2v2 match a super squad (9 with klaivex) of inc and archon walked through the entire non-flying part of my cron opponents 1500 list)
And here you are talking about how good a squad of 9 Incubi was...want to guess why they were good? (Hint: 9)

I would sack this whole mess, and if you want to keep the Archon+Haem+Incubi combo then put them in a Raider with a decent number of Incubi (I'd say between 6-8, you could probably go as low as 5 if you were so inclined though) The FNP and the PGL are force multipliers - the more Incubi that gain their benefits the more value you're getting for those points.

@The Red King wrote:
Kab Warriorsx10 w/ Dark lance (obj camping most likely, not optimal but I kind of needed to fill points with what I have available, money is tight)

-wracksx10 w/liq gunx2 in Raider with NS

-wracksx10 w/liq gunx2 in Raider with NS (I have 20 wracks which ought to explain why money is tight lol)
Okay, so what I see here is some troops and now we have -1 Raider and +2 Venoms if you take my above advice. I'd shift stuff around pretty aggressively in here too, but let's just look at it as the individual purchases here.

The Warriors are...okay. Honestly, for what you're using them for, the Sybarite upgrade is useful. You don't want them running away and the +1 leadership for an objective camper is huge!
If it was me I'd probably make them 5 guys with a Blaster in a Venom and leave a squad of Wracks in reserve to walk onto the board and claim a random objective that way giving me more aggressive attack elements - but I don't think DE should ever camp, because we're T3 and have 5+ armor, so it's not like we're hard to kill. One unit with a flamer or two can toast your 'camper' in one shot without even needing to assault, and that pretty much screams that it's not a good camping unit.

Also, seriously, looking at the rest of the list and the Eldar bikes, I don't even know why you feel the need for a camping unit in the first place.

I like the Wrack builds okay, though you're asking a lot of them and are painfully lacking in anti-vehicle shooting throughout the list.

@The Red King wrote:
Ravager DLx3 NS
I like this fine.

@The Red King wrote:
Ravager DLx3 NS (might do dis here)
Why, how many vehicles do you normally see across from you on the board? If you only see 1-2 then 2 Raiders, 1 Lance in a foot squad, and 1 Ravager is enough lances. If you see more than that then I have no idea why you think you need less)

@The Red King wrote:
Talos w/ TL Liq gun and TL SC
This is a fine build - slow for your list though. I personally think you'd be helped more by a Ravager than a Talos, as almost all of your other units are built to kill infantry.

@The Red King wrote:
-Farseer: Eldar Jetbike, Mantle of the Laughing God, singing spear (to zip around the back field laughing his ass off and TL both my Ravagers every turn, could drop the spear for a TL Heat lance on my Talos and am considering it)
If you never plan to bring him up, then that's a good idea.
Frankly, if you never plan to bring him up, one almost wonders why he needs the Jetbike either. Eh, the mobility isn't a bad thing though - but don't put him on a Jetbike without a reason or it if he could instead just hide in the back on foot.

@The Red King wrote:
-Windrider Jetbikex3 w/ Shuriken Cannon

-Windrider Jetbikex3 w/ Shuriken Cannon (Just got my first one of these babies in today and I love the model so much more in person)
Fine.
Though it's more anti-infantry Troops, and these should be hiding in reserve.

@The Red King wrote:
-Crimson Hunter Exarch w/ Bright lance x2 (This is where it gets unconventional, I've been all over this board and I seem to be the only one who thinks that these beautiful gifts from the (late) Craftworld gods are our best answer to flyers. With 4x ST8 AP2 shots at BS5, 2x of which are lance, and re-rolling any failed glance/pen hits there is very little chance your enemies flyer lives, and they can continue to hunt vehicles with equal abandon should you find the skies clear.)
As far as I'm aware a large number of players here think these are good AA units for us.
Albeit, it is tough to bring more than one, so it's not like they're a total answer. They're a partial answer if they're part of an allied force.

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The Red King
Hekatrix
The Red King

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PostSubject: Re: First post on the site   First post on the site I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 14 2013, 22:10

I've actually done some aggressive re-organization (including moving the incubi to a larger unit). So that freed up a raider to carry those warriors (SC build)

The wracks have moved to venoms and may magically become wyches here soon.

I admit the talos is a little fluffy pleasure of mine.

I think that article on legibility might not be a terrible idea DX

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