THE DARK CITY
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.



 
HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityRegisterLog in

 

 Dealing with Farsight bomb

Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2  Next
AuthorMessage
ravenizer
Hellion
ravenizer

Posts : 90
Join date : 2012-12-16

Dealing with Farsight bomb Empty
PostSubject: Dealing with Farsight bomb   Dealing with Farsight bomb I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 08 2013, 14:09

As the title. Recently my Tau players, switched all out into 1k points deathstar, with shadowsun + farsight, with 3 target-locked double fusions, rest double plasmas, tons of gun drones, with rerolls and ignoring cover. It makes it basicaly a drop that kills main target + 2-3 vehicles it shoots at, and jumps back in assault into terrain for 2+ cover.

I'm not sold on relying on Flckerfield too much in that matter, especialy with a single unit beeing able to shoot at 4 units at once.

The answer would be a CC unit. I'm currently playing either 7 Harlequin + farseer/Eldrad with baron/vect, or beasts with baron as my main CC unit. Since he can easily drop wherever he likes, I cant realy hide my guys in a comfortable place. I cant realy hide them behind raiders / ravagers /venoms, becouse he can see underneath them, ignoring cover, which is not a big deal for him. And focusing on such single unit is his main priority, since shooting down 23 models with 2+ cover isnt realy reliable way to deal with it.

The two things that come to my mind, would be two CC oriented units (both beasts and harlequins), meaning, if he focuses on one, he cant realy harm the other. Second would be hoping for him not to drop down on T2, so I can setup my units on the map, so he can't pick too much at once.

What are your ways of dealing with such Deathstar?
Back to top Go down
Archon_Demetrious
Kabalite Warrior
Archon_Demetrious

Posts : 114
Join date : 2013-04-28

Dealing with Farsight bomb Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Farsight bomb   Dealing with Farsight bomb I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 08 2013, 15:02

I faced this Death Star three times with my wych cult list and I feel your pain..first I let him go first if I can have it that way. All I gotta say is turn one try taking out any pathfinders he might have n flatout your vehicles if they don't got nothing of a threat to take out. Also since most of our vehicles have 36in range I have my boats 25in away from each other (learned that first game when my friend popped two ravagers and a warrior boat in one shot)

second you must have multiple ccw units assaulting with pgl at this unit( I seen in overwatch alone 5 6's with plasma rifles and grenades are needed due to tau's always in cover plan)

Since you know you will lose 3 vehicles once this unit comes down learn to accept it and make him choose what you think he wants to blow up.. Yea shoot down both my ravagers it's cool now get assualted by the raider n it's occupants that were out of range..

You gotta play this Death Star like chess you will lose your jack n queen but the rook will destroy his king:)
Back to top Go down
Zaakath
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 98
Join date : 2012-09-28
Location : Pennsylvania

Dealing with Farsight bomb Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Farsight bomb   Dealing with Farsight bomb I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 08 2013, 16:11

Check the splitfire rule again:

page 42 states:

Unit containing at least one model with this special rule shoots; ONE model in the unit can shoot at a different target to the rest of his unit. Make a Ld test; fail = shoot normally; pass and choose ONE model in the unit and immediately make a shooting attack with it.

The FAQ changes the last sentence to read (page 2 of the FAQ):

Once this shooting attack has been resolved, resolve the shooting attacks made by the rest of
the unit. These must be at a different target and may not be a unit forced to disembark from any Transport that has been Wrecked or suffered an Explodes! result due to the Split Firing unit’s initial shooting attack.”

This means to me, that the unit can only actually target two units; and only ONE of the models in the unit can shoot the second target.

This should start a nice debate; as it completely smashes the effectiveness of the Farsight bomb.
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

Posts : 7558
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

Dealing with Farsight bomb Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Farsight bomb   Dealing with Farsight bomb I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 08 2013, 16:14

@Zaakath wrote:
Check the splitfire rule again:

page 42 states:

Unit containing at least one model with this special rule shoots; ONE model in the unit can shoot at a different target to the rest of his unit.  Make a Ld test; fail = shoot normally; pass and choose ONE model in the unit and immediately make a shooting attack with it.

The FAQ changes the last sentence to read (page 2 of the FAQ):  

Once this shooting attack has been resolved, resolve the shooting attacks made by the rest of
the unit. These must be at a different target and may not be a unit forced to disembark from any Transport that has been Wrecked or suffered an Explodes! result due to the Split Firing unit’s initial shooting attack.”

This means to me, that the unit can only actually target two units; and only ONE of the models in the unit can shoot the second target.  

This should start a nice debate; as it completely smashes the effectiveness of the Farsight bomb.

Sadly not. Tau have Target Locks, not Split Fire.

Quote :
A model with a target lock can shoot at a different target to the rest of his unit

_________________
Dealing with Farsight bomb YhBv3Wk
You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
Zaakath
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 98
Join date : 2012-09-28
Location : Pennsylvania

Dealing with Farsight bomb Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Farsight bomb   Dealing with Farsight bomb I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 08 2013, 16:21

/facedesk.

Back to top Go down
autopilot
Hellion
autopilot

Posts : 94
Join date : 2013-04-24
Location : Midwest

Dealing with Farsight bomb Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Farsight bomb   Dealing with Farsight bomb I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 08 2013, 20:22

Deploy outside your transports.
Spread out.
Fake charge him with a squad thats almost dead.
Charge him with a beast pack.
Surround the combat so he cannot hit and run as easily.
Back to top Go down
Brom
Wych
avatar

Posts : 755
Join date : 2013-03-28

Dealing with Farsight bomb Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Farsight bomb   Dealing with Farsight bomb I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 09 2013, 04:12

What autopilot said although disembarking when you're not certain they will arrive or where can be frustrating.

Honestly I haven't faced a full farsight bomb only a mini bomb but it's still very destructive and disruptive usually ghosting at least 2 units a turn sometimes 3-4.

I agree combat is the obvious answer and autopilots suggestions for decoy overwatch bait is the way to approach it also IMO beasts are the best option, heavy on khymera with a few flocks. I say beasts because of true invulns and large threat radius among other things. My packs worked well even without baron.

Lastly hit and run is a consideration but remember they must test for lost combat first so if they fail you should sweep them before hit and run happens.. if your pack is sufficient. At the least a pack is a pretty strong deterrent and fire sponge.
Back to top Go down
Archon_Demetrious
Kabalite Warrior
Archon_Demetrious

Posts : 114
Join date : 2013-04-28

Dealing with Farsight bomb Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Farsight bomb   Dealing with Farsight bomb I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 09 2013, 04:42

Btw what list are you using that would better understand your dilemma
Back to top Go down
Bibitybopitybacon
Wych
Bibitybopitybacon

Posts : 592
Join date : 2012-07-01

Dealing with Farsight bomb Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Farsight bomb   Dealing with Farsight bomb I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 11 2013, 04:28

I know when facing most deepstrike lists castling in the corner with empty transports forming a wall around your squishy units is an effective method to prevent taking to much damage. Is this an effective strategy in this case as well?
Back to top Go down
ravenizer
Hellion
ravenizer

Posts : 90
Join date : 2012-12-16

Dealing with Farsight bomb Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Farsight bomb   Dealing with Farsight bomb I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 11 2013, 09:44

Its not. Becouse they can drop in T2, or T3, and by doing this strategy, you're forcing yourself stationary for few turns. This tactic works well vs Drop pods, stuff that drops on T1.

I mostly play venom spam with warriors, and a combination of either a unit of beasts or eldar Harlequins with reavers, farseer/eldrad, baron, sometimes archon if going with Harlequins.

Not saying it's so heavy OP, but for as I played it, It's realy a High-Risk-High-Reward tactic. In a 2k game, I have my whole 2k to shoot his 1k army in 2 turns, of 3 turns, if he won't roll his reserves. The game where his bomb didn't come out on T2, were almost impossible for him to win, or just straight beeing tabled.

Once he rolls for T2, and it comes, It ignores cover, has rerolls, kills ~3, or even 4 mech targets, and shots ton of drones + plasmas at his main target. spreading out is one way to reduce the hit, but this means, I will need my CC units in the middle of battlefield rather easy to shoot out aswell, or need to have 2 CC units, that are also spread out. I need to remember, that no matter how many venoms I have, 23 models with 2+ cover, from which 9 have multi wounds, isn't easy to brake, and definately not, in one-two turns of maxed shooting at them.

So far I thought about stuff like archon/vect + haemon + incubi in raider or Archon/vect + Grotesques + haemon. Both units are good for TAC lists, and both can go into transports, and can survive the explosion realy well. Positioning such unit, not to get shoot before Farsight drop is a key, but Other than that, Seems like a great deal. Haemon as Overwatch catcher, and main unit charging.

While Beasts and harlequins are great, Beasts can be shot a bit too easily. Harlequins are good bet aswell, with their Veil, but for spreading out tactic, they seem to be a bit too slow, and don't guarantee to be able to charge at them.

Other try, would be incorporating Warlocks. This is rather gimmicky one, becouse it doesn't have FAQ yet, and there are two group of ppl, who say allies can't take Warlocks, and other that they can. Europe Tourneys allow to take them, becouse eldar rulebook clearly says, that "for each primary detachment in your army" and not "each eldar primary detachment" as it is in Dark Angels codex, regarding Belial and other HQ, making some choices as troops.

With that, removing shrouded from such unit seems to lower their potential by ALOT, and would be way easier to shot down such deathstar, with now only 4+ cover at best (I never allow my opponent to occupy ruins with farsight drop, by deploying my warriors there). Unlike infantry or beasts, jetbiked Warlocks are easy to hide behind Ravagers/Raiders/Venoms therefore they can be screened out from Farsight attacks.

I think running 2 CC units (Archon with grots / incubi, + vect/baron with Harlequins) would work best, but well, requires testing. It's not like I can't deal with it. There are plenty options aviable Wink Just wondered what options worked best for you.
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

Posts : 7558
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

Dealing with Farsight bomb Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Farsight bomb   Dealing with Farsight bomb I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 11 2013, 11:03

@ravenizer wrote:
Other try, would be incorporating Warlocks. This is rather gimmicky one, becouse it doesn't have FAQ yet, and there are two group of ppl, who say allies can't take Warlocks, and other that they can. Europe Tourneys allow to take them, becouse eldar rulebook clearly says, that "for each primary detachment in your army" and not "each eldar primary detachment" as it is in Dark Angels codex, regarding Belial and other HQ, making some choices as troops.

I'm amazed anyone is allowing it. I'd be astonished if it's not FAQ'd. Mind you, I was astonished that it ever got in the Eldar codex in the first place. WTB an Editor!!

_________________
Dealing with Farsight bomb YhBv3Wk
You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
psycheer
Kabalite Warrior
psycheer

Posts : 193
Join date : 2012-10-08
Location : Texas

Dealing with Farsight bomb Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Farsight bomb   Dealing with Farsight bomb I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 11 2013, 15:42

I usually will protect my ravagers and dark lance the unit down, they're all T4.

_________________
The Yacht Club returns!
Back to top Go down
ravenizer
Hellion
ravenizer

Posts : 90
Join date : 2012-12-16

Dealing with Farsight bomb Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Farsight bomb   Dealing with Farsight bomb I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 11 2013, 15:52

A 2+ cover unit? with 14 drones in front of them before you start chewing suits? Well, that doesn't seem the best way to go Very Happy.
Back to top Go down
psycheer
Kabalite Warrior
psycheer

Posts : 193
Join date : 2012-10-08
Location : Texas

Dealing with Farsight bomb Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Farsight bomb   Dealing with Farsight bomb I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 11 2013, 16:06

fair point, i've not come across the 14 drone bit yet.  Definitely seen the bomb, between the Dangerous Terrain tests he should be rolling both (leaving[?] and entering), focus firing, sacrificial assaulting, and assaulting.  It should be considerably impaired, but what's the rest of his army doing?

At the very least kill 5 and force him to fail a LD check.

also, is it 2 drones per crisis suit or 2 drones per crisis suit squad?  NVM lol monoscythe missile them down, 2 large blast S6 will ID kill (2+) them until drone's are out of majority.  The more planes the more fun!  to protect them from being intercepter'd down threaten the squad with something else to where they would need to shoot their next shooting phase.

It's going to suck, he spent 1k on a single unit, use it to your advantage.

_________________
The Yacht Club returns!


Last edited by psycheer on Thu Jul 11 2013, 16:54; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

Posts : 7558
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

Dealing with Farsight bomb Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Farsight bomb   Dealing with Farsight bomb I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 11 2013, 16:33

@psycheer wrote:
NVM lol monoscythe missile them down, 2 large blast S6 will ID them until drone's are out of majority.

Everything in that squad is T4 so no ID from Monoscythes.

_________________
Dealing with Farsight bomb YhBv3Wk
You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
psycheer
Kabalite Warrior
psycheer

Posts : 193
Join date : 2012-10-08
Location : Texas

Dealing with Farsight bomb Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Farsight bomb   Dealing with Farsight bomb I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 11 2013, 16:38

not if the majority toughness is 3 from the 14 drones.

_________________
The Yacht Club returns!


Last edited by psycheer on Thu Jul 11 2013, 16:54; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

Posts : 7558
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

Dealing with Farsight bomb Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Farsight bomb   Dealing with Farsight bomb I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 11 2013, 16:41

@psycheer wrote:
not if the majority toughness is 3 from the 14 drones.

Which it isn't. All Drones, with the exception of Shielded Missile Drones (T6), are T4.

_________________
Dealing with Farsight bomb YhBv3Wk
You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
psycheer
Kabalite Warrior
psycheer

Posts : 193
Join date : 2012-10-08
Location : Texas

Dealing with Farsight bomb Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Farsight bomb   Dealing with Farsight bomb I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 11 2013, 16:45

Dealing with Farsight bomb TheMoreYouKnow

I'll reedit my previous post.

_________________
The Yacht Club returns!
Back to top Go down
ravenizer
Hellion
ravenizer

Posts : 90
Join date : 2012-12-16

Dealing with Farsight bomb Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Farsight bomb   Dealing with Farsight bomb I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 11 2013, 17:01

As for planes, you still forget 2+ cover, and the ammount of drones.

But on the other hand it just struck me! Hemlock! This could proove, to be immense hard counter to that! But still has issues, if it comes too late or before farsight bomb.

And well, not sure about Hemlock efficiency for TAC list vs other lists.


Meh, as always, I keep misreading D-scythe with Heavy d-scythe...
Back to top Go down
psycheer
Kabalite Warrior
psycheer

Posts : 193
Join date : 2012-10-08
Location : Texas

Dealing with Farsight bomb Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Farsight bomb   Dealing with Farsight bomb I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 11 2013, 17:25

I dont care about a 2+ cover save, he spent 1000 points on 1 unit for it. The drone's are fine, just keep them packed closely together and they'll be dealt with through shooting and previously discussed assault tactics.

Just keep him rolling dice (hope for the ones), pick the ones off that arn't in cover (this unit has a sizeable foot print right), force leadership tests, and control the board (against everything else he has).


_________________
The Yacht Club returns!
Back to top Go down
Shadows Revenge
Hierarch of Tactica
Shadows Revenge

Posts : 2587
Join date : 2011-08-10
Location : Bmore

Dealing with Farsight bomb Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Farsight bomb   Dealing with Farsight bomb I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 11 2013, 17:52

Its a one trick pony. Id would compare it to Harliestar... sadly it doesnt have the survivability of Harliestar (or the coolness factor)

_________________
Status:
Usurping Kabal leadership for his Patriarch

Current List:
First 2k GSC List
Back to top Go down
GorlanVance
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 47
Join date : 2013-03-24

Dealing with Farsight bomb Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Farsight bomb   Dealing with Farsight bomb I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 19 2013, 21:28

I'm really confused as to where the 2+ cover save is coming from; they don't get stealth or shrouded, they probably are not going to ground (1000pts units going to ground after only arriving turn two or three is game for you, no question about it). Does Farsight have some special equipment that gives his unit 2+ cover saves? Otherwise area terrain is never better than a 4+.
Back to top Go down
ravenizer
Hellion
ravenizer

Posts : 90
Join date : 2012-12-16

Dealing with Farsight bomb Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Farsight bomb   Dealing with Farsight bomb I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 19 2013, 21:59

Farsight bomb, consist of Farsight, Commander shadowsun , ~ +-7 Bodyguards, from which 2-3 have double fusions, and rest has plasmas, with tons of drones, and one Bodyguard, that has systems, that lets the whole unit ignore cover, reroll to hit, possibly hit&run aswell.

Shadowsun grants both stealth and shrouded, with juicy bs5 fusions.

I don't see a reason to discuss "this is not possible for that bomb becouse blah blah". This was widely tested, and started to shift other tournament lists. Majority of Tau players (and its like 80% of them) in ETC just pick up this list, becouse of how A-bombing it is.

Those are lists of recent 2013 ETC.
www.rankingdernederlanden.eu/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/ETC_2013_Lists.txt

Luckily, my LGS Tau, don't go as far, to get Epistolary Librarian as Ally, for gate & zone, which reduces all downsides of Reserving the bomb. With Gate well, indeed it is 24" jump, but its on T1 for sure, with rerollable Invuls, ignoring cover, ap1/2 stuff that attacks up to any ammount of units in their range. Suddenly, he shoots at umm, all of your transports? like 6-7 if he has range? Now thats what I call a dakka Razz
Back to top Go down
Archon_Demetrious
Kabalite Warrior
Archon_Demetrious

Posts : 114
Join date : 2013-04-28

Dealing with Farsight bomb Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Farsight bomb   Dealing with Farsight bomb I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 19 2013, 22:20

It's sad to see this... Wasn't target lock you had to take a ldshp test sighhhh... N I only faced a baby bomb just with oshavoh
Back to top Go down
ravenizer
Hellion
ravenizer

Posts : 90
Join date : 2012-12-16

Dealing with Farsight bomb Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Farsight bomb   Dealing with Farsight bomb I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 19 2013, 23:13

The good thing is, those farsight bombs made people with mass air (like all cron air, or CSM/Necron lists for mass drakes/scythes, Mass vendettas) shift away, becouse they have little effort to just table them before that.

The bad thing is ... if it's with allies, It's broken. Without SM allies, it's ok'ish. I always try to restrain myself from speaking in absolutes, and forcing to beleive, that there is always a way, but eh, If they take SM allies, I just don't see a way to deal with it in proper way Smile. As I said, my LGS don't go allied route, so at least I have better chances of dealing with bomb Smile.

Fun fact! Each bodyguard hits 3x S5 in melee, shadowsun beeing 4x S4, and farsight himself, beeing 4 S5, ap 2. Those dudes are not bad in melee. Actualy, They are gonna do damn well with many things in CC. And if they engage something that is too scary to fight, they can Hit & run (Farsight I5 makes it hard not to pull off). Wyches are well, not going to at least stall them, especialy, if they have SM librarian. So well, from our arsenal that could work, would be Incubi, Grots, beasts or harlequins.

Also, due to their mobility, and hard predicting of where they will come from, if we count for melee route, than we need 2 melee units at least in our list. So far for me worked Beasts + Archon with grots, or Harlequins with eldrad + vect / archon with beasts. Beasts are realy good all-around, but need to watch out, not to get too many wounds in CC, becouse we actualy want them to fail LD.

Lately I've been going with huskblade/soultrap Archon with 4 grots, with abberation with flesh gauntlet and a homonculus. 2 Pain token unit, which grants them FC, Homun takes overwatch on his back, and on charge I have total of 12 ID attacks, + 4 attacks per other grot with s6. This realy eats through the bomb but with haemonculus, it's taking 2 HQ slots, so it means, no baron for Beasts, or vect/archon for Harlequins.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




Dealing with Farsight bomb Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Farsight bomb   Dealing with Farsight bomb I_icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
Dealing with Farsight bomb
Back to top 
Page 1 of 2Go to page : 1, 2  Next

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

COMMORRAGH TACTICA

 :: Drukhari Tactics
-
Jump to: