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 Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts

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Targetlock
Hellion
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PostSubject: Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts   Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 05 2013, 18:54

Greeting fellow Kabalites Smile 

I'm new to the awesomeness of the dark eldar and need advice and comments for this work in progress 1000pt list. hoping to using with either my Death Guard or even better mywork-in-progress craftworld eldar list as allies.

HQ

> Archon, Shadow field, Huskblade, Ghostplate Armour, Combat drugs: 145
> Haemonculus, Hexrifle: 65
> Haemonculus, Hexrifle: 65

Elites

> 4 Grotesques, Liquifier Gun, Aberration: 160

Troops

> 10 Kabalite Warriors, Sybarite, Blaster, Darklance: 141
Raider: Dark Lance, Grisly trophies, Splinter racks, flicker field, Night sheilds: 95
> 10 Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Cannon, Shredder: 106
Raider: Disintegrator Cannon, Grisly Trophies, Splinter racks, flicker field, Night-Shields 95

Fast Attack + Heavy Support

> Talos Pain Engine, Ichor Injector, Stinger Pod, extra close combat weapon: 125


Total: 997
Models: 30

Any advice, tactics, suggestions or comments would be most welcome. will hopefully post pictures of my army when new camera memory card arrives Wink 
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts   Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 05 2013, 19:16

You play mostly as Marines, don't you Wink

First thought - for the price of dropping one Haem you can get a Raider for your Grot squad, which would help them nicely.

Also, even if footslogging that unit should probably run on Turn 1, and by Turn 2 should probably be in the assault, and if they're not they should probably run again. I don't see much value in the Hexrifles (Also, frankly, Hexrifiles are pretty cruddy in the grand scheme)

Your Raiders are probably too tricked out. they are AV 10 and open topped and both of them will want to get in within around 12" of the enemy so they can use rapid fire. They will not survive. I would trim down their extras to a bare minimum. Probably just FFs and maybe one other.

Splinter racks are of debatable quality. Especially for that unit with the lance and blaster, even if you think they're good they're not much good there.

I think your list suffers from lack of anti-tank. Indeed, with one missile/lascannon it is possible for your enemy to basically kill 100% of your anti-tank power in a single stroke. I would, at least, leave both Raiders with lances. Because unless your opponents only ever field 1 vehicle (maybe 2, tops, and they better be AV 10-11) then you don't have enough lances.

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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts   Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 05 2013, 19:23

Thanks for the help your advice makes a lot of sense and yes i have two marine armies, plus orks so Eldar is a much needed and pleasant change Smile
are the Haemies still worth taking? or should i drop for the transport for the grotesques? will post new list soon.

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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts   Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 05 2013, 19:35

Heres the MK2 version of this list:

HQ

> Archon, Shadow field, Huskblade, Ghostplate Armour, Combat drugs: 145
> Haemonculus, Liquefier gun: 60
> Haemonculus: 50

Elites

> 4 Grotesques, Liquifier Gun, Aberration: 160
> Raider: Dark Lance, flicker field: 70

Troops

> 9 Kabalite Warriors, Sybarite, Blaster, Darklance: 141
Raider: Dark Lance, flicker field : 70
> 9 Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Cannon, Shredder: 106
Raider: Dark lance, flicker field, 70

Fast Attack + Heavy Support

> Talos Pain Engine, Ichor Injector, Stinger Pod, extra close combat weapon: 125


Total: 997
Models: 30

also Incubi available, which would be better them or grotesques? because i like both and it is difficult to choose between them Smile

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts   Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 05 2013, 20:39

@Targetlock wrote:
Thanks for the help your advice makes a lot of sense and yes i have two marine armies, plus orks so Eldar is a much needed and pleasant change Smile
Build your DE more like Orks and less like Marines.

@Targetlock wrote:
are the Haemies still worth taking? or should i drop for the transport for the grotesques?
It depends on what you want to do with the Haems - they cost enough that you should have a purpose for each one you pay for. In your Mk II build you are paying 50 points for an otherwise useless unit to give some Warriors FNP. Is that really helping you enough? What else could 50 points get you? I, personally, do not see how it is helping, and would drop it. At 1000 points, frankly, I'd probably only be fielding 1HQ in any case, and using the saved points elsewhere. Our Troops and Heavy slots are generally better and more useful at that point total than extra HQs.

@Targetlock wrote:
will post new list soon.
You can't get either a S.Cannon or Dark Lance into a squad smaller than 10 Warriors.

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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts   Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 05 2013, 21:09

damn forgot that, should i lose the heavy weapons or the haemies, tricky choice

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Ben_S
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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts   Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 05 2013, 22:10

I agree that you probably don't want that many HQs.

You could drop the second Haemonculus and get a whole squad of five Wracks (albeit without a transport). At least they may be able to grab an objective.
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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts   Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 05 2013, 22:54

hmm always did like wracks Wink scratch build out of some ghouls maybe? Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts   Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 05 2013, 23:45

@Targetlock wrote:
Heres the MK2 version of this list:
And here's my take on your list:

@Targetlock wrote:
> Archon, Shadow field, Huskblade, Ghostplate Armour, Combat drugs: 145
> Haemonculus, Liquefier gun: 60
> Haemonculus: 50
An archon at 1000pts can be very powerful, so you maybe don't need to have so many upgrades. Drop the ghostplate armour at least, it's an unrequired luxury. Consider just dropping back to a cheap venom blade+shadow field if points are tight.
I don't see a great need for any more HQs - you have no wracks, so drop both haemonculi and save over 100pts (this can buy you a 2nd talos; just ask your opponent which he'd rather be facing!)

@Targetlock wrote:
> 4 Grotesques, Liquifier Gun, Aberration: 160
> Raider: Dark Lance, flicker field: 70
Archon goes here I would think. A tiny amount of points buys you a venom blade or scissorhands for the aberration, greatly increasing it's killing power. Spend these points, or drop the aberration. At 1000pts you can easily drop this unit to 3 strong to save points (after all, they're really only there to act as bullet magnets for the boss).
Also, I don't like upgrades on raiders - it's a personal choice, but I say get rid of the FF too. You can easily gain a cover save T1, and this unit doesn't give a damn if its raider explodes (this is known as the 'enemy turn grotesque disembark move')

@Targetlock wrote:
> 9 Kabalite Warriors, Sybarite, Blaster, Darklance: 141
  Raider: Dark Lance, flicker field : 70
> 9 Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Cannon, Shredder: 106
  Raider: Dark lance, flicker field, 70
Dropping the haemi's allows you to upgrade these to 10 men units and make the hvy weapon upgrades legal. I would go with splinter cannon plus blaster for both. Mixing blaster & DL presents a huge threat range difference between 2 AT weapons, whereas a splinter cannon & blaster is ok since they do different jobs. You don't need a sybarite either, as they add little to a low priority target (in this list at least).
Same opinion on FF as above.

@Targetlock wrote:
> Talos Pain Engine, Ichor Injector, Stinger Pod, extra close combat weapon: 125
Talos is good, but this has too many upgrades. Keeping the splinter cannon and picking up a liquifier gun (105pts) makes this into a menace that threatens at short and long range. Add a 2nd one and you have the makings of a winning combination.

Also, if you find yourself lacking troops, you could find points for a little venom squad of HWG wyches. They'll help with scoring and AT, and fit well into most lists.

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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts   Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 06 2013, 12:59

Thanks definitely worth considering, still very new to the Dark Eldar so all advice is very helpful Smile will post new list after considering options.

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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts   Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 06 2013, 13:09

MK 3 Version of list:

HQ

> Archon, Shadow field, Huskblade, Combat drugs: 135

Elites

> 4 Grotesques, Liquifier Gun, Aberration, Scissorhands: 175
> Raider: Dark Lance : 60

Troops

> 10 Kabalite Warriors, Blaster, Dark lance: 130
  Raider: Dark Lance, flicker field : 70
> 10 Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Cannon, Shredder: 105
  Raider: Dark lance, flicker field, 70

Heavy Support

> Talos Pain Engine, Splinter Cannon, Liquifier Gun: 105
> Talos Pain Engine, Splinter Cannon, Liquifier Gun: 105

Total: 955
Models: 30

quite liking this version Thanks Squierboy for the Talos idea, me like :)but where can i spend the last 45 points?

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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts   Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 06 2013, 17:27

If you're playing objectives, I'd suggest a small unit of troops to sit on an objective. Unfortunately Wracks aren't troops without a Haemi, but you could get 5 Warriors 'naked'. I'd replace your Warrior DL with a Splinter Cannon, which gets you a few more points for them.
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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts   Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 06 2013, 17:40

I would not advocate 'sitting' on objectives.
We're a fast army with low toughness and armor. Pretty much by definition we should not 'sit' anywhere.

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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts   Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 06 2013, 19:25

@Targetlock wrote:
MKbut where can i spend the last 45 points?
A few ideas on finishing this list:

1. 3-man trueborn unit with 2xDL. Drop the warrior's DL and both FF on the raiders to make room. This gets you more long range AT & won't necessarily attract a lot of attention because hopefully you have grots & two talos as a big distraction. Obviously it is easy to kill though.

2. 5xwyches,haywire grenades,venom,extra SC (125pts). Some AI, some AT, scoring. You'll have to do a bit more trimming to make the points! I suggest: drop DL on warriors, drop both FF, drop 1 grotesque.

3. Similar trimming will get you a 3rd talos, or perhaps a DL ravager if you are worried about long range AT.

And if you have 5 spare points after tinkering, give the archon haywire grenades. A bit of (cheap) multi-purposing is never bad in smaller games.

Well it's up to you, but that's a few things to consider. You'll have to let us know how you get on once you've got a list together.

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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts   Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 07 2013, 11:49

thanks for the ideas, like the Trueborn idea, didn't realise till i checked the codex that you can have 3 in a unit (though i think maybe a bit too fragile) though a third Talos would be fun Smile couple of questions:

> would a small unit of mandrakes be worthwhile? what are people experiences using them?
> is a Cronos worthwhile as an alternative to the third talos?

will post up another list after considering options Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts   Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 07 2013, 15:22

Mk 4 Wink of this list

HQ

> Archon, Shadow field, Huskblade, Combat drugs: 135

Elites

> 4 Grotesques, Liquifier Gun, Aberration, Venom blade: 155
> Raider: Dark Lance : 60

Troops

> 10 Kabalite Warriors, Blaster, Splinter Cannon: 115
Raider: Dark Lance : 60
> 10 Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Cannon, Shredder: 105
Raider: Dark lance: 60

Fast Attack + Heavy Support

> Talos Pain Engine, Splinter Cannon, Liquifier Gun: 105
> Talos Pain Engine, Splinter Cannon, Liquifier Gun: 105
> Cronos Parasite Engine, Spirit Vortex: 100

Total: 1000
Models: 31

would the Cronos be better than another Talos, rather like the blast template of the vortex Smile


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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts   Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 07 2013, 16:23

You're building like a Space Marine and not an Ork again.

Do yourself a bit of math.
Take a Space Marine force of yours and decide you're playing an objective based game against it.
Do some test shooting against this list with the concept of it being an objective game and you wanting to hurt the ability of the army to hurt you and to score objectives and see what sort of damage you do.
Let me know what you notice.

Boyz before toyz.

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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts   Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 08 2013, 11:25

Mk 5 version of this list Smile after reading through the forum and considering my options, i felt my army was a bit light on the ground.

HQ

> Archon, Shadow field, Huskblade : 125

Elites

> 4 Grotesques, Liquefier Gun, Aberration, Venom blade: 155
> Raider: Dark Lance : 60

Troops

> 10 Kabalite Warriors, Blaster, Splinter Cannon: 115
Raider: Dark Lance : 60
> 10 Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Cannon, Shredder: 105
Raider: Dark lance: 60
> 5 Kabalite Warriors, shredder; 50
Venom: Splinter Cannon: 65

Fast Attack + Heavy Support

> Talos Pain Engine, Splinter Cannon, Liquefier Gun: 105
> 3 Reavers, Cluster caltrops, Blaster: 101

Total: 1001
Models: 30

I like the improved mobility and variety in this new version Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts   Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 08 2013, 16:09

I think the RJB squad is a bit on the small side to really take advantage of the Caltrops - they will have minimal hitting power with their bladevanes regardless, why pay that much for a minor bump?

I'd probably sack the caltrops and shift Shredders to Blasters, if it was me. WOuld also put you legally under 1,000.

Overall I like this list quite a bit better than any of your previous attempts, even with no changes made.

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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts   Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 08 2013, 20:47

Good point, and thanks, now adjusted. i much prefer this version as well, others felt too small. thanks to all for the help with this Smile

Mk 6

HQ

> Archon, Shadow field, Huskblade : 125

Elites

> 4 Grotesques, Liquefier Gun, Aberration, Venom blade: 155
> Raider: Dark Lance : 60

Troops

> 10 Kabalite Warriors, Blaster, Splinter Cannon: 115
Raider: Dark Lance : 60
> 10 Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Cannon, Shredder: 105
Raider: Dark lance: 60
> 5 Kabalite Warriors, Blaster ; 50
Venom: Splinter Cannon: 65

Fast Attack + Heavy Support

> Talos Pain Engine, Splinter Cannon, Liquefier Gun: 105
> 3 Reavers, Blaster: 81

Total: 996
Models: 30

Are heat lances any good? or is a blaster better for the points?

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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts   Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 08 2013, 21:35

Both the heat lance and blaster are good.

Heat lance tends to be better at killing mech as long as you're in metla range.
Blaster is weaker vs. mech, but better protects your unit and gives them a wider area of serious threat.

It's a debate that is still ongoing - there appears to be no clear answer.
I prefer Blasters for the longer effective range and also the ability to threaten instant death when I end up shooting other units than vehicles.

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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts   Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 09 2013, 10:35

I think i will stick with the Blaster due to the better range.

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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts   Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 09 2013, 11:35

Blaster has range of 18". Same as Heatlance except Blaster is at full power from that range already. And S8 vs S6 is better against MC:s and infantry. And firing a vehicle from 18" +assault move usually gets you away from trouble compared to 9" + assault move.


Last edited by Vasara on Tue Jul 09 2013, 11:35; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : should read the second page too)
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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts   Kabal of Sorrows 1000pts I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 09 2013, 20:24

oops, yeah of course, that is what i originally meant with my choosing of the blaster, thanks for pointing that out. i'd rather a have a weapon that is at full power all the time.

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