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 3 lists for tournament (1500 pts) - Duke, Venom Archon, Blaster Archon

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SERAFF
Sybarite
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3 lists for tournament (1500 pts) - Duke, Venom Archon, Blaster Archon Empty
PostSubject: 3 lists for tournament (1500 pts) - Duke, Venom Archon, Blaster Archon   3 lists for tournament (1500 pts) - Duke, Venom Archon, Blaster Archon I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 04 2013, 14:44

I'm preparing for a tournament and I'm looking for an advice. Usually my performance is not great (2 victories of 5 games) so I would like to work on my roster more carefully.

Here is the 1st list. Looks ok, but I think there are little mistakes.

1st list:

Recently I posted this list for your attention, but I still think, it's not a good idea to take 2 full squads of wyches with HWG.
The reason is the following: the 6th and its damned overwatch made the squads too weak to go HtH. At the same time the squads are too big and expensive t be just an expendable anti-tank unit.
The Archon with Venom Blade is also not a great fighter, so this list lacks a mighty HQ.

That's why I made few amendments:

2nd list:


Wyches are now anti-tank kamikazes, one the other side there are 2 Kabalite gunboats, which are quite nasty. The Archy with a blaster I think could do much more than with a Venom blade.
But there are still weak points. I need more balance and I still need a comprehensive Warlord, which can fight enemy HQ.
To bring my wyches to the right place I need to turboboost, so my 2 venoms will lost their 24 shots. Gunboats can shot only at 24" to compensate the loss of firepower.

That's why I called the Duke:

3rd list:


Despite the Duke has mediocre stats, he is still much better, than the archon with Venom blade. And more expensive, so his wych retinue doesn't have HW grenades and any upgrades. But now they can choose better drugs!
I left only one suicide wych squad on Venom and one gunboat. So I think such a roster has more balance.
What do you think about it?


Last edited by SERAFF on Fri Jul 05 2013, 07:21; edited 1 time in total
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SOlyer
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3 lists for tournament (1500 pts) - Duke, Venom Archon, Blaster Archon Empty
PostSubject: Re: 3 lists for tournament (1500 pts) - Duke, Venom Archon, Blaster Archon   3 lists for tournament (1500 pts) - Duke, Venom Archon, Blaster Archon I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 04 2013, 20:13

I think your really getting down the nitty gritty on your list and i like all of your thoughts. Ill just assume your last list you posted is what you are really trying to get some thoughts on.

My only concern really is, Duke should start with some warriors or something with splinter fire in order to get best use out of his poison.
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SERAFF
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3 lists for tournament (1500 pts) - Duke, Venom Archon, Blaster Archon Empty
PostSubject: Re: 3 lists for tournament (1500 pts) - Duke, Venom Archon, Blaster Archon   3 lists for tournament (1500 pts) - Duke, Venom Archon, Blaster Archon I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 05 2013, 07:27

Yes, Duke is better with the splinterborns, but in this case he is too far from HtH. And he can do many goods things in the assault (Duke killed a Swarmlord twice in two different games). His role here is to be better Warlord, then the Archon. By the way I can deep strike blasterborns in the enemy's back line.
(I forgot to add blasterborn Venom in the last list, now correct).

One more thing I forgot to say - I am very limited in vehicles. All what I have is - 4 Venoms, 2 Raiders and 2 Ravagers. No time to buy and paint anything else.
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3 lists for tournament (1500 pts) - Duke, Venom Archon, Blaster Archon Empty
PostSubject: Re: 3 lists for tournament (1500 pts) - Duke, Venom Archon, Blaster Archon   3 lists for tournament (1500 pts) - Duke, Venom Archon, Blaster Archon I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 05 2013, 10:44

List isn't bad. Pretty decent firepower for 1500 pts.

4 venoms, 2 raiders, 2 ravagers.
Adds up to 13 Lances + one squad with haywire. Thats a lot of lances.
Four venoms is solid for 1500, imo. Maybe could use another, but you do have the gunboat.

The Talos is interesting. I've honestly never fielded one, so I can't offer much insight.

The beast pack, even without grenades, should distract some enemy firepower away from your vehicles. Will help, and its cheap. If ignored, it will still cause havoc.

I feel like the only odd thing in your list is the Duke with wyches. I understand what you're going for, but the duke could be worth so much more in a poisoned shooting squad. The gunboat needs to close on the enemy to be effective anyway, so why not trade the wyches in for some more kabalites? If you need to get into hand-to-hand, shoot them to hell with your two gun-boats, then charge. This also brings redundancy to your list with 2 kabalite gunboats.

Dropping the 9 wych raider for a kabalite one will leave you at 1503 points, by my calculations. I'd drop the splinter racks on the other raider. I know it seems great, but you'll likely not get a chance to use it much.
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SERAFF
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3 lists for tournament (1500 pts) - Duke, Venom Archon, Blaster Archon Empty
PostSubject: Re: 3 lists for tournament (1500 pts) - Duke, Venom Archon, Blaster Archon   3 lists for tournament (1500 pts) - Duke, Venom Archon, Blaster Archon I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 05 2013, 12:20

Raiders with warriors have a mediocre firepower and only at mid/close range, where they die fast.
On the other side, wyches are cool as a retinue and a meatshield for my Duke. Taking the Duke with warriors means not to use him as a HtH fighter, he will just sit quiet inside the Raider with his 6" Blast pistol and wait till someone will lost his mind and comes too close.

I would better do the following: I will take these wyches. 10 Warriors will start on foot near their Raider. The Duke starts with them, gives the poison, leaves the squad and then flies away with his wych retinue.
So I will use all of Duke's advantages.

The only question is unclear - can 10 Kabalites start with the Duke on foot and have a dedicated transport (11 models total)?

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3 lists for tournament (1500 pts) - Duke, Venom Archon, Blaster Archon Empty
PostSubject: Re: 3 lists for tournament (1500 pts) - Duke, Venom Archon, Blaster Archon   3 lists for tournament (1500 pts) - Duke, Venom Archon, Blaster Archon I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 05 2013, 12:48

Yes the can since you take the raider for those 10 Kabalites. Deployment doesn't effect the list building stage.

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PostSubject: Re: 3 lists for tournament (1500 pts) - Duke, Venom Archon, Blaster Archon   3 lists for tournament (1500 pts) - Duke, Venom Archon, Blaster Archon I_icon_minitime

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