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Dethdispenser
Kabalite Warrior
Dethdispenser

Posts : 188
Join date : 2011-11-21

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PostSubject: Pure List Trap   Pure List Trap I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 26 2013, 17:51

Has anyone fallen into the Pure list trap?

What I mean by Pure list:
Pure Wych Cult list (Gladiator wych list
Pure Kabalite List (only warriors/Trueborn type units)
Pure Coven List (only covenesque units)

I feel like as of late, a lot of my lists is catered around one of these lists. Granted to say, I can still win some. However, what seems like fun to run, can turn into a nightmare. I feel when I am creating lists, that I am running into a slight writers block.

Has anyone else fallen into this? And if so what is the best way to ween yourself away from this?
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doomseer11b
Sybarite
doomseer11b

Posts : 304
Join date : 2012-10-09
Location : South Carolina

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PostSubject: Re: Pure List Trap   Pure List Trap I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 26 2013, 18:21

I just try and do everything in 3's. I need 3 anti tank, 3 anti infantry and 3 distractionary units just so all my bases are covered. Once you have that you can throw in fun stuff. My lists always include reavers, at least 3 venoms, at least 2 splinterborn (recently have opened up to dark lance trueborn) and usually grotesques pending point values. I have had great luck with this. I launch grots in turn one and let them soak up all the fire, then I poison everyone to death. Reavers with heat lances get back armor or just use them to put a ton of wounds on a VIP squad. 2 ravagers are great for distraction and anti tank obviously. However, I generally focus on troop choices first so they can't score VP. Once that is no longer a threat, focus on wiping them off the board

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Skye26
Hellion
Skye26

Posts : 38
Join date : 2013-01-29

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PostSubject: Re: Pure List Trap   Pure List Trap I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 26 2013, 18:49

@Dethdispenser wrote:
Has anyone else fallen into this? And if so what is the best way to ween yourself away from this?

I fell into this strange pure list kind of obsession thing years ago, with every army i seem to collect, and am yet to find a way to stop, it's almost frustrating building lists to these imaginary restrictions, so if there's a "cure" for this OCD madness please let me know lol

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Thor665
Archon
Thor665

Posts : 5526
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Venice, FL

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PostSubject: Re: Pure List Trap   Pure List Trap I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 26 2013, 20:19

The solution is to find other people playing restricted lists, and then play with them.
You'll have more fun overall.

It's the same sort of situation as someone who refuses to field unpainted units.
They'll be much happier playing someone with the same mindset.

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Mushkilla
Arena Champion
Mushkilla

Posts : 4017
Join date : 2012-07-16
Location : Toroid Arena

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PostSubject: Re: Pure List Trap   Pure List Trap I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 26 2013, 20:28

The thing is with DE we have the biggest excuse to field a mixture of units/themes, as we are not an organised military force but an impromptu raiding party of kabals, cults and covens banded together to pillage and loot real space. Smile

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facelessabsalom
Wych
facelessabsalom

Posts : 661
Join date : 2012-11-17
Location : Freefall

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PostSubject: Re: Pure List Trap   Pure List Trap I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 26 2013, 21:37

I'm knee deep in that trap... Please help me!

If I'ld go competetive, then I think that is motivation enough to refrain from pure lists. Otherwise make a vow to have at least 2 types of each and if you don't and of course stick to it otherwise guilt will eat you up.
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Archon_Demetrious
Kabalite Warrior
Archon_Demetrious

Posts : 114
Join date : 2013-04-28

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PostSubject: Re: Pure List Trap   Pure List Trap I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 27 2013, 02:47

Yea I'm so into this trap... I have about 80 warriors 70 wyches and about 20 trueborn so yes withing 2 years I have in this trap.. Now I'm getting out my box and using reavers( I have 18) ravagers( started with 1bomber and 2 razorwing ) and Incubi ... Soon I hope to start doing grotesques
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DominicJ
Wych
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Posts : 662
Join date : 2013-01-23

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PostSubject: Re: Pure List Trap   Pure List Trap I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 27 2013, 12:55

I could see a pure kabal trap.
Maybe Coven.
But am mightily impressed anyone takes all wyches.

It was my intention to do an all wych list at first, except I was making an exception for Ravagers.

I'm still mostly wych, lots of wyches and reavers, but take an Archon, some trueborn (as a ghetto gunship) and Ravagers too.

But Mushkilla has the truth of it, a DEldar raid is far more a group of randoms grouping for an attack, or joining a planned one, than any sort of high command sanctioned shaping operation.

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facelessabsalom
Wych
facelessabsalom

Posts : 661
Join date : 2012-11-17
Location : Freefall

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PostSubject: Re: Pure List Trap   Pure List Trap I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 27 2013, 14:05

@DominicJ wrote:

But am mightily impressed anyone takes all wyches.

It was my intention to do an all wych list at first, except I was making an exception for Ravagers.

My first list contains: duke, lelith, various sizes of wych w/ or w/o venoms, reavers and ravagers.

But I've yet played with them, but I know they'll be crap :/
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ligolski
Wych
ligolski

Posts : 557
Join date : 2012-12-02

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PostSubject: Re: Pure List Trap   Pure List Trap I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 27 2013, 14:47

Luckily I haven't fallen into this trap, even with me just starting out. I seem to be headed towards a balanced list of all three of those Smile

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darthken239
Kabalite Warrior
darthken239

Posts : 170
Join date : 2013-04-17

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PostSubject: Re: Pure List Trap   Pure List Trap I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 27 2013, 15:28

yeah we've all done it at some point i guess, but that's half the fun. and im taking a mostly coven list to the tournament this weekend. Mostly cause ive just painted up Urien and his body guard of 4 Grots and a cronos. (been using older models recently)

had a practise game last weekend against IG. guy had 3 fllyer's all with 3 TL lascannons. suffice to say game was pretty much over by turn 3
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Thor665
Archon
Thor665

Posts : 5526
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Venice, FL

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PostSubject: Re: Pure List Trap   Pure List Trap I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 27 2013, 16:15

@DominicJ wrote:
But Mushkilla has the truth of it, a DEldar raid is far more a group of randoms grouping for an attack, or joining a planned one, than any sort of high command sanctioned shaping operation.
Though fluff supports that.
Fluff also supports the pure list build as well.

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Skye26
Hellion
Skye26

Posts : 38
Join date : 2013-01-29

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PostSubject: Re: Pure List Trap   Pure List Trap I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 27 2013, 16:17

@DominicJ wrote:
But am mightily impressed anyone takes all wyches.

I did exactly that up until the release of the new Eldar Codex.

Everything i took had to be or had to have been a wych at some point, i ran Lelith, lots of Wyches in venoms with Haywire for tanks, lots of reavers and a couple of Void Ravens.

Surprisingly i didn't do too bad, although i may have killed off a good portion of the cult with the casualties lol

Edit:
@DominicJ wrote:
Void Ravens dont really seem to fit in a wych arena....

Sorry my mistake i ment the other DE flyer, as far as i know it's piloted by ex reavers, who apparently have plenty of money to spend on such things :p

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Plastikente
Sybarite
Plastikente

Posts : 373
Join date : 2012-11-15
Location : London

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PostSubject: Re: Pure List Trap   Pure List Trap I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 27 2013, 17:13

I have the opposite problem: I love the variety of Dark Eldar so much that I want to take one of everything. 1 squad of Wyches, 1 of Wracks, 1 of Warriors, then add 1 Ravager, 1 Voidraven, 1 Talos, 1 Squad of Reavers, then realise I need some HQs, and probably some more scoring units, and the list doesn't really work well as a whole... but I generally play for fun first and foremost.

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False Son
Sybarite
False Son

Posts : 305
Join date : 2012-12-23

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PostSubject: Re: Pure List Trap   Pure List Trap I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 27 2013, 17:37

I generally avoid these kinds of builds for an entirely different reason. Over the years I've seen people's highly specialized collections be rendered useless by edition changes or new codex releases. It is safer to build with a variety of units than to risk something like the Wych Cult players currently flooding the secondary market with Wyches after the 6th edition change over.
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DominicJ
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PostSubject: Re: Pure List Trap   Pure List Trap I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 27 2013, 17:52

Void Ravens dont really seem to fit in a wych arena....

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Plastikente
Sybarite
Plastikente

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PostSubject: Re: Pure List Trap   Pure List Trap I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 27 2013, 18:18

@DominicJ wrote:
Void Ravens dont really seem to fit in a wych arena....

The fluff entry on p47 of the Codex specifically says that Voidraven pilots are veteran Reaver riders, and players usually link Reavers with Wyches because they use drugs and put on shows in arenas, although I don't think they are explicitly part of the Wych cults according to the fluff [waits to be corrected by someone who knows better].

But if you mean "physically fit" in an arena, then you might be right.

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mug7703
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Join date : 2012-09-19
Location : Brighton

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PostSubject: Re: Pure List Trap   Pure List Trap I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 27 2013, 19:34

Isn't an all Kabal list still quite competitive? Typical Venom Spam w/3xRavagers.
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Thor665
Archon
Thor665

Posts : 5526
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PostSubject: Re: Pure List Trap   Pure List Trap I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 27 2013, 20:07

@Plastikente wrote:
The fluff entry on p47 of the Codex specifically says that Voidraven pilots are veteran Reaver riders, and players usually link Reavers with Wyches because they use drugs and put on shows in arenas, although I don't think they are explicitly part of the Wych cults according to the fluff [waits to be corrected by someone who knows better].
That's actually a very interesting question with a few ways to interpret it. I, personally, take them to be Wyches, and feel the fluff strongly supports me. I have had others argue that they are some weird additional group - which, frankly, makes little sense to me, but has some support as well.

Here's the evidence.

They're Wyches: They wear wych suits. They fight in arena competition. In the old codex they were explicitly Wyches. In the new Codex they are not explicitly anything - therefore, old fluff holds.

There are arguments against: Hellions also wear wychsuits - they are not wyches. The arenas are never specifically cited as wych arenas, therefore there are arenas that are not wych arenas (this one really loses me). Are we really saying only ex-wyches serve as air force units in Commoragh? (conversely, are we really saying only this weird sub-cult is the air force?)

For me, the old fluff holds unless it is overruled by new fluff, so to my mind the arenas are Wych arenas and the Reavers are still wyches, and I will choose to personally not deal with 'only Reaver riders are Razorwing pilots' simply because that fluff is slightly nonsensical no matter what you believe Reavers to be. I consider it reasonably likely that they are something of a sub-group within the Cults (like Beastmasters) though in my own head I consider them more integrated.

That said, fluff-wise, there is no clear and unquestionable opinion on that question, and I could argue it pretty functionally from either camp.

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Darklight
Sybarite
Darklight

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PostSubject: Re: Pure List Trap   Pure List Trap I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 28 2013, 06:21

@mug7703 wrote:
Isn't an all Kabal list still quite competitive? Typical Venom Spam w/3xRavagers.
Yep it is, I play that, but I do bring beastmaster and one group of suicide wyches.

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Mushkilla
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Mushkilla

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PostSubject: Re: Pure List Trap   Pure List Trap I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 28 2013, 07:37

They definitely have ties to the wych cults as the toroid arenas are located around the peaks of the wych houses. Other then that they both work in the entertainment industry but that's where the similarity ends.

They don't actually wear wych suits, they wear "a flexible second skin to cut down on air resistance", the only reference to wych suits is in their wargear, which is an understandable simplification. Unlike wyches they don't disallow the use of certain weapons (any weapon is fair game) and they are cheats and liars all.

I doubt any reaver pilot would want to associate themselves with the primitive toils of wyches in the arena, let alone label themselves wych. At the end of the day they are their own sub sect. I did a short span in the RAF reserves, there are no bigger egos than those of a fighter pilot (maybe astronauts) combine this with the Dark Eldar superiority complex and you will get the most confident, proud, independent, ultra-competitive, arrogant, egotistical and self centred Dark Eldar in all of Commorragh!

That's how I see it. Very Happy

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Archon_Demetrious
Kabalite Warrior
Archon_Demetrious

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Join date : 2013-04-28

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PostSubject: Re: Pure List Trap   Pure List Trap I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 28 2013, 13:56

My new obsession is nw Incubi ( 20 on total now) and starting on hellions.. Soon I think I will about 3500 worth of dark eldar( I'm buying 2 more raiders ( for a total of 6) and 1 more venom


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Plastikente
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Plastikente

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PostSubject: Re: Pure List Trap   Pure List Trap I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 28 2013, 14:43

@Mushkilla wrote:
I did a short span in the RAF reserves
I'm sorry to hear that Wink 

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Mushkilla
Arena Champion
Mushkilla

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PostSubject: Re: Pure List Trap   Pure List Trap I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 28 2013, 14:53

@Plastikente wrote:
I'm sorry to hear that Wink 

Best thing that ever happened to me. No regrets. Very Happy

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