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 1850 All Comers- Which list is better/more accomodating to newcomers?

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PainReaver
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PostSubject: 1850 All Comers- Which list is better/more accomodating to newcomers?   1850 All Comers- Which list is better/more accomodating to newcomers? I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 23 2013, 17:38

List 1

Archon w/Blaster, Venom Blade, Ghostplate, Shadow Field- 120
3x 4 Trueborn w/Blaster, Venom 2x SC- 519
5x 5 Warriors, Venom 2x SC- 550
2x Beast Pack w/3 Beastmasters, 5 Khymerae, 4 Razorwing Flocks- 312
3x Ravagers w/3x Dark Lances, Night Shields- 345

(1846- 22 darklights, 96 splinter cannon shots, 25-50 splinter rifle shots, 2x 50 attacks on the charge from beasts; Model Count: 62)

List 2

Archon w/Venom Blade, Combat Drugs, Shadow Field, PGL- 130
2x 4 Trueborn w/Blaster, Venom 2x SC- 346
1x 4 Incubi, Venom 2x SC- 153
4x 10 Warriors, SC, Raider w/ DL, NS and SR- 720
1x 6 Reavers, 2x Heat Lances- 156
3x Ravagers w/3x Dark Lances, Night Shields- 345

(1850- 21 darklights, 2 heat lances, 52-60 SC shots, 36-72 twin linked splinter rifle shots, 12 AP2 attacks by Incubi on charge; Model Count: 59)

List 3 (an attempt at a Mushkilla list)

Archon w/Blaster, Venom Blade, Ghostplate, Shadow Field- 120
1x 4 Trueborn w/Blaster, Venom 2x SC- 173
3x 5 Warriors, Venom x2 SC- 330
3x 9 Reavers, 3x Heat Lances, 3x Cluster Caltrops- 882
3x Ravagers w/3x Dark Lances, Night Shields- 345

(1850- 14 darklights, 9 heat lances, 48 SC shots, 15-30 S. rifle shots, 9-54 S6 caltrop attacks, 9-54 bladevane attacks; Model Count: 46)

Open for criticism for all lists.


Last edited by PainReaver on Mon Jun 24 2013, 04:30; edited 1 time in total
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 All Comers- Which list is better/more accomodating to newcomers?   1850 All Comers- Which list is better/more accomodating to newcomers? I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 23 2013, 20:01

I would say list #2 is the most forgiving to newcomers.

To properly play Beasts takes a lot of knowledge of Look Out Sir, and careful model placement. SO list #1 is out.
A similar issue arises for RJBs, which it is best to ease into playing and not leap right into a list that is all about them. So list #3 is out.
List #2 is very straightforward, has a dedicated assault element (which most newer players like), will help them learn about RJBs without having to master them right away, and also, via the Battleforce, will be fairly affordable to put together as well.

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PainReaver
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 All Comers- Which list is better/more accomodating to newcomers?   1850 All Comers- Which list is better/more accomodating to newcomers? I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 24 2013, 04:24

For list 2 alternately, I can swap out Wyches for one Warrior unit and have an anti-infantry trueborn squad take its place- which saves me having to buy a box of hellions to make incubi.

But is the incubi still better in any case?

to make list 2, megaforce + 3 warrior boxes, 3 raiders, 2 ravagers, 2 venoms and a box of hellions- all for $966.
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mug7703
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 All Comers- Which list is better/more accomodating to newcomers?   1850 All Comers- Which list is better/more accomodating to newcomers? I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 24 2013, 11:20

I would take list 1 but swap the second beast unit for 6 Reavers w/HL. (exactly the same points). I would also lose the Archon for The Baron to ride with the beast pack making them far more effective.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 All Comers- Which list is better/more accomodating to newcomers?   1850 All Comers- Which list is better/more accomodating to newcomers? I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 24 2013, 18:59

@mug7703 wrote:
I would take list 1 but swap the second beast unit for 6 Reavers w/HL. (exactly the same points). I would also lose the Archon for The Baron to ride with the beast pack making them far more effective.

Whilst yes, in each list, i think specials/haemy would often serve better, except maybe 2.

I think Archon's just need a wider range of equipment options, which everyone else is getting for their codexes.
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 All Comers- Which list is better/more accomodating to newcomers?   1850 All Comers- Which list is better/more accomodating to newcomers? I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 24 2013, 21:16

@PainReaver wrote:
For list 2 alternately, I can swap out Wyches for one Warrior unit and have an anti-infantry trueborn squad take its place- which saves me having to buy a box of hellions to make incubi.

But is the incubi still better in any case?
Define 'better'.
Both versions will be good, both will be better at some things than the other list.
I will admit I personally think anti-infantry Trueborn squads are silly - and would just buy other things.
I mean, frankly, if I was building the army then list 2 would lose the Lances and splinter racks off the Warriors, get Blasters, and would probably drop to 5 man squads and then I'd field something else with the saved points.

But that's starting to get into list building which I didn't think was your primary goal.

@PainReaver wrote:
to make list 2, megaforce + 3 warrior boxes, 3 raiders, 2 ravagers, 2 venoms and a box of hellions- all for $966.
I would note a Battleforce purchase would, again, save you money and also provide other useful bits for conversion.
Frankly, with extra reaver heads and polearms from the Raider/Venom sprues could also spare you having to buy the Hellions, again saving money.
Also, that presumes you pay GW standard pricing - never a smart move in my opinion. I don't know about you, but even my FLGS offers a discount compared to GW, much less internet sellers/eBay.

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 All Comers- Which list is better/more accomodating to newcomers?   1850 All Comers- Which list is better/more accomodating to newcomers? I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 25 2013, 07:09

Thor665- I did do an initial pricing with the Battleforce + parts, it came down to $956 with drastically less surplus. (based on gw pricing)

I kind of like the look of the hellion blades, so there's no convincing me there.

As for MSU units, their survivability seems a bit fickle, and i have a reputation for screwing up when i'm commanding lots and lots of units (10+)

I know a local FLGS that does.
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77Rebel
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 All Comers- Which list is better/more accomodating to newcomers?   1850 All Comers- Which list is better/more accomodating to newcomers? I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 25 2013, 13:05

Hi guys. I'm just come back to warhammer 40k with my dark eldars since 1'5 year ago. I'm reading the topic and I like the 2nd choice but I wonder what do you think about using venoms with 5 warriors squads with blaster. The list could be something like that:

Archon (Venom Blade, Combat Drugs, Shadow Field, PGL) - 130
1 x 4 Incubi, Venom with 2 SCannons - 153
2 x 4 Trueborn with 4 Blasters, Venom with 2 SCannons - 346
1 x 6 Reavers, 2x Heat Lances - 156
5 x 5 Warriors with Blaster, Venom with 2 SCannons - 625
3 x Ravager - 315

TOTAL 1725

There are 25 remaining points with which I was thinking that could be used in 2 NS for the trueborn's venom, or the archon's one.

Another list I'm thinking about is the same as above but with 1 more trueborn squad instead the reavers: 1742 points.

What do you think guys?
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mug7703
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 All Comers- Which list is better/more accomodating to newcomers?   1850 All Comers- Which list is better/more accomodating to newcomers? I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 25 2013, 16:11

@77Rebel wrote:
Hi guys. I'm just come back to warhammer 40k with my dark eldars since 1'5 year ago.  I'm reading the topic and I like the 2nd choice but I wonder what do you think about using venoms with 5 warriors squads with blaster. The list could be something like that:

Archon (Venom Blade, Combat Drugs, Shadow Field, PGL) - 130
1 x 4 Incubi, Venom with 2 SCannons - 153
2 x 4 Trueborn with 4 Blasters, Venom with 2 SCannons - 346
1 x 6 Reavers, 2x Heat Lances - 156
5 x 5 Warriors with Blaster, Venom with 2 SCannons - 625
3 x Ravager - 315

TOTAL 1725

There are 25 remaining points with which I was thinking that could be used in 2 NS for the trueborn's venom, or the archon's one.

Another list I'm thinking about is the same as above but with 1 more trueborn squad instead the reavers: 1742 points.

What do you think guys?

This is a great list! I'd say upgrade an Incubi to Klaivex for accepting challenges you don't want to, and then chuck a night shield on their venom.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 All Comers- Which list is better/more accomodating to newcomers?   1850 All Comers- Which list is better/more accomodating to newcomers? I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 25 2013, 18:20

77Rebel- It's quite heavy on the AI, but if you can keep the warriors alive, it will work wonders. 96 SC shots is nothing to be laughed at, but don't expect it to work miracles. Though it will chop up an Avatar pretty quick.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 All Comers- Which list is better/more accomodating to newcomers?   1850 All Comers- Which list is better/more accomodating to newcomers? I_icon_minitime

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