THE DARK CITY
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.



 
HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesLatest imagesNull CityRegisterLog in

 

 Mandrakes. No, seriously...

Go down 
+9
Azdrubael
The_Burning_Eye
darthken239
kingc1313
PartridgeKing
clively
Thor665
doomseer11b
Grub
13 posters
Go to page : 1, 2  Next
AuthorMessage
Grub
Wych
Grub


Posts : 823
Join date : 2011-09-04

Mandrakes. No, seriously... Empty
PostSubject: Mandrakes. No, seriously...   Mandrakes. No, seriously... I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 18 2013, 00:07

So as a long time Dark Eldar player, I have to admit that Mandrakes are the only unit I have not used in a game. Now, according to the grape vine this, seemingly was a wise, well thought out strategy, i.e. Just don't use them.

However, as all will surely agree, the models are just delightful. Because of this reason, I bought some very cheap (£3 for 5) and painted them up to a passable standard- (lighting effects from the flaming hand were fun and effective I must say!)

BUT, this simply won't do! I must use them! But how? I have zero experience in Mandrakes and I would love to hear others thoughts on it! Perhaps if anybody has any fantastic ideas or tactics it would make me feel confident enough to run them in a normal army! However, I am not hedging my bets!

Lurking in the shadows
-Grub

_________________
Delicious and Coven-Baked for your Pleasure

A very slow, 30K Salamander Distraction Log: VULKAN LIVES
Back to top Go down
doomseer11b
Sybarite
doomseer11b


Posts : 304
Join date : 2012-10-09
Location : South Carolina

Mandrakes. No, seriously... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes. No, seriously...   Mandrakes. No, seriously... I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 18 2013, 00:30

I have heard fellow archons speak of using them as distractionary tactics by outflanking them. However, for the cost vs what they put out, I can't find any room for them in any standard lists. Maybe a fun game, but they would still irritate me most likely. I think it was put very well that they're good for the shelf to look at

_________________
"... get me the holy hand grenade!!!! .... 1..2.....5, 3 SIR 3!!!!"
Back to top Go down
https://www.twinlinkedgaming.com
Thor665
Archon
Thor665


Posts : 5527
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Venice, FL

Mandrakes. No, seriously... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes. No, seriously...   Mandrakes. No, seriously... I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 18 2013, 00:33

I suppose if I had to use them - infiltrating into a Bastion to operate the emplacement wouldn't be an embarrassing use of their skills.

_________________
Mandrakes. No, seriously... K93hWhs
Mandrakes. No, seriously... L1RsnGX
The Title Troupe! - Nom fellow posters for custom titles.
Back to top Go down
clively
Sybarite
clively


Posts : 297
Join date : 2013-03-19

Mandrakes. No, seriously... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes. No, seriously...   Mandrakes. No, seriously... I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 18 2013, 00:41

Mandrakes are very difficult unit to work with.  

They can be effective after getting the first pain token (simply for shooting), but prior to that they have issues with overwatch AND causing wounds.  Pretty much the only way I know to use them is as a mop up unit.  In other words, once you've knocked an enemy unit down to just one or two models, then the mandrakes can clean up.

I find it interesting that they were obviously meant to be used in concert with Kheradruakh.  However, Kheradruakh doesn't have infiltrate so you can't keep them together during deployment, meaning they will be out there without a pain token until he shows up. The outrageous points spent on that HQ + the mandrakes can more effectively be used elsewhere.

I had also considered them as bodyguards for a haemi warlord, but they aren't troops.  So I can't keep them back on an objective, whereas Wracks are perfect in this regard.

Another issue is that they just aren't that strong for the cost.  A 5 man unit with a nightfiend will kill, on average, 1 *maybe* 2 MEQ on the charge.  Whereas using slightly less points on incubi (3 total ) will kill 2 on the charge...  And the incubi can take a transport...

I'd say, if they want people to use those models they need to do a few things. Perhaps give them AP2 or AP3 weapons, and give infiltrate to Kheraduakh or at least a special rule allowing him to join a unit during deployment while making them troops. Then give them a special rule allowing them to assault out of deployment. After all, if several armies can completely ignore cover rules then this seems "fair"... Smile

Until then, I'd say use them as a mop up unit in a game you are simply having fun with and don't care about the results.


_________________
Kabal of the Green Hair
Back to top Go down
PartridgeKing
Sybarite
PartridgeKing


Posts : 253
Join date : 2011-11-08

Mandrakes. No, seriously... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes. No, seriously...   Mandrakes. No, seriously... I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 18 2013, 00:48

I too feel your anguish when it comes to our shadowed kin. The models are truly wonderful and the general consensus is that they are awful.

I have fielded them a few times now and I'm not going to lie. They aren't great. With 5 of them & a Haemonculus with Liquifier facing off against 3 marine bikes they succeeded in baleblasting one with Overwatch, then scratched the paintwork for 2-3 losses before fleeing at the end of their first round of combat. Thankfully they weren't run down or that would have been exceptionally embarrassing. Similarly 3 flamers of Tzeentch torched them in one round of close range shooting, and they tend to bounce off anything more than stiff cardboard in combat I find.

However if you are set on using them - which I often am - my favoured tactic is as follows:
Infiltrate them into a nice central piece of terrain within distance for a first turn transport unload. Then in said first turn, have your transport of choice nip over, a Haemonculus jump out and join them and if he's carrying one - again part of my favoured tactic - open a webway portal.

Now you have a baleblasting, feel no pain, move-through-cover, stealth unit - possibly with a nice solid impassable, Line of sight blocking Webway bubble covering a flank - that is nicely central and forward that your enemy is going to have to go around or deal with.

If they are dealing with it then hopefully you'll find the shades soak up fire like nobodies business - helps if you hid them in decent cover and their invulnerable is better than nothing when you need it.
Obviously if you can pull this off on an objective your opponent will come for them hell-bent, but that's a hell that's avoiding anything that actually matters and he'll have to get close to your portal, which will hopefully have something nasty waiting to pop out of it.

It's likely not the best tactic, but I've enjoyed using it, and it seems to play to Mandrakes' strengths... sort of.


_________________
One does ones best.

A stitch in time, saves nine.

---

The Templar & The Alien - Battle Report

---

No Rest for the Wicked, a UK based Warhammer 40,000 LARP
Back to top Go down
clively
Sybarite
clively


Posts : 297
Join date : 2013-03-19

Mandrakes. No, seriously... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes. No, seriously...   Mandrakes. No, seriously... I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 18 2013, 01:34

Ignore the bit I wrote about Kheradruakh.  He's not an Independent Character anyway, so he couldn't join the unit of mandrakes if he wanted to.

So, pretty much your only options are to use them:

1. as a denial unit - assuming you go last, move them near the objective at the bottom of 5th and pray there is no 6th turn.  3 reavers do this better.

2. as an assault unit to mop up a small group of low T stragglers.  Which point for point Incubi and Wyches do much better.  If you include the shooting phase, everything does this better.

3. to infiltrate close to the enemy lines, but hide out until a haemi can show up to give that first token to allow them to shoot...  Which a unit of warriors in a raider will outshine in every single case.

or, my personal favorite which would probably be worth it to buy/paint those models for:

4. to scare your opponent into confusing their target priority.  They will likely never have seen a mandrake before and aren't sure what they can do.  It helps if you talk them up pregame (like how they killed a Hive Tyrant in one round or similar nonsense) then make scary noises during deployment.  Expensive for this, but what the heck, sometimes yelling "boo!" can work to throw opponents off their game.  Consider it a total win if your opponent burns up a shooting phase by pouring everything they have at them.
Back to top Go down
kingc1313
Hellion
kingc1313


Posts : 41
Join date : 2013-03-15

Mandrakes. No, seriously... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes. No, seriously...   Mandrakes. No, seriously... I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 18 2013, 04:33

what about this take some mandrakes infiltrate into cover in the gereal vacinity of the enemy warlord.  have Kheradruakh come in from reserves to hang out with them.  at first opportunity assault mandrakes then send in Kheradruakh at enemy warlord.  i think this would probably bethier best use, as assassins. lol has anyone tried this.

What if you take some hellions with a stunclaw. assault the warlord unit and wisk him away to the mandrakes and Kheradruakh.  best part is, not a character and warlord cant challenge.

_________________
Kabal of the Bleeding Witch
Back to top Go down
Grub
Wych
Grub


Posts : 823
Join date : 2011-09-04

Mandrakes. No, seriously... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes. No, seriously...   Mandrakes. No, seriously... I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 18 2013, 09:09

hmmm, interseting. I do enjoy the scaring tactic. It worked with the Talos a lot although that can take a little more punishment. So how about filling up all elite spots with 10 mandrakes Razz No seriously thanks guys, will take this into account!

_________________
Delicious and Coven-Baked for your Pleasure

A very slow, 30K Salamander Distraction Log: VULKAN LIVES
Back to top Go down
darthken239
Kabalite Warrior
darthken239


Posts : 170
Join date : 2013-04-17

Mandrakes. No, seriously... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes. No, seriously...   Mandrakes. No, seriously... I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 18 2013, 11:34

you could start 10 of them behind an ADL, with a haemy. that way they can shoot anything that gets to close and get a decent cover save and protect the haemy while he hopefully shoots down the necron flyers or the hell turkey's.
Back to top Go down
The_Burning_Eye
Trueborn
The_Burning_Eye


Posts : 2501
Join date : 2012-01-16
Location : Rutland - UK

Mandrakes. No, seriously... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes. No, seriously...   Mandrakes. No, seriously... I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 18 2013, 12:05

Grub wrote:
hmmm, interseting. I do enjoy the scaring tactic. It worked with the Talos a lot although that can take a little more punishment. So how about filling up all elite spots with 10 mandrakes Razz No seriously thanks guys, will take this into account!

I've had a bit of success with Mandrakes - first was when a Tau warlord got a bit too close and I managed to charge him and his two bodyguards with a squad of 10 Drakes, as you'd expect against Tau, they pounded his stupid suit into the dust, but then got annihilated by revenge fire in the next turn.

Second occasion was against tyranids, where they supported my Archon and Incubi against a big bunch of termagants. They did well in combat there, but then got mashed by a Carnifex and ran off. The good bit about that though was that it dragged the carnifex close enough to my unit of warriors for it to be shredded in my next turn.

I think they're best used as a distraction to mess with your opponent's head in the first turn or two as they'll create a bubble that your opponent is unlikely to want anything but hard combat units to walk into or they could be bogged down by charging Mandrakes. Shame they haven't FAQ'd them to allow charges on first turn as that would make them a bit more viable.

_________________
Tan? You're joking, I'm a gamer, you're lucky I'm wearing deodorant!

My Blog - The Burning Eye Blog (check it out - comments always welcome)

My Project Log - Visions of the Burning Eye

My Gaming Log - Chronicles of the Burning Eye

My Club - MAD Wargaming

My Fluff - Kabal of the Burning Eye, Cult of the Shadowed Blade and Coven of Distorted Perfection
Back to top Go down
http://theburningeye.blogspot.com
Azdrubael
Incubi
Azdrubael


Posts : 1857
Join date : 2011-11-16
Location : Russia

Mandrakes. No, seriously... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes. No, seriously...   Mandrakes. No, seriously... I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 18 2013, 18:03

We have some topic around here about mandrakes.

General consensus for die-hard mandrake user - dont inflitrate them!
Use outflank - go for the linebreaker/Deny and go for wounded units. Surely enough you have to have enough shooting to provide those wounded units. Venoms will serve nicely.

When they arrive - run really fast towards piece of area terrain and pretend you are very spooky. If they will assault from there next turn - at least they will have an overwatch protection.

They are a distraction, and not that expensive distraction. Provided enemy will have more pressing concerns they can do their part. Oh, only use units of 10. Anything less is not effective.
Back to top Go down
shadowseercB
Wych
shadowseercB


Posts : 550
Join date : 2012-10-21

Mandrakes. No, seriously... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes. No, seriously...   Mandrakes. No, seriously... I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 18 2013, 18:09

They will just stand around till turn 3 because they cannot charge and to my understanding they wont beable to fire a weapon because they dont have a pain token yet if outflanking.

_________________
15,000 Dark Eldar
20,000 Eldar
7,000 Mechanicum
3,500 Harlequin
Back to top Go down
Azdrubael
Incubi
Azdrubael


Posts : 1857
Join date : 2011-11-16
Location : Russia

Mandrakes. No, seriously... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes. No, seriously...   Mandrakes. No, seriously... I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 18 2013, 18:15

You understand that right. As i say they are a distraction. Hey, shoot those devils with 3+ save. Didnt shot them? Sorry im going to charge those 3 lucky survivors and next turn they will shoot and be more tough. Wasnt enough ? Now they are S5. Shot them damn you!

They will cause some reaction. Is it worth 150 points ? Probably not, but hey, if you are absolutely determined to use them, thats the best of bad plans.

They does cost less then most raider mounted squad. They can get linebreaker. They can contest.

Mandrakes can play as late game unit. They are absolutely pathethic as an infiltrator though.
Back to top Go down
shadowseercB
Wych
shadowseercB


Posts : 550
Join date : 2012-10-21

Mandrakes. No, seriously... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes. No, seriously...   Mandrakes. No, seriously... I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 18 2013, 18:30

"They can get linebreaker. They can contest."

Those are major factors to consider maybe I can try 5.

_________________
15,000 Dark Eldar
20,000 Eldar
7,000 Mechanicum
3,500 Harlequin
Back to top Go down
kingc1313
Hellion
kingc1313


Posts : 41
Join date : 2013-03-15

Mandrakes. No, seriously... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes. No, seriously...   Mandrakes. No, seriously... I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 18 2013, 20:27

i have tried 5 and i have tried 10 if your going to use them go with 10. 5 just isn't effective.

_________________
Kabal of the Bleeding Witch
Back to top Go down
The_Burning_Eye
Trueborn
The_Burning_Eye


Posts : 2501
Join date : 2012-01-16
Location : Rutland - UK

Mandrakes. No, seriously... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes. No, seriously...   Mandrakes. No, seriously... I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 18 2013, 20:42

Yeah 5 just won't cut it, it's not a big enough unit to distract your opponent and doesn't require much concentration if they do decide to shoot at them.

_________________
Tan? You're joking, I'm a gamer, you're lucky I'm wearing deodorant!

My Blog - The Burning Eye Blog (check it out - comments always welcome)

My Project Log - Visions of the Burning Eye

My Gaming Log - Chronicles of the Burning Eye

My Club - MAD Wargaming

My Fluff - Kabal of the Burning Eye, Cult of the Shadowed Blade and Coven of Distorted Perfection
Back to top Go down
http://theburningeye.blogspot.com
Grub
Wych
Grub


Posts : 823
Join date : 2011-09-04

Mandrakes. No, seriously... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes. No, seriously...   Mandrakes. No, seriously... I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 23 2013, 17:25

No. Don't use them.
I used a squad of 10 that outflanked, came beautifully into cover and they achieved diddly squat before being wiped off the board by a flamer, 5++ is no good for the points cost...

_________________
Delicious and Coven-Baked for your Pleasure

A very slow, 30K Salamander Distraction Log: VULKAN LIVES
Back to top Go down
Timatron
Sybarite
Timatron


Posts : 443
Join date : 2013-03-12
Location : Brighton

Mandrakes. No, seriously... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes. No, seriously...   Mandrakes. No, seriously... I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 23 2013, 19:53

How can one flamer wipe out 10 Mandrakes? How bunched up were you? Even if the flame template covered 8 of them you can expect to save 3 with the 5+ Invulnerable save. That means you would still have 5 left.
Back to top Go down
The_Burning_Eye
Trueborn
The_Burning_Eye


Posts : 2501
Join date : 2012-01-16
Location : Rutland - UK

Mandrakes. No, seriously... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes. No, seriously...   Mandrakes. No, seriously... I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 23 2013, 21:18

Seems strange that in the op you seemed really keen to use them, but then write them off after one failure.

_________________
Tan? You're joking, I'm a gamer, you're lucky I'm wearing deodorant!

My Blog - The Burning Eye Blog (check it out - comments always welcome)

My Project Log - Visions of the Burning Eye

My Gaming Log - Chronicles of the Burning Eye

My Club - MAD Wargaming

My Fluff - Kabal of the Burning Eye, Cult of the Shadowed Blade and Coven of Distorted Perfection
Back to top Go down
http://theburningeye.blogspot.com
Grub
Wych
Grub


Posts : 823
Join date : 2011-09-04

Mandrakes. No, seriously... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes. No, seriously...   Mandrakes. No, seriously... I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 23 2013, 22:35

Yeah I was raging Razz Still like the models and fluff but it is easy to see there flaws and why other units are leaps and bounds ahead!
@Timatron - 3 Deep striking Obliterators did the job spectacularly, wasn't bunched up at all just failed every save
Will use them again, but perhaps against non MEQs

_________________
Delicious and Coven-Baked for your Pleasure

A very slow, 30K Salamander Distraction Log: VULKAN LIVES
Back to top Go down
Timatron
Sybarite
Timatron


Posts : 443
Join date : 2013-03-12
Location : Brighton

Mandrakes. No, seriously... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes. No, seriously...   Mandrakes. No, seriously... I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 23 2013, 23:18

Well now I understand. 3 Obliterators is a bit more than a flamer!
Back to top Go down
Azdrubael
Incubi
Azdrubael


Posts : 1857
Join date : 2011-11-16
Location : Russia

Mandrakes. No, seriously... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes. No, seriously...   Mandrakes. No, seriously... I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 24 2013, 06:02

3 obliterators waste their deep striking and turn of fire to kill a mandrakes? ))

Seems to me Mandrakes have done their jobs perfectly.

_________________
The Dance of Death begins - embraces, caresses, and kisses,
The Harlequin loves you as you fall over in pieces!
Back to top Go down
The_Burning_Eye
Trueborn
The_Burning_Eye


Posts : 2501
Join date : 2012-01-16
Location : Rutland - UK

Mandrakes. No, seriously... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes. No, seriously...   Mandrakes. No, seriously... I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 24 2013, 07:23

Good point Az, I'd be quite chuffed if my opponent felt threatened enough to drop obliterators close enough to flame mandrakes!

_________________
Tan? You're joking, I'm a gamer, you're lucky I'm wearing deodorant!

My Blog - The Burning Eye Blog (check it out - comments always welcome)

My Project Log - Visions of the Burning Eye

My Gaming Log - Chronicles of the Burning Eye

My Club - MAD Wargaming

My Fluff - Kabal of the Burning Eye, Cult of the Shadowed Blade and Coven of Distorted Perfection
Back to top Go down
http://theburningeye.blogspot.com
Grub
Wych
Grub


Posts : 823
Join date : 2011-09-04

Mandrakes. No, seriously... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes. No, seriously...   Mandrakes. No, seriously... I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 24 2013, 12:47

They scattered unfortunately! He was aiming to drop them behind a dissie ravager that was churning up marines like butter! But they ended up scattered with LoS blocked with only mandrakes to see

_________________
Delicious and Coven-Baked for your Pleasure

A very slow, 30K Salamander Distraction Log: VULKAN LIVES
Back to top Go down
Zarathustra
Slave
Zarathustra


Posts : 5
Join date : 2013-05-29
Location : CT

Mandrakes. No, seriously... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes. No, seriously...   Mandrakes. No, seriously... I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 25 2013, 02:41

Has anyone thought about putting Illic Nightspear infiltrating with them? Stealth + Shrouded in a forest would mean a 2+ Cover, and if you get a pain token on them they would be even harder to shift in addition to gaining shooting. You could speed up the table, drop a portal and bring in a parasite engine to help them get their token and then just hang out with Illic trying to pin stuff?

Maybe not the most efficient use of points, but just tossing out some ideas to help get the poor forsaken drakes some souls.

_________________
~ Take life away.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content





Mandrakes. No, seriously... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes. No, seriously...   Mandrakes. No, seriously... I_icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
Mandrakes. No, seriously...
Back to top 
Page 1 of 2Go to page : 1, 2  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Mandrakes
» Next to try, 3 x 10 Mandrakes
» Mandrakes
» Mandrakes...?
» are 5 mandrakes useful

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

COMMORRAGH TACTICA

 :: Drukhari Tactics
-
Jump to: