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 A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 40 I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 22 2014, 00:36

Hi! So I have put together an Excel spreadsheet for my own use in creating armies. I find it works better than Army Builder because it's easier to make changes and move points around. It obviously doesn't validate rules so you have to make sure you know what you're about. I'm posting a link to it here so that anyone who might find it useful can use it. There are likely one or two mistakes in the points which are easily remedied. Anyway, download it and check it out if you want. Thanks for looking.

http://www.equinoxtech.net/download/
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egorey
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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 40 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 23 2014, 00:59

How SW beats the crap out of us ...

The Company of the Great Wolf
This detachment does not require troops.Troops do not get the Objective Secured special rule in this detachment anywayy so that's just another reason not to bother with them. So you make the list real assault …

2x Venerables w/ blizzard shield and frost axe, extra armour in drop pods

These are your hammers. you want both to drop on the flank near something important, behind enemy lines. They are 3++ WTF. They are 4 Str 10 attacks. No one will ignore that threat. They cannot. To ensure they get there first turn you add

2x 5Long Fangss in a drop pods (multi-meltas and power weapon)

You want first turn drop pod assault. These squads give you some choices. You want some distractions for your  advancing t-wolves. They are pretty good at grabbing objectives and they are SW so add the power weapon. Long Fangs add some extra ranged AT on the drop and the can be okay in assault too.

But we can add more ...

Murderfang in a pod

Okay he is going to be killed but then they are not killing your Vens and Wolves ... what a conundrum. Unlike the Vens he has no 3++ inv or makes opponents reroll. So they will target him as a likely unit to be killed. Don't drop him first turn.

So now the meat and potatoes

Harald Deathwolf and Wolf Guard Battle leader mounted


Harald adds stubborn to your two big packs. Harald gives the packs LD10. Harald tanks wounds. Harald does not mind flamers. Harald ... you get it right? And the WGBL is no slouch either depending on how you outfit him. He has a good save and he can tank an Look Out Sir to stormshield cav.

The T-Wolves
2x 5 T-wolves w/ 3 Strom Shields and 1 Hammer 1 Axe  

They made these guys cheaper! Yes they did. They eat through anything. Anything!


Okay - no flyer defense at all. Screw it. This the season of maelstrom. Grab your points and run. You are tough and durable.

_________________
Dear GW,
Paper is overpowered. Scissors is fine.
Signed,
Rock.


Last edited by egorey on Thu Oct 23 2014, 16:08; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 40 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 23 2014, 15:45

if they catch us i completely agree they will beat up everything in sustained combat.

However that list is very vulnerable to to any army that can rapidly redploy or any split deployment that can effectively cover each other as you have to split your forces to cover both threats but reduces how hard you will hit.

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egorey
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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 40 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 24 2014, 02:35

So my new Tau list designed by Unorthodoxy ...

TAU Empire Primary CAD - 1402

Aun'Va
Commander  (Vectored Retro-Thrusters, Drone Controller, Command and Control Node, Positional Relay, Neuroweb System Jammer,  Onager Gauntlet
    2 Marker Drone

2x 11 Fire Warriors, (EMP Grenades)
      Devilfish (Disruption Pod)

4 Marker Drones
6 Pathfinders (EMP Grenade, Rail Rifle x3, Shas'ui+ EMP Grenade+2 Shield Drone)
     Pulse Accelerator Drone
6 Pathfinders (EMP Grenade, Rail Rifle x3, Shas'ui+ EMP Grenade+2 Shield Drone)
     Pulse Accelerator Drone
     Recon Drone
     Devilfish (Disruption Pod)

3 Firesight Marksman+3 Sniper Drones
Broadside Shas'ui (Twin Linked Plasma Rifle + Velocity Tracker + 2 Shield Drone)

Farsight Enclaves Allied Detachment - 444

Cadre Fireblade

XV104 Riptide  (Ion Accelerator, Velocity Tracker, Earth Caste Pilot Array . Early Warning Override)

3 x Crisis Shas'ui  (Flamer + Twin Linked Fusion Blaster + Bonding Knife Ritual)

So starting on the board are the broadsides in one corner, the riptide in the other, the commander with marker drones, and aun'va hiding. The rest starts in reserve unless my opponent is foolish and I do not have to lure him to the corners.  

Now J designed most of this list. He assures me that the pathfinders will rarely use the markerlights - they will be shooting carbines and rai rifles unless I have sudden issues with no markers.

Nothing in this list misses - that is the key to J's design. Reserves will trickle in with position relay and recon. One unit of pathfinders will outflank. So really the trick is to get your opponent to go after the units that are very durable. The knife in the glove are the fire warriors and path finders that can do significant damage when ignored.

If you are wondering why the HQs rae where they are - the commander cannot take those upgrades in a FE detachment. And Ain'Va cannot be in a FE detachment. So the Cadre Fireblade must go there.

I like that J designed this list for me without spamming the obvious - riptides, broadsides and crisis.

_________________
Dear GW,
Paper is overpowered. Scissors is fine.
Signed,
Rock.


Last edited by egorey on Fri Oct 24 2014, 03:21; edited 4 times in total
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Unorthodoxy
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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 40 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 24 2014, 02:51

youre missing a unit.

NM:  I see how you notated it.  Spacing threw me.

The list is meant to be an incredibly mobile "frosty" force.  Ity uses the fish of fury concept, but doesnt over commit, preferring to wait until the enemy has separated into its component "pools" before striking.  In addition, this allows the army to deploy in an aroowhead formation and push one side if it is weaker.  If it isn't, the arrowhead patiently waits.

The DuckofDeath is right:  The list never misses.  EVERY SHOT is landing and that makes up for a lot of the bulk it lacks compared to some of its competitors.

It also strikes where it wants to after the enemy's weak underbelly is revealed OR after its overconfidence has led it to disparate sectors of the board.

The army is DESIGNED to go second, yet will not be disadvantaged going first.  Important.  While most forces prefer going first, this one simply doesnt need to.

In round 1:

The Damage put out by the Riptide AND to vehicles by the broadside, as well as the threat they pose to flyers coming in later is too great for most enemies to ignore.  they will come to those corners because failing to do so allows the Tau Empire REALLY uncontested kills for at least two turns.  The enemy wont be able to focus on either target because they are so far apart.  Net result:  they must send away teams out after the two targets and that splits them into three pools minimum by the end of turn 1.  If the enemy chooses to try and outshoot the Tau Empire, may the best Fish head win.

The Drop Pod problem:  Drop pods that isolate themselves by dropping in on the disparate corners are really playing into the Tau hands.  If the enemy does have this ability, remember to deploy the Riptide at the 12" so to speak.  It will push the enemy Pod drop out further or into a dangeous drop behind you.  No matter which way it goes, the Riptide is then able to use the 4D6 jump move to essentially nullify the enemy's proximity and avoid what the enemy INTENDED as an "inevitable charge" and leaving them out in the open.  You wont be able to save the Broadside but he will take a few with him if thats the target he SHOULD be killing.  However it is because of Drop pods that I chose not to over invest in Broadsides.  We need a lure, which must be hard to kill and with superior range to the enemy...not a power house unit.

Round 2:  The enemy has now no doubt lost a vehicle or two and is starting to get stranded, starting to feel its mobility becoming affected.  This sense of a loss of mobility forces the enemy to now break into tyhe fourth pool of units.  Most likely one for rear objectives, one to take forward objectives and the two that are concerned with the corner units.

It is here where reserves will start to come out and play.  Notice that the commander and the Pathfinders have Recon Drones or Positional Relays.  This will give the Crisis teams pinpoint accurate deep strikes while the second unit of Pathfinders could literally come on any board edge if you scout move and then move flat out turn one with the Pathfinder Devilfish.  Needless to say, this allows an enormous amount of sudden and unexpected firepower to rain down on the weakest sector of the enemy.  This and the third round will be very telling on the enemy.  

IN this and the third round will POSSIBLY be when Aun'Va san save a lot of lives using his "pop up" feature from Going to Ground.  It is an EXCELLENT ability.  Esssentially imagine the Pasthfinders coming in and raining 12 STR 6 aP 1 shots plus 32 STR 5 AP 5 shots (24 of them pinning) on an enemy quadrant.  Then when the few enemy survivors go, they are facing units in cover (5+ or 4+) going to ground (4+ or 3+).  Their Drones ablate some of the wounds.  Then on their next turn Aun'Va pops them up and the Pathfinders ROLL whatever is standing in their way in the subsequent turn again.  Its devastating.  They will likely get to do this for two rounds to the enemy before REALLY feeling the weight of enemy fire.  Why?  Becaue theres a Riptide that NEVER misses and a group of Fire Warriors that NEVER MISS that the enemy is also concerned with.  Even if the enemy wished to focus fire on the Pathfinders, terrain, vehicles and the sudden avalanche of Tau Empire fire power is going to be compounuded by the fact that the enemy is largely divided up into pieces that simply cant support all their buddies anymore.

In this way will we conquer:  Forcing the enemy into UNenviable decisions, NEVER missing, always being where we need to be and by the time we start to miss, and our Marklerlight support is growing thin, it's too late.  The damage is done.

Few other notes:  LOTS of EMP grenades make any armored assault an iffy propositon.  though the army is very much geared to killing infantry, we have certainly NOT forgotten vehicles in the list.  Not only can the carbines pop light vehicles, but the EMP grenades certainly can.  The Broadise, the Monstrous creature, and the STR 6 AP 1 rapid firing weapons all have a very good chance of making a serious dent in an armoured column, so the army may not boast 30 Dark Lances...But it will feel like it does.

_________________
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War


Last edited by Unorthodoxy on Fri Oct 24 2014, 03:31; edited 2 times in total
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egorey
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A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 40 Empty
PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 40 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 24 2014, 02:59


I never make mistakes, J. I get the glove and knife here. I see the bait and counter

_________________
Dear GW,
Paper is overpowered. Scissors is fine.
Signed,
Rock.
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Unorthodoxy
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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 40 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 24 2014, 06:50

Kay. Well the tactica kind of explains how it works anywho. Comments are welcome.

_________________
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
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egorey
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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 40 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 24 2014, 10:38

The tactica helps a lot. I will really have to be on my best game here as the list does not have the usual Tau crutches. It relies on me reading the deployment and set up correctly and then responding with the proper placement of my force on the table and correctly assessing my threats turn one and choosing what is to be reserved.

The list is fragile. I see why there are so many shield drones in lieu of gun drones. I'm likely going to need them. And turn two I will snap shooting a bit as I'm arriving from reserves. I expect that is why the list is replete with marker lights, lol. And the GtG moment will have to properly assessed and executed.  

The issue with marker lights is keeping them alive. They have a range of 36". So positioning those squads will also be fundamental to the list success. If the marker light squads are taken out I will have a problem. As much as i want to use the PFs solely for damage output I might have to fire of some marker lights over the course the game.

I see  the list doing quite well against most lists depending on terrain and mission and my own skill. It will at least offer a challenge and is not the typical Tau gunline  - click and shoot. I like it. It will make me a better player mastering it.

I would also mention that in chat people are still of the opinion that Tau are strictly a gunline force and OP. New maelstrom missions and scoring vehicles, the loss of eldar allies and new MC rules have all contributed to taking Tau down a peg. So having your own scoring vehicles and a bit of speed is what Tau needs to just stay afloat today.

Of ocurse Tau's ability to get a solid and reliable BS increase, it's the ability to remove cover very easily with any weapon (rather than just the specific two or three 'ignores cover' weapons most codices have) plus Supporting Fire are all reasons people hate Tau and that perception will not end any time soon. But they are not Eldar wave serpent spam, are they?

The best Tau lists from last edition no longer exist. Gunlines are weaker in 7ed. Also literally no phsycic defense outside one item in the Farsight Enclave leaves a lot to be desired with Psychic heavy armies. So Tau are not what they weere and people crying cheese have to learn to adapt. Eldar, Daemons, Necrons even Guard are arguable as strong if not performing better of late.

I'm glad J did not design a gunline army that sits back and just shoots and dares you to assault into supporting fire. That is so boring. This list does shoot but you have to get active. Crisis suits are elegant and a lone riptide is hardly OP. It is true that kroot are no longer a staple of tau lists. I do miss them. But FW with supporting fire and a fireblade are simply better in most cases.

_________________
Dear GW,
Paper is overpowered. Scissors is fine.
Signed,
Rock.
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Unorthodoxy
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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 40 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 24 2014, 20:00

One of the primary advantages of the Markerswarm is that they are Tough 4, and jetpack RELENTLESS plus a 4+ save instead of Recon armor 5+.  That is a big deal.  Being able to sucker someone over, then moving away with the Drones+Commander still firing is awesome.

Also, the list isnt fragile in this way:  it isn't taking that MANY hits early on and it only dishes them to sectors that wont be able to respond very much.  So the return fire is SLOWER against this army than it would be with some Tau forces.  Thinks about a 72 inch board.  When Im on one end of it, it invalidates a lot of weapons and if I am getting the jump on whats closest o0n that end, I can obscure the lines of sight to me from other weapons via wreckage.  So it is entirely possible to strike and not be struck significantly in return when playing from that direction.  It wont work out like that all the time.The enemy spent points too, and they are likely to be no dummies.  But the good news is, the more they fragment their forces to either side to bolter both the easier time you will have when they realize that lateral movement wont get them to objectives.  So its a catch 22 for them:  they split up knowing they wanted to squash the outflankers when they showed up, but now they realize that time is ticking and they have to ALSO go forward.  And if they've done too good a job on their lateral defense, then you can simply outflank way in front of them and leave them to rot over there until they are more willing to walk into the Briar rabbits tarpit.

Tau posess 4+ armor which is fairly decent.  So as long as you utilize your Devilfish Drones (an underestimated element of this force because they can cut people off and lengthen their charges for you) and the drones in the unit, and make sure you're going to ground at the right time...  

When the Arrowhead formation is skimming along, it provides pretty valuble cover and stops assaults.  So there is at least two turns there where the enemy gets stuck in front of that massive bunch of STR 5 shooting.  Most enemies cant weather two rounds of it.  They will want to kill you at range.  The Broadside and the Riptide are pelting the enemy's ability to reach you at range and forcing the issue.  They will be firing at long range vehicles and the like to kill enemy range.  And as i mentioned...they will never miss.

The Commander can take hits for the Drones.  That is why I liked having a stim injector on him.  But of course, points are tight.  Play a few games with him and see how strongly you feel about the stim or even the irridium.  I've liked the Stim in my games, but it definitely is not a must have.  A single Disruption pod might be an okay trade for it though?  I'll maybe ponder that some more.  The arrowhead formation does provide cover.  the furthest Devilfish can perhaps afford to go without one but...  anyways food for thought.  Jinking with +1 cover is pretty sweet though.

It's just heartier than it might look.  But I will try and illustrate this when I do the battle Report.  I am considering either an FMC opponent or a Wave Spam opponent for the test game.  It makes sense to do that before I start getting paint all over.  Maybe both.  I'd like to see it do well against those two lists.

_________________
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
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helvexis
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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 40 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 24 2014, 23:51

id like to have a go against it, would be alot of fun
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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 40 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 25 2014, 00:17

VASSAL, baybay!

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Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 40 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 25 2014, 13:20

So we were discussing this - Eldar main - add grotesquerie (something Eldar lack) - add haemie with wwp and hexrifle. Now Grots will be fearless quick - no need for haemie. Place heamie with guardians and a phoenix lord ( lots of good choices). Add Seer or autarch (if not autarch you will need coms relay somewhere). The rest odf the list can be anything - does need wave serpents -it should have some bikes and certainly swooping hawks/spiders. The grots go in raiders with aethersails and dissies to speed up table quickly.

So you have three fearless units now on the table turn two and in your opponents grid. Your opponent will have to deal with a large guardian squad so the grots squads should be okay until all the bonuses kick in and the haemie can join the groyts turn three/four if you want and the phoenix lord can detach also if needed. Then drop in your spiders or hawks. Rather simplistic but I think effective ---

So a small little challenge - build an 1850 list around the concept of allied grotesquerie - how would you do it?

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Signed,
Rock.
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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 40 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 25 2014, 18:27

egorey wrote:

So a small little challenge - build an 1850 list around the concept of allied grotesquerie - how would you do it?

Any limits on the number of detachments?
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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 40 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 26 2014, 01:58

Nope - do whatever.

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Rock.
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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 40 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 26 2014, 14:29

So i'm trying to come up with as coveny a list as possible and here's what I have. As you can see, I am using the grotesquerie formation from the coven supplement.

haemonculus, wwwp, scissorhand, 4 grotesques, aberration w scissorhand
3 grotesques, aberration w scissorhand, raider w dl & sails

3x10 wracks on raider w dl
5 scourges w 4 hwb
9 mandrakes
3xtalos w chain flails
1648 pts

I will be facing SW if that makes any difference.
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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 40 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 26 2014, 15:23

So your list is not legal ...

Try this ..

Grotesquerie
Urien Rackharth
2x 4 Grotesques, abberation, agoniser, raider, sails NS

Scalpel Squadron
2x 5 Wracks, ossefactor, venom, dual cannons

Dark Artisans
Haemonculus liquifier, wwp
Talos, SC, Ichor
Cronos

This a real quick fix keeping most of your units and being all coven. It would be fun  - not sure how effective it will be but it comes in just over 100 pts. Now you can add a DE CAD - lahmean in a venom, couple of warrior squads in venoms, some scourges. So not all coven but close enough.

-------

https://www.thedarkcity.net/viewtopic.forum?t=11014

_________________
Dear GW,
Paper is overpowered. Scissors is fine.
Signed,
Rock.
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