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 A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics

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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 21 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 28 2014, 11:10

Couple of friends went up to Warhammer World for a Battle Brothers event at the weekend. Unsurprisingly they said there were Knights and AM everywhere!

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egorey
The Duck of Death
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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 21 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 28 2014, 14:54

I was pleased to see that Grey Knights/SW actually won the doubles at battle brothers ( even though we all know GK does not have battle brothers right?) featuring dual DKs. GK lists have been relegated to the shelf lately but DKs are still quite a formidable list. It also had a Rune Priest which I've talked about as well ... Rune Priests are very strong in today's meta with spammed divination, Tigerius, Loth combos, etc. I had been running a Iron Wolves list for awhile with
2 biker Rune Priests, biker Chapter Master, 5 Grav bikers (as troops) and a squad of GH to satisfy the allied requirements. The mini deathstar was quite efficient as the ICs could all detach if needed.

My two current lists which I play more than any of my armies are:

GK Primary
Lord Kaldor Draigo 275
Soladin, Mastercrafted Thunderhammer 60
2x Soladin, Daemonhammer 110
2x Stormraven, TL Assault Cannon, TL Multi-melta, Psybolt 450
Nemesis Dreadknight, Heavy Incinerator, Teleporter 235
Nemesis Dreadknight, Heavy Incinerator, Nemesis Greatsword, Teleporter 260
Fortification
Imperial Bastion, Icarus Lascannon 110
(1500)

Don't be fooled by the apparent lack of scoring. Both DKs generally score, one soladin sits in the bastion firing away. The list took off when I added the bastion. It made a big difference in protecting my troops and units until I was ready to spring forward and do some damage. Also psychic communion is huge. And Draigo is as close to an MC as you are getting in regular infantry.

GK Primary
Lord Kaldor Draigo 275
Soladin, Mastercrafted Thunderhammer 60
2x Soladin, Daemonhammer 110
2x Stormraven, TL Assault Cannon, TL Multi-melta, Psybolt 450
2x Nemesis Dreadknight, Heavy Incinerator, Teleporter 470
Imperial Knight Detachment
Knight Paladin 375
Fortification
Imperial Bastion, Icarus Lascannon
(1850)

What can I say. An Imperial Knight is a natural fit in this list. Twice I have managed devastating catastrophic blasts that have destroyed opposing forces. And the heat he takes away from the rest of the list is just golden.

Bring it on ...

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Signed,
Rock.


Last edited by egorey on Mon Apr 28 2014, 20:13; edited 1 time in total
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ligolski
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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 21 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 28 2014, 16:37

On a hobby related note, I'd like to draw attention to this thread I started: https://www.thedarkcity.net/t9173-new-territory-starting-an-adeptus-mechanicus-themed-ig-army

It is an exploration of how I plan to build my Adeptus Mechanicus themed army! I'd love anyone and everyone's input on this!

Later today I will post an idea on Marines with IG allies and how that could be a brutal thing to come up against.

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egorey
The Duck of Death
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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 21 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 28 2014, 20:42


So as we discusseed in chat with Ligs and Blade ...

HQs - 555
Karandras 230
Irrilyth 220
Baron 105

Troops - 579

2x 5 Dire Avengers: Wave Serpent, Scatterlasers, Holofields 400
12 Kabaklite Warriors; Splinter Cannon, Sybarite 128
3 Windrider Jetbikes 51

Fast Attack - 436
7 Warp Spiders 133
Beastpack: 4 Beastmasters, 20 Khymerae 303

Heavy Support - 210
3x 1 Warwalker, Starcannons x2 210

Fortification - 70
Aegis Defense Line: Comms Relay 70

This is a WTF kind of list. Karandras can infiltrate or outflank one squad ... it can be Spiders, Warriors or Beastpack. He is not tied to the squad either. He can detach at any time. Irrilyth will get night fighting 75% of the time and scout. If she gets scout she can do so with the warp spiders for first blood (otherwise Karandras can infiltrate them for first blood). Both provide cc prowess, fearless, and buffs to their respective squad (hit and run, split fire, etc.). The whole list is in play by turn two and turn one begins its assault on its opponent. Warwalkers should outflank the majority of matches but with battle focus and against certain fores can certainly start on the table. But the starcannons are built for outflanking.

The list has a bit of everything - cc, AT, AA, reserve manipulation, tactically flexible deployment and defense if necessary. It is meant to pick a flank and tear it apart. It is mobile enough to reposition at any time with 3D6 H+R, 12" movement, and skimmers.

The list really came about with the idea of abusing some of the lesser used Eldar HQs. I could easily switch out Irrilych for Illic and add some extra troops and shooting if I wanted to for the points. But this is really a template that can be adjusted to suit.

_________________
Dear GW,
Paper is overpowered. Scissors is fine.
Signed,
Rock.
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Brom
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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 21 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 28 2014, 21:01

Hey duck I like the list, although I know how easily even 20 khymera can be dealt with from a proper ranged opponent without fortune.
I'd really like to see a shadow council list with Irillyth to abuse terrify and shadow of death.. not to mention what multiples of hallucination plus puppet master would do. Any ideas here?

In the meantime It seems this is the place for unorthodox lists so try this on.. my bro and I have been testing it to try and catapult his smelly greenskins into competitive range:

Mad Morx- beyond thundork dome..
(codex orks + dread mob allies)

mega warboss, mega armour, pole, kombi skorcha 110
mega warboss, mega armour, pole, kombi skorcha 110
pain boss, syringe/slugga, eavy, pole 60

ELITES
mekboy junka, deff rolla, 3 bs, 2 grot bomms 95
mekboy junka, deff rolla, 3 bs, 2 grot bomms 95
12 lootas, deffguns 180
12 lootas, deffguns 180

TROOPS
10 ork boyz, shootas, trukk 95 
10 ork boyz, shootas, trukk 95
10 spannas, shootas, trukk 95

FA
deffkopta 35
deffkopta 35

HS
13 lootas, deffguns 195
3 big gunz, 3 kannons, 2 ammo runt 64
3 big gunz, 3 kannons, 1 ammo runt 63

FT
void relay network, 2 generators- 3/3 shields, 1 promethium pipe 240

1748

Plan is simple.. bunker and shoot their anti tank while they lose a war of attrition vs your shields. These things are basically 24" square open topped chimeras with IWND and 3 HPs each that fit your whole army..Lol.
Deff rollas and mega bosses threaten anything that gets too close to assault and/or is av14. kombi skorchas are cheap relentless torrent flamers for infiltrators etc.
Artillery hunts hidden troops or also their light armour in a pinch and prevents them utilizing terrain to its fullest.
Lootas erase 3 targets a turn. One unit can even be scoring in big guns.
The 2 void shield gens are put center to overlap like an onion.
Koptas fly out last minute to contest/control, get linebreaker etc.
Put lootas inside 2nd floor of ruins if at all possible and try to keep your opponent from setting terrain to limit your LoS.
Warning: This list WILL cause rage quitting.

Edit- list updated to reflect the latest evolution.


Last edited by Brom on Fri May 02 2014, 20:50; edited 4 times in total
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egorey
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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 21 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 29 2014, 01:04


brom wrote:
'd really like to see a shadow council list with Irillyth to abuse terrify and shadow of death.. not to mention what multiples of hallucination plus puppet master would do. Any ideas here?

Anything for you buddy. Here you go ...

Shadows and Ghosts Oh MY

HQs - 585
Irrilyth 220
5x Spirit Seers, Spear of Teuthlas 365

Troops - 447
7 Wraithguard, D-Scythes 294
3x 3 Windrider Jetbikes 153

Fast Attack - 508
8 Warp Spiders 152
9 Warp Spiders 171
Hemlock Wraithfighter 185

Heavy Support - 240
Wraithknight, 2 Wraithcannons 240

Fortification - 70
Aegis Defense Line, Comms Relay 70

(1850)

Well here you go. You can start Irrilyth with the Spirit Seers and Wraithguard or start her with a squad of Warp Spiders for first blood. You can then detach her to the big Writhguard unit. The Spirit Seers and WG always start together.

So as requested we are going to spam some powers hoping to break down morale for when the Wraithfighter arrives. We have a few choice powers to choose from here. Hope for renewer/battle focus combo on the WGs and WK. If quicken is rolled take it. This guys will be moving down the table with speed. Irrilyth rocks. Good save, great weapons, nifty little abilities (scour, nightfighting, hit and run and split fire). She may become a favorite. With renew she is beastly. She can tank a few shots and she will renew his wounds . The unit is quite fast with battle focus. It is more than possible to get quicken, renewer and battle focus on the unit. Now, you will sometimes not get your psychic power off. But the odds are good to keep the wall functioning.Of course if you get your batlle focus powers early you can then switch to book powers and really go to town with hallucination and puppet master.

Now the Warp Spiders and Irrilyth can start together and x=scout and try for first blood. You can always move her back into the WG squad. The WK is a push back unit and the Writhfighter is just the icing on the cake. We want that comms relay and the bikes can hide behind it if needed too. With the bikes spiders we should have a shot at linebreaker.

AND BROM ... check out my Ork list ...

https://www.thedarkcity.net/t6960p160-a-tdc-blog-tactics-unit-analysis-batreps-observations#top

Second thread - no you do not make friends using FW orks, lol.


_________________
Dear GW,
Paper is overpowered. Scissors is fine.
Signed,
Rock.
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ligolski
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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 21 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 29 2014, 03:47

Ok as promised here is a Marine + IG list that has some good potential to play competitively. I've added my own twist though with some spammed artillery support.

White Scars traits

Chapter Master (shield eternal, bike, artificer armor, thunderhammer)
3x 5 bikes (2 grav guns, combi grav)
2x Thunderfire cannon

IG ALLIES:
Yarrick
2x Primaris Psykers (lvl 2)
3x Priests

Platoon: 4x 10 guardsmen (lascannon, power axe) and PCS (4 flamers)

Wyvern Battery (2 wyverns)

Aegis with quad gun
1850 pts


This is a BRUTAL list. There are some things that you can spice to your preference. 3 priests may be a bit much but makes the blob hit even harder with more AP2. You put the CM at the front of the blob and tank everything. In CC, with priests allowing a rerollable invuln, you are golden. Furthermore, you have 4 lascannons prescienced and a ton of lasguns. That's not even mentioning the fact that we have 15 bikes running around that can lay down terrifying grav fire to rip apart wraithknights and the like. Last but certainly not least, we have the thunderfires and wyverns. Most will prefer not to go at this list that way and that's fine. In this configuration this list lays down 16 small blasts. You can wipe out blobs, tough infantry, w/e. Weaken the army, cause some pinning as your bikes and blob apply a vast amount of pressure.

Personally, I could field a chunk of this list but I would switch out bikes for a tiggy cent star to supplement the blob.  The blob can add a lot to many different kinds of lists and is only made better when you are battle brothers. A marine character can give the squad ATSKNF which is awesome...you could potentially drop priests if you wanted for this ability alone...take another psyker if you wish.

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wanderingblade
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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 21 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 29 2014, 08:58

Brom wrote:
Hey duck I like the list, although I know how easily even 20 khymera can be dealt with from a proper ranged opponent without fortune.
I'd really like to see a shadow council list with Irillyth to abuse terrify and shadow of death.. not to mention what multiples of hallucination plus puppet master would do. Any ideas here?

I hit upon the idea of using Irillyth for stuff when trying to come up with a good way of getting a Haemonculus with the Crucible of Malediction up close to a psyker heavy Deathstar with a good chance of it doing anything.

A Beast Star seemed the ideal delivery vehicle; but obviously, Haemonculi mean either no Baron or DE Primary, which means you needed another source of Hit and Run, and I remembered Irillyth then saw Shadow of Death.

Irillyth is a beast. I'd been waiting to try and get something solid down before pontificating, but Irillyth is - on paper - a stone cold killer. Only Karandras has a nastier charge - S6 AP2 is the sweet spot at which most things get sat down - and only Fuegan has a scarier gun, although Irillyth is probably more versatile.

Excellent native mobility. Hit and Run is obviously fantastic. A 3 in 4 chance of getting Night Fighting is pretty sweet. Preferred enemy in all turns when Night Fighting is in effect is really useful for an Alpha Strike if you get it - combining it with a Corsair Prince would be hilarious if a little niche; get a Guardian blob into position, trigger Night Fighting off the Prince, then fire all the Shuriken catapaults at one target and the lances and Irillyth's gun at another, all with Preferred Enemy.

I'm not sure on what the best use for Irillyth is, but I'm pretty sure you could do serious damage using it.
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egorey
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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 21 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 29 2014, 16:31

THE DUCKDRAKE CHALLENGE

So one of my favorite IG units is Rough Riders. In the past they worked becuase you could upgrade one to Moghul Kamir. Poor Astra Militarum - no upgrade character (hopw for a dataslate)

Still -Rough Rider Lances give a +2 boost to initiative which means that RRs hit BEFORE Meq in combat. They still have Hammer of Wrath and a nice +2 Strength buff on that first charge. A unit of 10 RRs get 11 attacks base, 22 on the charge at S5 AP3, + 10 Hammer of Wrath attacks. For 110 points that's not bad.

So what if we took some biker RPs as allies and added in a troop (your choice). RPs have some excellent buffs and can always be detached from the squad. Psychic defense, I hear is good now, living lightning is great, we all know jaws. No we do not get H+R here .. meh. alternatively a CM white scars biker could be ypour ally - I prefer RPs myself but ... YOU design the list. That is the challenge. Will there be a prize? Who knows. Let's see a list first.

hint #1

HQ: Company Command Squad: 2 Flamers, Momento Mori, Power Fist  [135]
Troop: Grenadier Strom Brigade: 2 Plasmaguns, Chimera, Dozer Blade [230]
Fast Attack: Deathrider Platoon: {240]
PCS: Commissar, demo charge
Death Rider Squad

Total: 605

This is a legitimate allied detachment to IG.

hint #2

Cypher can be added for outflank - you do not need Creed ...hmmm ... getting any ideas now?

So some cool prizes available:

SW codex
Old Chapter Approved with the army list - so cool
Old Eye of Terror Codex
Warmachine Prime
Warmachine Hordes - hard cover
Nice terrain pieces

_________________
Dear GW,
Paper is overpowered. Scissors is fine.
Signed,
Rock.


Last edited by egorey on Wed Apr 30 2014, 17:40; edited 5 times in total
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Brom
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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 21 I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 30 2014, 05:02

Damn this thread is full of awesome. I can't believe I missed just how good irillyth is, I agree she may become a favorite. I'm going to test her out in a couple days. I like the list btw duck, have you found maintaining majority toughness to ever be an issue? How would a list look that included DE for beasts?
On the fw orks list I've actually faced similar except only 6 grot bomms 2 supa kannons among other things, but that itself was brutal. Even the new IG only wishes they had ordnance barrage like grot bomms n deff rolla spam!

Ligs that list is savage but I just don't see the adl being better than void shields, do you? forcing someone to crack cheap recurring armour is just so good. Some people simply fold to the one sided fire fight plus it denies first blood much better and even protects assaults when deployed up to midfield. I'd be interested in more discussion from this blog's contributors on void shields actually. I've just found them to be incredibly strong for the investment with the only requirement being a decent backfield presence.
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ligolski
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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 21 I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 30 2014, 13:35

Thanks Brom! I think we've talked a decent amount in the past on void shields. They are extremely powerful, especially with the right army. I agree it could make my list very durable, but I would argue that I need the AA with the quad gun and furthermore, I can hide the blob behind it and gtg if I pop the priests out of the squad if needed. I will certainly try to keep the void shields among other new fortifications in mind when making lists Smile

Also duck, I'm in on the challenge. Here is my submission:

Yarrick
priest
lvl 2 psyker
Infantry platoon (4x10, 4 lascannons, 4 power axes) pcs
2x10 vets (3 plasma guns, chimera)
10 rough riders
 2x 5 RRs (2 meltaguns),    

WHITESCARS: Chapter master (bike, shield eternal, thunderhammer, artificer armor),
2x 5 bikes (combi grav, 2 gravguns)


EDIT: I should explain how this list works.

The idea is that platoon takes center stage as the main target and worry of your opponent and goes for midfield control. Vets in chims choose a flank and are supported by the rough riders. The 10 man RR squad has the CM to tank shots so it can remain effective and aims to support the vets in capturing/pressuring other objectives. The squad will counter attack units that stray too close to the vets allowing them to continue to throw down plasma fire. The meltagun squads hunt tanks and can even go for Imperial Knights as they are mobile enough to cover multiple flanks and get their quickly. They will most likely run close to the bikes.

The nice part about a good portion of the list is the ability to re-position quickly as everything but the blob can move 12" at any time. That is a good bit of mobility for guard considering you will control mid field with that blob.

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Randozart
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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 21 I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 30 2014, 17:39

I had some interesting conversations in regards to Rough Riders with Unorthodoxy yesterday. This led me to also consider building a list that may or may not in fact fancy you. Challenge accepted? Ah, why not?

The main idea of the list is to make use of a threatening hammer that moves towards the enemy coupled with ensured face removal that show up on turn 2. Turn 1 the Battle Sisters should be moved ahead to capture the vanguard and set up for your advance. This will undoubtedly catch your opponent somewhat off guard as he now has a threat established he /has/ to eliminate. The flamechimera should follow behind to pick off potential advancing enemy blobs. If the enemy has no blobs, the flame veterans should be used more cautiously. Eradicators should be put in place in order to make the best use of their cover ignoring potential.

Turn 2, if things go according to plan, the strike fighters and Rough Riders should enter the board. This is where their purpose comes in: Unexpected face removal. Before this, you have established a mobile threat to the opponent that slowly advances to take their heads. The sudden addition of two flyers with heavy anti-tank and anti-Meq capability will make short work of any units your opponent was too foolish to leave opened up. In order to make the Rough Riders survive the turn, Celestine should be repurposed to become their guardian saint, leaving the Seraphim temporarily unused.

The turns hereafter it's a simple matter of using your directly established positioning and board presence to pick off the exposed enemy units. The rough riders should be of great value in suddenly taking down the opponent's armoured units and will make a great impact on blobs aswell. One of the squads with meltas to take down dangerous vehicles. The veterans may be used to apply death directly to your opponent's squads and Celestine should be your HQ to allow your priests to use her leadership for their war hyms, ensuring the blob to be even more dangerous and making their presence ever so omnious.

1850/1850
Astra Militarum Primary:
2x Ministorum Priests (25pts each)
Yarrick (145pts)
Infantry Platoon/Blob, 1x Platoon Command w/ Medpack, 3x Infantry Squad (195pts)
Veteran Squad w/ Heavy Flamer, 2 flamers, Chimera w/ 2x Heavy Flamers
2x Rough rider squad w/ 4x Rough riders (55pts each)
Rough rider squad w/ 2 meltagun (75pts)
>FW< Avenger Strike Fighter (150pts)
2x Leman Russ Squadron w/ Eradicators (120pts each)

Adepta Sororitas Allied:
Saint Celestine (135pts)
2x Battle Sister squad w/ 2 meltaguns, rhino (180pts)
Seraphim w/ 2 (4 total) handflamers (95pts)
>FW< Avenger Strike Fighter (150pts)
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egorey
The Duck of Death
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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 21 I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 30 2014, 17:43

So  Randy - although you used Doxy - I think your list really rocks. It has the potential to totally throw off your opponent.

Ligs  - it is a nice list. I think it could work. Is it the best submission though? It has raw power with the bike squads but Randy's has St Celestine and Seraphim! That is pretty cool.

I'm still waiting to see if someone really wants to try and break the box though.

BTW, we will see what the community thinks is the best list too. I'm hoping for some input there.

How not to suck using rough riders ...

Astra Militarum
Yarrick ( Goes w/ Blob and modeled as renegade Commissar) 145
Cypher 190 (Goes w/ Typhus and Zombies or can outflank with the Blob)
PCS , 50 Man Blob, 4 Lascannons, 2 Power Axes, Priest, Psyker Lvl 2 490
2x 5 Rough Riders, 2 Meltaguns 150
Vulture Gunship, TL Punishers 155
2 Wyverns 130
total: 1260

CSM Detachment
Typhus 230
35 Plague Zombies 150
3 Obliterators 210
total: 590

Between infiltrating zombies, DSing Oblits, incoming vector dancing Vulture - your RRs should easily make it up table if I'm careful. Now I would use Yarrick but he does not play with Chaos, lol. So I'll be fluffy and use a renegade Commissar. Now Cypher - well shrouded, hit + run on I8, AP2, and infiltrate. Nice. The list is not transparent to play. There are going to be some key decisions that need to made. First, the Typhus blob is obviously bait and annoyance. It will be hard to remove if it sits on an objective. You will not want to attack it in cc because it will H+R and set up the charges for shooting from other units then recharge, take overwatch and allow the RRs to then charge. The Oblits can start on the table moving up a flank firing. You don't want to ignore them if they do because they will do damage all game. Or they can take a risk and DS. So you see what I'm getting at I hope. The Wyverns will be hard to reach buffered by a blob.  Terrain, LoS, deployment, and movement will be very important when playing this list.  

Now I must talk about Typhus and Cypher:
Typhus is a ultimate triple threat; he unlocks one of the best Troop units in the game, and makes another insanely good. Typhus is also a beast in close combat with only Strength 10 weapons posing a real danger. Typhus might only have 5+ invulnerable save, but gets another with Feel No Pain. Typhus can kill units in many ways between the Destroyer Hive and his Deamon Weapon. Finally, Typhus is a Psyker, with access to some great Nurgle Powers. No zombies without Typhus, lol. You have 35 Fearless, Feel No Pain models for 150 points - incredible.
His daemon weapon granting him that extra d6 attacks. It is a +2 strength weapon with AP2 and the melee, daemon weapon, force, and unwieldy tags. This makes Typhus' attacks Strength 6 and will ignore every armor in the game. The Force special rule means that he can spend a warp charge to make his attacks Instant Death - great in challenges with FNP and rerolls against SM.
One thing to note. Cypher against certain opponents can be placed in the blob instead of with the zombies. This will be situational but I now I will at times want to outflank those guardsmen.

But the Destroyer Hive - wow.  In the Assault Phase, instead of attacking, he may unleash the hive! Place a large blast marker over Typhus. Every model under the template (friend or foe, but  not Typhus) take a single Str 4 AP2 hit. Send Typhus alone into combat, pop the Destroyer Hive, and watch half of every model around him die. And he is infiltrating with Cypher.  

And Cypher -  WS7, BS10 and I8 (he has hit and run on I8). But we do not take him for his EW - he only has three wounds and power armour. We take him because he can INFILTRATE the Zombie blob and grant shrouding. This is the key that really unlocks Typhus. ATSKNF is okay but the blob is fearless anyway. Causing fear - who cares. Fleet - not useful. Sure his pistol overwatches at full BS but these are just tiny perks. But as mentioned above there will be games when I'll want to hold the zombies back and use Cypher to outflank that large blob - this is a bit of welcome flexibility.


Modeling the list - well it has to look like renegade guard right. The list is built for it. It almost has a bit of a fantasy feel to it with horses and zombies at all. I think the list demands a sickly nurgle look throughout. Lost and the Damned - what do you think?



4a. Please refrain from double posting. You may "bump" a post every 48hrs if you feel you are not getting responses. Double posts in project logs are acceptable. /Your friendly mod SS

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 21 I_icon_minitimeFri May 02 2014, 13:57

Kap'n Jak Sparra scratched his scarred chin, and glared at Lizzyswon from his one good eye

"Yoo reckon there be good plundah at this place then eh?"

Elizabeth met the baleful glare with one of her own, her eyes cold and hard like exposed flint. The merchant turned privateer turned private nodded slowly at the towering Warboss. "Aye. I do Kap'n. But as I said, we will have to hit this particular... Outpost.... Hard and fast. If we tarry too long and they are able to bunker down, and hold out for reinforcements... " her words trailed off as the large greenskin threw his head back and bellowed in laughter.

"Our boiz are da fastest an da bestest. Yoo knows dat! Yoo just make sure dem mekanikal 'orses of yours can keep up wiff me Bikes Lizzyswon. Last one to da booty is buyin da drinks!" he laughed again, and the sound was taken up by his boiz.

Will Turna, Meklboi extraordinaire stomped off to check the Bikes for the raid. Wouldnt be good form to have the Boss's bike not working in peak condition.

Josh Gibbsah and Jim Nobbington, howled in glee heading for their machines and grabbing their boiz on the way.

'Ekta Barbossa, smiled his toothy smile, nodded to the rest of the Nobz and they headed off to gear up for some fun, while Daybee Jonesah spun the propellor on his helmet and headed for the launchbays, muttering to himself as he went.

Last to leave the meeting hall was Bootstrap. He was always the first on the scene and the last to leave. Charged with keeping the skies over the groundpounders clear, he revelled in the speed and killyness of his Dakkajet. If he occasionally took potshots and enemy ground troops (or Krew Members for that matter) so be it! He aint never been shot down 'ard enough that he aint got back up again...

Elizabeth smiled, a cold and cruel smile. She had no concerns about her lads being shown up and the plunder that she planned on securing while the Warboss was busy with gold and weapons... Well it would fetch her more than enough to retire with if she could find the right buyer. The trick to it was to keep the true target hidden from Jak, and then stay one step ahead of both him, and the hated imperium, until the deal was done....

Orks - Main Force:

HQ - Wazzdakka AKA Kapn Jak.  180 points
HQ2 - Big Mek on bike with power klaw and kustom mega blasta AKA Will Turna 115 points

Troop 1 - Josh Gibbsah and his Boiz
4 Bikers + Nob on warbike. Josh has a Klaw 160 points

Troop 2 - Jim Nobbin'ton and his Boiz
4 Bikers + Nob on warbike with Big Choppa and Bosspole  145 points

Fast Attack Daybee Jonesah and his sidekicks Pintel and Ragettee
3 deffkoptas, 2 with Rokkit Launchas and 1 with Kustom Megablasta 130 points

Elites 'Ekta Barbozza and Da Nobs
4 nobs on warbikes with Big Choppas and Shoota/Scorchas and Bosspole 255 points

Fast Attack #2Bootstraps Dakkajet
Flyboss, red paint job and additional twin-linked supa shoota  135 points

Total Main Force 1120

Allied AM detachment
HQ Elizabeth Swan AKA Lizzyswon 135
Lord Commissar; with plasma pistol and Blade of conquest; deathmask of Ollanius (Hell hath no fury...)
Attached to The Likely Lads

Troops: The Crew
1 platoon command w medpack, 2x infantry squads 145 points

Troops 2: The Likely Lads
10 Veterans; grenadiers; heavy flamer and 2x flamers. With Chimera & 2x heavy flamers. 150 points

Fast Attack 1: The Outriders
10 Roughriders Led by Anamaria (Sergeant) Anamaria has a power weapon and Plasma Pistol 140 points

Fast Attack 2: The Inriders
10 roughriders led by Angelica (Sergent) who has meltabombs and plasma pistol. 130 points

Total allied detachment (semi renegade guard) 700

Total points 1820.

Right - so the theory in this list, is to have something fast, and fun to play - that has a bit of background / history, a heap of conversion / customisation options, and hopefully enough mobility to make it versatile.

Your warbikers should be screening the RRs while they scream towards the enemy. If you end up with night fighting in the first turn, even better! ALL the biker mobs have 4+ saves; make sure you use them to screen the RRs till you can get that charge in. If you can get in with the boiz first and then finish things off with the RRs then even better.

Bootstrap is really optional. From what I have seen and heard a lot of you have to deal with flyers, and so I have included as air support / anti air.

The Crew are really another variable that can be repurposed to whatever you need. There are some spare points left you can outfit the infantry platoons for anything you feel you need. They are your classic footsloggers, with a bit of luck, you can move them around behind the other mobs to take up a decent firing position / secure an objective or just rain torrents of lasgun fire on anything that stumbles into range. Although not a high output unit, they should be a gap-filler / target denial unit.

Psychic defences arent factored in - for a reason. It doesnt fit the list feel. You should, again in theory, be moving that many units that fast around the board that you are hitting these psykers and keeping them on the back foot, if not outright killing anything you get into combat with.

Another variant if you dont like flyers is to trade Bootstrap for cannons. Keep Lizzy around to keep them free / deal with any horde blobs and pound emplacements into the dirt.

Something  I would love to add would be Grot Tanks. I think they are awesome little models and would certainly fit in with the feel of mobility - think a squad of tanks run by monkeys AKA Jack the Undead Monkey and you get the idea.

If you dont get the character references... You need to crawl back under a rock.

So - anyone think you could make it actually WORK? I think it would be fun in any case.

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 21 I_icon_minitimeSat May 03 2014, 04:36

You can find 30 more points!!!

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 21 I_icon_minitimeSat May 03 2014, 04:42

Since this thread gets so much traffic I decided to pin it. It is now a Grisly Trophy.

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 21 I_icon_minitimeSat May 03 2014, 11:02

Baron Tordeck wrote:
Since this thread gets so much traffic I decided to pin it. It is now a Grisly Trophy.

Hurrah! Congratulations Duck and Ligs (mostly) for becoming an integral part of The Dark City! ...Not that you weren't before, but it's official now anyway. Ahem, and thank you Baron. Cool thing of you to do. An excellent decision.
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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 21 I_icon_minitimeSat May 03 2014, 14:18

Yep it was nice. And yes - why did you not spend the thirty points? There are a few options for them in upgrades. Use them.

The contest will end tonight at 12:00 P.M. We willdo the judging Monday and Tuesday and then announce the winner Wednesday. Feel free anyone to post your choice for best list to add to judges input and decision.

Thanks everyone for taking the time so we could have a little fun here.

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 21 I_icon_minitimeMon May 05 2014, 12:31

Hello again.

Ran out of time to quibble over the remaining 30 points. as a simple spend I would upgrade both units of RRs.

2 Melta guns to the Outriders; giving them AV / Tank Hunting options, and 1 Melta in the Inriders, giving them a reduced AV / anti tank capability compared to the outriders, but still keeping that option open should the need arise. Adds to their versatility and can help if they fall afoul of Dreads or similar, or an opening appears giving a good chance to scrap an enemy vehicle unit.

Sorry if this is too late Duck.

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 21 I_icon_minitimeTue May 06 2014, 04:20

I give you my list with rough riders. I took a mix of some of my favorite units and my love of min/maxing and had a little fun. I honestly think with a little tweaking it could actually work.

"The Priestly Order of Davidian Genius"

Primary Detatchment - Imperial Guard (840)

- HQ (65)
+ Lord Commisar

- Elites (270)
+ Ratling Snipers x9 - 90
+ Ratling Snipers x9 - 90
+ Ratling Snipers x9 - 90


- Troops (190)
+ Guard Platoon - 190
+ Command Squad, autocannon
+ Guard Squads x2, x2 autocannon, x2 plasma gun

- Fast Attack (330)
+ Rough Riders x10 - 110
+ Rough Riders x10 - 110
+ Rough Riders x10 - 110


Allied Detatchment - Space Wolves (545)

- HQ (200)
+ Rune Priest - 100
- Storm Caller and Murderous Hurricane, psychic powers
+ Rune priest - 100
- Living Lightening and Tempest's Wrath, psychic powers

- Troops (220)
+ Blood Claws x5, flamer w/ drop pod - 110

+ Blood Claws x5, flamer w/ drop pod - 110

- Heavy Support

       + Vindicator, siege shield - 125
     


Inquisition Warband Detatchment (457)

+ Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor  ---- 102
- Level 1 Psyker: Psychic Communion - 30
- 3 Servo Skulls - 9
- Force Sword (instead of chainsword) - free
- Power Armour - 8
- Tome of Vethric - 20
- Combi-Flamer 10

+ Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband
- Ministorum Priests x 10 - 250
- Storm Bolters x 10 - 50
- Chainsword x 10 - free

+ Transport
- Chimera - 55


Total: 1842/1850

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 21 I_icon_minitimeTue May 06 2014, 05:26

Its been pointed out to me that I cant have 2 fast attack choices in my allied detachment. (not under 6th anyhow!)

So I would "fix" my list by removing The Outriders (adjusted points cost of 150 assuming 1 melta)
reallocate the second melta to the Inriders so they now have 2 meltaguns.

Introducing a third troops choice mirror to Jim Nobbington
Troop 3 - 4 Bikers + Nob on warbike with Big Choppa and Bosspole 145 points

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 21 I_icon_minitimeTue May 06 2014, 13:15

So I aasked an independent judge to consider these lists (Its_Rumble) and here are his thoughts ...

You guys made this really hard on me. curses.

Oh well here goes. I like Lig's list alot, it represents what a RR would be utilized for in a IG army. Think of German Blitzkriegs a spearhead assault that is designed to puncture a line and blow right through it. His list can definitely do this, he has the RR as shock-troops the vets follow through laying down the fire opening the hole and then the blob. With the bikes filling in as needed. Although he doesn't need the white scars. I do love grav guns though.

Randoz's list. Although it is a good list, the RR are kind of thrown in as an afterthought. It would be fun to play but with the fighters and the leman russ squadrons I don't think the RR have much of a role here. The squads are small and will get chewed up after their first assault. Having a melta in one seems odd being as you have two LR squads, you would use it as a throw away to get one shot off on something with the melta (cheap melta, just don't think its on the right chassis. They would go well with the rhinos fluff wise being a spearhead for them to bust into lines or something. Its a good list but the RR doesn't make it. Not true to the theme i guess.

Now your list, I love your list. I really like traitor legions. The RR actually have a roll to play here because of their meltas. You have 2 huge blobs that are not very mobile which allows the RR to really come to tactical use here. Although you wouldn't be charging with them much they act more as horse archers(how i envision their role). Your whole army is a tar pit so you wouldn't need the RR to do that for you. They can circle and respond to where they are needed, I like this. Although personally I would have liked to see you skip the vulture and throw in more RR. You have a strong list but I think you could have matched the theme that much better if you had a larger blob of them, which would allow a much better charge which is what I think you had intended them to do. However can Cypher infiltrate Typhus, was that your intention? Because from my understanding IC's cannot infiltrate other IC's

Now to your modeling question. I think mixing in cultists with the IG would make really good crossover units with IG and Chaos aspects to them. everything can have a nurgle feel to it. The RR are renowned for not bathing or washing themselves at all, oh god this matches nurgle so well! I like the chariot idea for the Chimera it matches the RR really well, it could be great modeled. crap and with that in mind you could really go all out with the seekers of slaanesh to kitbash with IG for RR. Although I don't know how you would mix the Nurgle and Slaanesh.

Tobruk's list, ahaha it's awesome. I love Orks. It doesnt match really well at all but its just funny. His list is fast as crap that is for sure. I would envision the RR actually herding the orks to their goal. It would have been so much better if he had allied orks to it but oh well. Fun to play for sure.

The Davidian Genius list looks awesome. It would be so much fun to play. You drop the blood claws in flame something the RR come in break the line, rattlings applying cover and other suppression tactics. In the field it would do really really well. It really catches the light as the spearhead to the blitzkrieg. Everything in this list would be doing exactly as it is designed for, which is nice. He just needs to put the platoon in a chimera.

This leads me to my decision. I chose "The Priestly Order of Davidian Genius" as the winner. It really does match the theme of the list. I'm looking at these lists under the pretense of Rough Riders and the fluff and how I think they would be used in a real life situation. The other lists are very nice lists don't get me wrong but I wasn't looking for a competitive list. If I was choosing off of Competitiveness clearly yours or Randoz list are the best. I would love to see you two duke it out. However I have to say if you had thrown out that Vulture for some RR I would have had a harder time choosing. So there are my thoughts. Feel free to respond what you think. I didn't exactly write this to be ctrl-c ctrl-ved into the forums it was more a train of thought/breakdown of thought process. Let me know what you think.

Despite not wanting to be ctrl-c ctrl-ved into the thread this deserves to be read as is. I asked for a second opinion - and I did not interfere at all - to see if my assessment was close to another's opnion for sake of objectivity. I absolutely agree with with the above analysis. I would add that Super_Dave's list is likely not as strong as some others when it comes to AA/AT but his list is still quite playable and truest to the theme. His list really uses the RRs as a prominent feature.

Now being competitive is certainly an issue but that is just one facet of how i would judge this challenge. Dave's list is still quite good. He has enough threats on the table to do a lot of damage. Those snipers, his blob, the vindicator, the deathstar priests all add to the list. We actually discussed the pros and cons of ten man units to MSU in chat and I felt unless you were using RRs as melta delivery ten man units were the way to go for sure.

Now Dave was the only list builder who did not elaborate on tactics, lol. But both its_rumble and I pretty much figured out his game plan with the list anyway so all's good. Now if I were tweaking Dave's list I would be fielding the RRs in squads of ten with two melta each ( this would solve his AT issues nicely) but I suggested this to Dave and he absolutely refused - lol. The option is to drop two ratlings from each squad - so squads of eight ratlings and put the melta in. Other than the lack of AV13-14 defense his list is near perfect. He is even crazier than me when list building - hurrah for Dave.

So the winner is Super_Dave ( despite being a day late he snuck in under the wire before the lists had been judged). I hope you all enjoyed reading these lists as much as I did. I hope Dave will provide a breakdown of his list at omne point but really ... with a little thought I think you can see how it functions.

Congratulations Dave - you sneaky git. You now need to PM or post what you would like for your prize and I'll need your address. You can choose the item you want from the list in the challenge thread.

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 21 I_icon_minitimeWed May 07 2014, 00:43

Congrats Soup!

Nice list indeed; all of them would be fun to test out, and Im still (far too!) keen to give my madness a trial. We shall see about that, still waiting on 7th and hopefully some new Ork models!


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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 21 I_icon_minitimeWed May 07 2014, 02:28

Hey man with how the 7th Edition roles out, your list is viable!!! even with 20 RR as an allied detachment haha.

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics - Page 21 I_icon_minitimeWed May 07 2014, 15:12

THE NEXT CHALLENGE

Well the first one went so well I will give away another prize (no Eye of Terror left, guys - Dave has it) for the best CYPHER list.

To review this guy has fleet, infiltrate, ATSKNF, EW, Hit and Run WS & BS!0, I8 (great on H+R), but only power armour saves - he has four attacks on the charge half of which are AP2. He shoot both bolter and plasma pistol twice (plasma does not get hot). So a decent enough IC to find some uses for. And he does not take up an HQ spot. He has a few drawbacks - reduces Warlords LD -1 and is trerrible against DA but meh.

There is is also the Cypher formation ... take up to three units of chosen. Within 12" they get Cyopher's LD and ATSKNF. Useful

Now scroll back and you will see why i like Cypher but here is my take on nasty list ...

Typhus 230
Huron 160
Cypher 190
4x 35 Plague Zombies 600
18 Plague Zombies (in bastion) 82
2x Heldrakes (one hades;one baleflamer) 340
2 Obliterators, MoN 152
Bastion Comms Relay 95

It is 1850 points has 160 fearless troops. Almost everything can infiltrate, outflank, fly in from reserves or DS with reserve manipulation of course. It has 150+ fearless troops and a beatstick squad if you want one. Now make a better list. Typhus can go with a blob or he can DS with obliterators ... Huron can join Cypher and infiltrate with a blob of zombies or outflank. There are just a slew of different deployment options. Of importance is that on the turn two drop - be it by outflank, reserves or DS you will immediately apply pressure with the bulk of your army fearless and taking up space. This is the key. You can trap your opponent on the board and apply the pressure where needed.

Something I've carried over from my experience is that if you have an army where every model has a specific role and is equipped accordingly to be good at that role, your army feels like it has synergy providing you have all your categories covered. Do you have models specifically for AA? Do you have units designed to survive and score. Do you have units and models equipped to apply early pressure? Do you have models that can take out an MC/IK? If yopu cover your bases well, an army, albeit a strange one can succeed.

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