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Randozart
Hellion
Randozart

Posts : 70
Join date : 2013-06-13
Location : If I tell you, I'm afraid I'd have to kill you.

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PostSubject: New to 40k   New to 40k I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 13 2013, 17:51

I've recently decided to pick up playing 40k. Before this I've done tons of reading on different armies, made countless list concepts and indulged myself in the tactica of different races aswell as speaking with online friends of mine about their matches and army lists. Eventually I settled with the Dark Eldar as final choice, even though these are highly discouraged for new players. In a few weeks I plan to buy my first box of kabalite warriors to start my list. Before I start building anything stupid, I would like to have your opinions on a 500pt list and a 2000pt list I wish to develop it to, based on information I once again got from forum posts in all sorts of places. 


500pt list:

HQ (55pts)
Haemonculus, Venom Blade (55pts) 

Troops (330pts)
Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Cannon (180pts) 
-Raider, Dark Lance, Flickerfield Splinter Racks
    
Wracks (150pts) 
-Raider, Dark Lance

Heavy Support + (115pts)
Ravager, 3x Disintergrator, Flickerfield (115pts) 


2000pt list:

HQ (495pts)
Asdrubael Vect (240pts) 

Haemonculus, Agoniser, Liquifier Gun, Splinter Pistol (80pt)
Haemonculus, Agoniser, Liquifier Gun, Splinter Pistol (80pt)
Haemonculus, Agoniser, Liquifier Gun, Splinter Pistol, Shattershard (95pt)

Elites (296pts)
7x Incubi (296pts) 
Klavex  Demiklaives, Onslaught (72pts) 
-Raider, Dark Lance, Flickerfield (70pts) 


Troops (860pts)
Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Cannon (180pts) 
-Raider, Dark Lance, Flickerfield Splinter Racks

Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Cannon (180pts) 
-Raider, Dark Lance, Flickerfield Splinter Racks

Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Cannon (180pts) 
-Raider, Dark Lance, Flickerfield Splinter Racks

9x Wracks (150pts) 
-Raider, Dark Lance, Flickerfield

9x Wracks (150pts) 
-Raider, Dark Lance, Flickerfield

Heavy Support (345pts)
Ravager, 3x Dark Lance, Flickerfield (115pts)

Ravager, 3x Dark Lance, Flickerfield (115pts) 

Ravager, 3x Dark Lance, Flickerfield (115pts)  


I hope I can get any advice on this so I can start playing 40k confidently without wasting any funds on a possibly useless army.

Thanks in advance!
(EDIT: List didn't fit the list posting rules, so I edited it)
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Sig121
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Join date : 2011-09-11

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PostSubject: Re: New to 40k   New to 40k I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 14 2013, 09:51

I suppose advice for your lists will depend on if you are trying to build a competitive army or one to play with friends/pickups at the local store.  I think the 500 is a good start.  You will likely use all that stuff in the future, although wracks can lend themselves toward specific builds.  In general, I put forth the following points for your 2000 point list goal.

-Magnetizing.  I'm not sure how experienced you are at miniature gaming, but I noticed you swaped a ravager from disintegrators to lances from one list to the other.  Magnetizing these guys will save you $ in a big way if you want to use both types.  

-A Haemonculus probably doesn't need an agonizer and I would definitely recommend not building 3 of them this way in any event.  That's 60 points for all of them.  Its almost enough for 3 jet bikes, a raider, 3 true born with 2 splinter cannons.... you get the picture.  Dark Eldar are cheap and squishy for the most part and it is usually better to add more units instead of a lot of upgrades.

-Vect is good, he has a lot of advantages, but he does not have a phantasm grenade launcher.  If you put him in with the Incubi, who don't have grenades, they will go last when charging into cover.  This will cause you much grief.  A standard Archon with a PGL goes better here than Vect, even though Vect brings some extras.  Vect goes better with wyches who bring their own grenades.

-Flickerfields.  You might not need these at all.  Remember the 5+ Jink you get when you move.  Granted, the invulnerable save is better, especially when you go 2nd, but you've got 90 points there.  Combined with the agonizers from above, that's another unit and liquefiers for the wracks.

-Venoms.  None?  Your Kabalites in raiders with splinter racks put out some nice anti infantry fire power and a few are good to include.  The cheapest venom equivalent is a 5 man squad with a double cannon venom coming in at 110 points, allowing you to field more of them.  You can even stick 3 wracks in one for 95 points.  Unbelievable firepower for that cost.  Look into venoms as a possibility, they are great.

-Anti-air.  Your list is very poor vs vehicle flyers.  Monstrous creature flyers you will shred, but it will be hard for you to knock down more than one vehicle flyer with your lances without a huge amount of effort.  A razorwing or voidraven would help here.  An aegis defense line isn't fluffy for DE in the slightest, but it can get you a quadgun or lascannon. 

- Consider enhanced sails on your raiders with close combat units.  Sometimes you just have to stuff the CC guys down someone's throat and you have to be able to get there in one turn.  The sail upgrade is really cheap.

Overall I'm not a fan of wracks used as a big close combat unit.  I don't find them that effective and they die pretty quickly.  Using all three of your combat units as a super blob might work alright though.  I generally like wyches with haywire grenades more than wracks because they deal with armor far better, are faster (fleet), have combat drugs, get the 4+ invulnerable in close combat, and are basically the same cost.  You only lose poison CC weapons and 1 point of toughness.  You can even put the Haemonculus with them at first, then leave him in the boat by himself to fly around and spray stuff with the liquefier.  Wyches keep the pain token and the benefit.

Hope this is a help.
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Randozart
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Randozart

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Join date : 2013-06-13
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PostSubject: Re: New to 40k   New to 40k I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 14 2013, 11:27

Thanks for the advice you gave!
I've indeed read about some of the suggestions you gave, and now that I look at them the list indeed lends itself to more optimization. On the matter of the Aegis Defense line, it actually does lend to the fluff I came up with for the army, so that isn't such a biggie.

Considering the fleet on the wyches will allow me to Alpha Strike I'll indeed consider employing them, and they make for a much cheaper list to buy, so that's great! I'd like to keep the flickerfields though, since I manage to roll 5's quite often if I want to, giving my vehicles more staying power.

I also took the magnetizing in consideration, and since I also plan to adapt the 2000 point list to the opponent I'll be facing (take disintergrator if the opponent is TEQ-heavy), I'll be sure to do that aswell. And yes, now that I look at it... Yeah, Haemonculae are for pain and giggles... Not as much for fighting themselves.

Anyway, thanks again for sharing your expertise and I'll be sure to look into it!
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Randozart
Hellion
Randozart

Posts : 70
Join date : 2013-06-13
Location : If I tell you, I'm afraid I'd have to kill you.

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PostSubject: Re: New to 40k   New to 40k I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 14 2013, 16:53

I did some roster editing, and after finding out the tournaments the nearby gaming club hosts don't allow for "named" characters, I've made a 1500 point list that excludes Vect. Based on your advice I've also edited some things and added an Aegis Defense Line.

The list:
HQ (150pts)
3x Haemonculus (150pts)
   

Elites (219pts)
Incubi (219pts)
-Raider, Dark Lance, Torment Grenade Launcher (65pts)


Troops (686pts)
Kabalite Warriors (110pts)
-Venom, Splinter Cannon (65pts)

Kabalite Warriors (110pts)
-Venom, Splinter Cannon (65pts)

Kabalite Warriors (110pts)
-Venom, Splinter Cannon (65pts)

Wyches, Haywire Grenades (178pts)
-Raider, Dark Lance, Flickerfield (70pts)

Wyches, Haywire Grenades (178pts)
-Raider, Dark Lance, Flickerfield (70pts)  


Heavy Support (345pts)
Ravager, 3x Dark Lance, Flickerfield (115pts)

Ravager, 3x Dark Lance, Flickerfield (115pts)

Ravager, 3x Dark Lance, Flickerfield (115pts)


Fortification (100pts)
Aegis Defense Line, Quad-Gun (100pts)


If there are any points to remark on, I'd only be eager to hear them!
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PostSubject: Re: New to 40k   New to 40k I_icon_minitime

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