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 Reaver survivability strategy

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bazdakka
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver survivability strategy   Reaver survivability strategy - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 20 2013, 09:22

Having used flickerfields and nightshields they both have their uses but lately taking the latter has produced some memorable looks on opponents faces! Banner of Destruction - sorry you're out of range Smile

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Sheepy
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver survivability strategy   Reaver survivability strategy - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 20 2013, 11:27

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:

I tend to take flicker fields on some of my raiders anyway, just in case I get the dreaded 'can't move' damage roll, or my opponent can manoeuvre enough to see them in the first turn.

True the old flickerfield comes in handy! I run wyches in venoms, the FF has helped many times when the Venom is counter charged in CC. Trouble is in raiders having NS, FF and maybe SR. at 90 points it's an expensive paper-plane with a cursed 1 shot lance

@bazdakka wrote:
Having used flickerfields and nightshields they both have their uses but lately taking the latter has produced some memorable looks on opponents faces! Banner of Destruction - sorry you're out of range Smile

I love my nightshields for reasons you mention, plus against Necron anni barges

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Plastikente
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver survivability strategy   Reaver survivability strategy - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 20 2013, 16:56

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
@Plastikente wrote:
DE Smart Missile Systems are a worry
Did I miss us getting these? Only teasing!
D'oh! Brain fart. Everyone knew what I meant though...

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Mushkilla
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Mushkilla

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PostSubject: Re: Reaver survivability strategy   Reaver survivability strategy - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 20 2013, 22:03

Not to mention Vetock made smart missiles 30" range (upped form 24" last edition).

Still reavers are like onions they have many layers of defence.

1st layer - Mobility and Range
2nd layer - Target saturation
3rd layer - T4
4th layer - Cover save or Armour save (useful against AP- ignore cover weapons, like night spinners)
5th layer - FNP

Which means even ignore cover weapons will have a hard time shutting them down.

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Plastikente
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver survivability strategy   Reaver survivability strategy - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 21 2013, 12:37

@Mushkilla wrote:
Not to mention Vetock made smart missiles 30" range (upped form 24" last edition).

I missed this. Spent a whole game last night with my Tau thinking I was just out of range when I wasn't.

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clively
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver survivability strategy   Reaver survivability strategy - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 21 2013, 17:04

Putting Reavers in reserve is just a really bad idea.

They need to be on the table making your opponent worry about how to deal with them. For awhile I thought reserves might be a good strategy, but the problem is that you just don't know when they will come in. Might be turn 2, might be turn 4... You are much better off simply flying them into a corner that can't be touched then bringing them forward when you are ready. This way you at least know when they are available.

If they aren't on the table, then your opponent isn't worrying about them...

For the other things, I've started taking flicker and NS everywhere I can. It was nice not having to spend those points due to Jink; but at this point I can't chance that anymore.

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver survivability strategy   Reaver survivability strategy - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 21 2013, 19:27

Don't forget though that if they're not on the table, your opponent can't shoot at them. As with everything, you have to make a tactical decision, sometimes putting them in reserve to come onto the board later is a good idea, sometimes it's not.

For example take a game against tau with plenty of markerlights, playing the scouring mission, your reavers just became a great objective taking unit, provided they can survive the markerlights. If you keep them in reserve, you've got up to three turns to get rid of them, and then your reavers become exceedingly difficult to get rid of. I realise this is a very specific set of circumstances, but it's not the only time I'd consider reserving reavers, and more to the point, reserving isn't a choice you have to make until you've seen the terrain and the mission so to say it's just plain a bad idea is unnecessarily limiting.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver survivability strategy   Reaver survivability strategy - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 21 2013, 21:00

@clively wrote:
Putting Reavers in reserve is just a really bad idea.

I couldn't disagree more with this statement.

Firstly you can't always deploy them in such a way where they can't be targeted.

More importantly from reserve reavers can bladevane anything on the board with their 48" range (except in hammer and anvil). Effectively keeping them in reserve lets them threaten any infantry unit on the table and any tank 30" into the table (if you run blasters). That is something your opponent has to worry about. Being able to threaten the entire board makes them fantastic at capitalising on your opponents mistakes. Muses help him if he forgets about them.

When your reavers start on the board it's clear to your opponent what they can threaten, it telegraphs your intentions. Combine this with the fact that most of the time reavers will not do anything on their first turn other than move into position as committing them too early is a sure fire way to lose them and reserve doesn't seem to bad, you lose a turn where you were not going to do much anyway.

If you go second keeping your reavers in reserve will negate an extra turn of your opponents shooting against them (as they come on after your opponents second turn) this effectively gives him even less turns to deal with your reavers, a unit that really can't be ignored.

Reavers get stronger as the games goes on, and their mobility means they are doing damage every turn unlike most units so even coming on turn 4 is not a bad thing: easier for them to pick up a pain token, easier to overwhelm scoring units and better chances of them being around to contest objectives at the end of the game.

Finally, ideally you want to get a pain token before your reavers take any fire, reserve helps you do this as it gives you 1-2 turns to take out some transports and soften up some units for pain token harvesting. These 1-2 turns are also great for clearing out any major threats to the reavers before they come on (as Burning Eye mentioned).

I'm not saying they should always be run in reserve. More that reserve is a powerful tool for reavers and is a tactical option that should always be considered when trying to get the most out of them (even more so when running large squads of 9).

Hope that helps.  Smile

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commandersasha
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver survivability strategy   Reaver survivability strategy - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 21 2013, 21:54

Mush, how has the increase in Interceptor (Tau, quad guns etc) affected the value of reserving? Has it been an issue for you? I know you don't generally use flyers, so those Interceptors aren't busy shooting planes, and they usually have whole-board range.
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver survivability strategy   Reaver survivability strategy - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 21 2013, 22:01

@commandersasha wrote:
Mush, how has the increase in Interceptor (Tau, quad guns etc) affected the value of reserving? Has it been an issue for you? I know you don't generally use flyers, so those Interceptors aren't busy shooting planes, and they usually have whole-board range.

Interceptor is fired at the end of the movement phase, so after the reavers have moved 12", as long as you make sure they are out of range, or out of sight at the end of that move interceptor is not a problem. They can then move as close as they wan't when they turboboost in the shooting phase. The other thing is if you fire an interceptor weapon in your opponents movement phase it can't shoot during your shooting phase, so sure that quad gun shot some reavers, but now it can't shoot my ravagers during it's shooting phase. So to answer your question it has yet to really been a problem. Smile

Also against tau most of their weapons are 30-36" range so you can afford to start your reaver on the board if you think interceptor is going to be too much of an issue.

Hope that helps. Smile

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