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 When fighting ork hordes...

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dino999
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PostSubject: When fighting ork hordes...   When fighting ork hordes... I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 12 2013, 14:39

I recently went up against an ork player who fielded upwards of 150 boyz in our game and being new to 6th ed i really havent gotten the tactics down for slicing and dicing my way through the green machine.

So im looking at two units of 10 lootas, an aegis defence line with quad gun, a shokk attack gun, a trukk full of Nobz and warboss in Mekka armor, two 30 man stormboyz units and four 30 man shoota boyz units and two units of 3 deffkoptas.


I have Vect, Archon, Haemonculus, ten man wrack squad in raider, three squads of wyches (9 each) in raiders and two squads of incubi (5 each) in venoms, talos pain engine, 2 ravagers, razorwing, 10 hellions, 3 units of 3 reaver jetbikes, two 10 man units of warriors with SC and blaster. (I fully understand this is not an optimal list but it is ALL of the models in my collection, so more of an APOC type game list.)

So first off what would be your target priority and how would you utilize the killy-ness of the dark eldar to greatest effect?
I know charging shoota boyz with wyches is suicide, same with incubi. using the three man wrack teams as fodder seems like a better idea than using them as a ten man squad but that means another 90+ dollars in venoms.

Having PGL on all of my cc units would letting the orks charge me be a better idea? the orks dont get that bonus attack, their shots still suck at +5 to hit, i'm getting a cover save and swinging first.

here is the batrep for reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH0QeiHXzLw
(also note that he cheated immensely, i posted that in another topic on the forumn): https://www.thedarkcity.net/t6823-dealing-with-cheaters-funny-since-the-de-motto-is-play-dirty
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tlronin
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PostSubject: Re: When fighting ork hordes...   When fighting ork hordes... I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 12 2013, 15:03

Pepper him with poison, by dancing around him with your fast units (like Venoms/Hellions). It's a 3+ to hit and on a 4+ they' re dead ('cause AP5). Let him come to your warrior units. Wither him down with poison and when he charges your Warriors, counter charge him with the Incubi and/or the Wyches. Basically only charge him when you've withered down the unit enough.

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: When fighting ork hordes...   When fighting ork hordes... I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 12 2013, 15:19

Call your Archon Sliscus, then you can sit him with a warrior unit in a raider with splinter racks and watch your opponent cry as you hit on a 3+ with rerolls then kill on a 3+ *, plus he gives you an extra drug roll to pick from and lets you deep strike all those lovely raiders and venoms in rapid fire range.

*Actually, if you call them trueborn they can take 2 splinter cannons and shardcarbines instead, but then the splinter racks don't work. It works out as a couple more wounds than calling them warriors.

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Brom
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PostSubject: Re: When fighting ork hordes...   When fighting ork hordes... I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 12 2013, 17:38

Its a respectable Waaagh although his list isnt the most optimal either..
Regarding the cheating thing, ive found discussing potential problems prior to the game solves most issues. If not then prior to the game get other players/3rd party to weigh in on the issue. Lastly agree to dice such issues 123 you 456 him. Some players just dont know the rules and springing rules on someone feels crummy to people at times. If it continues find other opponents.

On the topic of strategy, the basic suggestion to dance around and pepper is whats needed although you do lack splinter cannons IMO. At the least maybe switch those lances out for disi cannons. I also say go with a nilla archon to get pts for more splinter weapons as suggested. Deployment is key. REFUSE FLANK. You damn sure dont wanna be dead center against hordes. With this in mind its totally acceptable to take a turn to reposition your army 30" away and also totally acceptable to leave behind a sacrificial speedbump to bait him.

For target priority pop that megaboss' trukk asap to make them walking too and send the rest of your darklight and splinter fire too if necessary at the quadgun. These along with lootas are priority 1. 
In theory I would likely want to boost the wracks right into his face to deal with those lootas and quadgun too although obviously actual game factors would effect this decision. Thing is once the lootas and quadgun are toast he has no significant ranged element so he must close with you.

The nobz will be trouble but dont over focus on them, get rid of boys first with shooting since nobz are very durable and you want your splinter shots to count. Meanwhile any unit he has will be a problem in close. If you must engage the nobz in CC use wyches for 4++ tarpitting. Oh and remember to throw plasma grenades if they do get that close. 

On your side use the incubi wyches for countercharge duty but dont get the talos mixed up with his nobz. Instead send it forward (avoiding nobz) since it will do well to tarpit any full squad of boys indefinately and without a klaw he cant even hurt it so would have to choose to fail a moral check (our weapons are useless rule) and likely get run down. Win win.
Combo charge if you must engage (not with the talos though its better solo).
 
Bottom line hes gonna be coming at you so if he takes the bait on those wracks and turns around to deal fine his mistake since you own him at ranges >18".
 
Usually you shoot something til its dead but you aint gonna get far with that mentality here. Instead I would advise shooting the closest unit until its just above the fearless threshold then charge with incubi who will make a mess of boys. Premeasure so he doesnt charge you or if so at least be in cover to strike first.

I assume the stormboyz start on the board since he would be suicidal to DS them. If so the above applies here too. If not position to make him mishap. 

Once the razorwing comes on drop large blasts.

TLDR: Refuse flank. Prioritize lootas trukk and quadgun. Talos is for full squads but not nobz. Incubi/wyches are countercharge. Wittle down boys to break them in CQC. Dont be afraid to redeploy 30" to buy time.

Thats what I got good luck.
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Grez90
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PostSubject: Re: When fighting ork hordes...   When fighting ork hordes... I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 16 2013, 20:47

After seeing your battle report, I think you did the right thing, you placed most of your units on the left hand side of the biddle building literally making his whole "castle" as you called it, useless. As it would be you that picks if/when to go and take on that camp, and if he comes out of it, he loses the cover. The issue you just seemed to have was 1. a dodgy opponent 2. As pointed out above, not havign enough spliter fire, and templates. If you know your facing orcs, get as much of these two things in as possible, as once you reduce thier numbers in each unit, they become less useful to the general, and end up becoming speed bumps for him instead of tarpitting units.

Also against the orks you faced, you stated unless you have two aerial threats, you might aswell not take them, so my suggestion would be to try and fit two Razorwings in, with necrotoxin missiles. If you can try and take out his skyfire/interceptor threats with your long range fire, then having two flyers come in with that much 2+ AP5 large templates is likely to cause him a lot of troube.
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Darkgreen Pirate
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PostSubject: Re: When fighting ork hordes...   When fighting ork hordes... I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 18 2013, 05:26

@Brom wrote:
....but dont get the talos mixed up with his nobz. Instead send it forward (avoiding nobz) since it will do well to tarpit any full squad of boys indefinately and without a klaw he cant even hurt it so would have to choose to fail a moral check (our weapons are useless rule) and likely get run down.

If he is fearless, he cannot choose to fail our weapons our useless, iirc. So one talos can tangle 30 boyz up quite nicely.

@Brom wrote:
TLDR: Refuse flank. Prioritize lootas trukk and quadgun. Talos is for full squads but not nobz. Incubi/wyches are countercharge. Wittle down boys to break them in CQC. Dont be afraid to redeploy 30" to buy time.

Pretty much this. Lootas are vicious against our skimmers. Everything else dies to poison, so duck and hide as much as possible. Trying to maneuver giant blobs around the board can be difficult, so cross him up if you can. Empty skimmers make great roadblocks for late game too!

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Brom
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PostSubject: Re: When fighting ork hordes...   When fighting ork hordes... I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 19 2013, 04:08

Nice catch DGP and good advice as well.
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