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 Version 2 Deldar 1500 -1750 w/ analysis

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egorey
The Duck of Death
egorey

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Join date : 2013-02-25

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PostSubject: Version 2 Deldar 1500 -1750 w/ analysis    Version 2 Deldar 1500 -1750 w/ analysis   I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 11 2013, 21:14

Weekend clash list ... escalation from 1500 - 1750 ...


== Deldar ==

Haemonculus, Liquifier Gun, Venom Blade 65

3x 3 Wracks, Venom, 2 Splinter Cannon 285

2x Ravager, Nightshields 230

Spirit Seer 70

2x 5 Wraithguard, D-Scythes, Wave Serpent, TL Scatterlasers,  Holofields 690

Crimson Hunter 160

== 1500 ==


== Deldar ==


Haemonculus, Liquifier Gun, Venom Blade 65

3 Wracks, Venom, 2 Splinter Cannons 95
2x 4 Wracks, Venom, 2 Splinter Cannons 210

2x Ravager, Nightshields 230

Spirit Seer 70

2x 5 Wraithguard, D-Scythes, Wave Serpent, TL Scatterlasers, Holofields 690

Crimson Hunter Exarch: 180

3 Warwalker Squadron, Brightlance, Scatterlaser 210


== 1750 ==


Push up your wave serpents and WG to the center of the table. Turn two hope the flyer comes on to give your opponent problems ... profit.

Now there is a bit of secret tech here. I often play smaller games for fun. This list adapts perfectly to a small Eldar force ...

---Iyanden---


Spirit Seer 70

Autarch, Fusion Gun, Power Weapon, Banshee Mask 100

2x 5 Wraithguard, D-Scythes, Wave Serpent, TL Scatterlasers, Holofields 710

Crimson Hunter Exarch: 180

3 Warwalker Squadron, Brightlance, Scatterlaser 210

---1250---


Don't be fooled. This list is mean at 1250. It is pretty simplistic. Turn two your Warwalkers outflank and your flyer comes in and starts creating havoc. Gretting rid of the WG is no easy tsk at 1250. They are tough. You don't want to charge 5 d-scythes. The list spits out some decent dakka.

Now before I go on ... let us discuss the obvious weakness shared by lists ... the lack of troops. I have the scoring units but they are quite minimal in size. MSU can work though. Thw wracks can be hidden easily and march from cover late to hold an objective. The WG can easily clear objectives and grab one. But the lists need to focus on what has to be done. You want linebreaker, first blood, slay the warlord, points for destroying heavy or fast slots - mission dependent - etall. This type of list cannot get sidetracked ... it needs to play the mission at all times.

So now with some more in depth analysis ...


edited for additional comment and corrections


Last edited by egorey on Thu Jun 13 2013, 01:10; edited 5 times in total
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egorey
The Duck of Death
egorey

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PostSubject: Re: Version 2 Deldar 1500 -1750 w/ analysis    Version 2 Deldar 1500 -1750 w/ analysis   I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 12 2013, 15:51

So now some observations on the why I am using I settled on this list. 

Reaver Jetbikes - I had used my reavers in the list initially. After all they are painted for battle. But in the end as good as bikes are, I have to say that venoms and wave serpents trumped them on the table. They just put put a lot of dakka and with enough vehicles test my opponents ability to determine what is the priority target.

Wracks and Venoms - Well I wanted venoms. If I'm trying to fit in as many as possible so MSU wracks are the way to go. I can use the wracks to sit on objectives and use the venoms for firepower. I like Warrior/Blaster/Raider but the cost - although not terrible - still reduces the overall effectiveness of the list limiting options I also want to bring. I can get three MSU wrack squads in venoms for considerably less than three Warrior squads with a blaster in a raider. Odds are in my list the dual splinter cannons will be more useful.

Razorwings or Ravagers - There is a trend towards Razorwings these days and rightfully so. But we have two isuues with DE ... lack of reserve manipulation and the cost versus the fragility and effectivemness of a Razor. Playing a non=allied DE lists you almost have to use either a Razor or Void bomber. With an allied list this need is dimished. Wave Serpents alone can deal with a Heldrake. Crimson Hunters with vector dancer far exceed the Razorwing for AA capability. So fill the need with allies and take those extra Dark Lances on the trusted Ravager.


Wraithguard or Windrider Bikes - Windrider bikes were great in the first games I played. But there is way too many deny cover units out there. I needed tough durable troops that could sit on an objective - after doing some potent damage - and seal the deal.Wave Serpents also provide a level of durability that bikes simply do not have. If you decide to take the Iyanden trait you can also disembark 6" and use battle focus.


Crimson Hunter - well he absolutely works better with an autarch but unless your Eldar are primary an autarch's  abilities do not work. Still, he is better than a Razorwing with vector dancer. He will pretty much guarantee a kill against opposing flyers if you first take out intercept units.

Night Spinners or Warwalkers - Well I had Night Spinners all nicely painted up. Then I pulled out my old War Walkers. I will still use a Spinners in larger games if I'm going Eldar primary. But when using DE primary the utility of War Walkers is grat. They can either start on the board or outflank and they do a lot of damage.

Wraithknight - What a great model. A bullet catcher. An area denial unit. A great AT unit. Mobile. Duarable. Barebones he is only 240 points and that is almost a bargain. It was quite difficult passing him up for War Walkers. But Warwalkers are both AA and AT, do not attract as much fire, have deployment options ( outflank or start on the table ). Still, I think he is a great unit. WG are also area denial units that score and clear objectives. I have plenty of AT in my list already and Warwalkers are no slouch at AT either plus they can with scatterlasers hurt infantry too. So this is a pick and choose option. I can easily slide one in at 1750 instead of the War Warlkers and indeed might opt too in some games.



Now I used over the last month - Warp Spiders, Windrider Jetbikes, Wyches, Warriors, Grots, Archon, Raiders, Night Spinners. As I got more information on the Iyanden codex and as I filtered through all my available models, I found the route I'm taking to be the most efficient point for point. It is interesting to note that we have as Eldar increased our output by 16% when shooting, gone down in cost on a few units, are IMHO, a little more durable overall. This makes it a bit easier to design a list that is not dependent on first turn.Another rule that cannot be overlooked is laser lock that can be added to a lot of units and actually makes it feasible to take out Flyers although less potent against AV12.

I think there are going to be new trends now that Tau have really put the hurt on Heldrakes and other lists also sport decent AA. I believe that there will be fewer tournament players willing to field those once nasty tri-drake lists. And although Stormravens, FMCs and Stormtalons still pose risks, between wave serpents, crimson hunters and tl brightlance warwalker with scatters, you can handle it fairly well. 


So there you have my reasoning and my lists. Feel free to suggest any alterations and add your own experiences.

Now for a bonus analysis ... DARK REAPERS. Every list needs some of these guys. Fantastic models. Priced to please. Can move and shoot. Ignore jink saves. Can get skyfire. This are the lynchpins of every successful Eldar list. Who needs Wraithknights and War Walkers and Prisms with these guys available. Games are won and lost on their backs. Just stick 'em in a Wave Serpent for even more mobility and utility. Okay ... never mind. Ignore all of that. I might be over hyping these guys ... wink ... wink. You could leave them on the shelf. Really. They are not that good. The big problem is the exarch has no split fire. However if you want them, there is only way to take them despite the lack of split fire. This assumes there is no Autarch in your list with a Crimson hunter. This configuration almost guarantees that you will take out fliers or tanks each turn.

4 Dark Reapers, Exarch, Tempest Missile Launcher, Fast Shot, Night Vision 165
Aegis Defense Line, Icarus Lascannon 85

Despite a now notorious comment on the Eldar vs Dark Eldar match up recently between a few of our well know TDC members ...

https://www.thedarkcity.net/t6892-br26-the-black-buzzards-vs-eldar-mech-1500pts


Dark Reapers would not have helped Shadows win the match by turn three, lol. But keep this series of batreps in mind ... coming up will be a Wraith list against those black buzzards. Hopefully a Wraithknight will be included in the list.


edited for additional notes


Last edited by egorey on Sat Jun 15 2013, 04:06; edited 9 times in total
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Version 2 Deldar 1500 -1750 w/ analysis    Version 2 Deldar 1500 -1750 w/ analysis   I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 13 2013, 07:48

Thanks for sharing your insights! Good to hear that all this flyer nonsense is going to be coming to an end with the amount of AA the Tau and Eldar can field. Smile

@egorey wrote:
Crimson Hunter - well he absolutely works better with an autarch but unless your Eldar are primary an autarch's  abilities do not work.

The +1/-1 reserve does work as allies, however it only affects the allied detachment and not the Dark Eldar detachment. So it would affect the Crimson Hunter. Personally I think the autarch is invaluable if you want to get the most out of the hunter. You just can't afford it coming on too early against other flyers.


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egorey
The Duck of Death
egorey

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PostSubject: Re: Version 2 Deldar 1500 -1750 w/ analysis    Version 2 Deldar 1500 -1750 w/ analysis   I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 13 2013, 09:58

Mush - the Autarch rule is written terribly. It is by RAW going to affect the primary detachment when taken as an ally. So it will not affect the Hunter or War Walkers as it is written although it seems that that was the RAI intent. I just don't want arguments with other players or TOs over rules.

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mug7703
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PostSubject: Re: Version 2 Deldar 1500 -1750 w/ analysis    Version 2 Deldar 1500 -1750 w/ analysis   I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 13 2013, 10:58

@egorey wrote:
Mush - the Autarch rule is written terribly. It is by RAW going to affect the primary detachment when taken as an ally. So it will not affect the Hunter or War Walkers as it is written although it seems that that was the RAI intent. I just don't want arguments with other players or TOs over rules.
Where is it written which detachment it affects? On the Autarch page in the codex it doesn't say much. I can't find the bit about which detachment it affects. :/
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egorey
The Duck of Death
egorey

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Join date : 2013-02-25

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PostSubject: Re: Version 2 Deldar 1500 -1750 w/ analysis    Version 2 Deldar 1500 -1750 w/ analysis   I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 13 2013, 13:11

Q: Do modifiers that apply to such things as Reserve rolls, apply to units from an allied detachment? (p124)
A: No


This FAQ ... very poorly written and now we need a FAQ for the FAQ

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Version 2 Deldar 1500 -1750 w/ analysis    Version 2 Deldar 1500 -1750 w/ analysis   I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 14 2013, 15:35

Reapers are OP. Wink

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egorey
The Duck of Death
egorey

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PostSubject: Re: Version 2 Deldar 1500 -1750 w/ analysis    Version 2 Deldar 1500 -1750 w/ analysis   I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 14 2013, 15:49

Here is a list I never lost with Mushlek ...

It has AI, AT AA ... a real AE list.


== 1500 ==

Farseer,  Singing Spear 105
Farseer,  Singing Spear 105

3x !0 Dire Avengers, Wave Serpent, TL Scatterlasers, Holofields 795

3x 3 Dark Reapers, Exarch, Tempest Missile Launcher, Fast Shot, Night Vison 405

Aegis Defene Line, Icarus Lascannon 85

UNBEATABLE - WELL ...

When never played it has no losses! So unbeatable until it is on the table, lol
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PostSubject: Re: Version 2 Deldar 1500 -1750 w/ analysis    Version 2 Deldar 1500 -1750 w/ analysis   I_icon_minitime

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