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 A little clarafiaction on a few things

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Tiri Rana
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Sandy Death
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PostSubject: A little clarafiaction on a few things   A little clarafiaction on a few things I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 09 2013, 02:31

Hi Members,
I'm just getting back into the dark Eldar and 40K after several years away fromn gaming. I have the current 40K rules and the latest DE Codex and would like to get a few things cleared up:

1. There's a new rule, "The Hammer of Wrath" (pg 37 8th edition) that our Reavers and Hellions fall under. It gives us a str=3 hit when assaulting for each model we get into contact (I=10). (I guess this is 40Ks version of WFB's impact rule for big guys.) This is before we resolve our combat. Is this correct the way I read it?

2. On page 45 of the rule book it says Eldar and Dark Eldar Jetbikes get an additional 2D6 move in the assault phase. So I read that to mean we move 36 inches (12 " plus 24" turboboosters) then after we've used our bladevanes and Caltrops we get to scoot away 2 D6 more. Potentially 48" on one move. Is that right?

3. If a unit of Kabalite Warriors wipes out an enemy unit by shooting they still get the pain token. Correct"
What if an enemy unit runs off the board. Does the unit that caused it to run away get a pain token?

4. For the Incubi: When I upgrade one to a Klaivex and take "Onslaught" the whole unit of Incubi get to make an additional bonus attack on a wound of 6. Correct? Its a little confusing because the special rules say "(Klaivex only)"

5. The Talos is now a Monsterous Creature (before it was a skimmer) so that means it can use the "Run" rule, correct?
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Dra'al Nacht
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PostSubject: Re: A little clarafiaction on a few things   A little clarafiaction on a few things I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 09 2013, 02:55

1. Yes, Reavers and Hellions can both use HoW. Hellions can only do it if they activate their Jump Packs during the Assault phase rather than in the Movement phase. Note that Hellions get +1S for the Skyboard during HoW attacks.

2. After a Turboboost move (which for Eldar/DE Jetbikes is 36") you cannot make any further voluntary moves in the same turn so no, you can't use that extra 2D6" move after turboboosting.

3. They would have to actually destroy the unit to get the Pain Token.

4. While 'Onslaught' affects the whole unit, only the Klaivex actually has the rule. If you lose the Klaivex, you lose the rule.

5. Yes.

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Tiri Rana
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PostSubject: Re: A little clarafiaction on a few things   A little clarafiaction on a few things I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 09 2013, 03:10

1. It is not resolved before combat, but at initiative 10. The baron uses strength 5 all other units use their unmodified strength, though, so no +1 for hellions or +1 for combat drugs.

2. No, after turbo-boosting a unit can't perform any voluntary action, including the extra move. But Eldar Jetbikes may turbo-boost up to 36".

3. The FAQ says "no matter how the unit was destroyed". A unit that is falling back and comes into contact with a table edge is removed as casualties and thus destroyed.

4. The special rule says "the Klaivex or an Icubus in his unit". (Klaivex only) means that only the Klaivex has this special rule and not the unit as a whole, so if he dies it's gone.

5. Yes, it can.

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Tony Spectacular
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PostSubject: Re: A little clarafiaction on a few things   A little clarafiaction on a few things I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 09 2013, 14:53

To clarify, the Reavers can indeed move 48" in a turn. They move 12" normally, then can turboboost another 36".

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Sandy Death
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PostSubject: Re: A little clarafiaction on a few things   A little clarafiaction on a few things I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 09 2013, 15:47

Now the way I read the reaver movement is:

Movement phase: 12 "
Shooting phase = 24 turbo boost. (I'm guessing most players just move the full 36" in the movement phase to save time)
Assault phase = 2D6

Also the DE Codex says the reavers must use Turboboosters to get the Bladevanes to work. So just moving 12 inches over an enemy in the movement phase won't generate those D3 S4 attacks. Is that correct?

So here's a tactic I think would fall under JetBike rules. Tell me what you think.

1.A bike squad could move 12 inches in the movement phase to get in range of say a tank or a special character.
2. Then in the shooting phase fire off a couple of blasters (and all their splinter weapons if a character).
3. Then in the assualt phase roll the 2 D6 and move say behind a building to avoid retalitory fire and a counter charge.

Is this a workable legal tactic?


Thanks
Sandy
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Dra'al Nacht
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PostSubject: Re: A little clarafiaction on a few things   A little clarafiaction on a few things I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 09 2013, 15:58

I believe you're still a little confused about the Reavers' movement.

Here's how it goes: EITHER

1. Movement phase: up to 12" movement.
2. Shooting phase: Turboboost Up to 36" (for a total of 48" for the turn)
3. Assault phase: NO movement allowed

OR

1. Movement phase: up to 12" movement.
2. Shooting phase: Shoot weapons (no movement)
3. Assault phase: up to 2D6" movement.

Hope this helps.

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Tiri Rana
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PostSubject: Re: A little clarafiaction on a few things   A little clarafiaction on a few things I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 09 2013, 16:06

@Sandy Death wrote:
Now the way I read the reaver movement is:

Movement phase: 12 "
Shooting phase = 24 turbo boost. (I'm guessing most players just move the full 36" in the movement phase to save time)
Assault phase = 2D6
As was said before, Eldar jetbikes may turbo-boost up to 36".
And if you turbo-boosted you can't use the 2D6 movement.

@Sandy Death wrote:
Also the DE Codex says the reavers must use Turboboosters to get the Bladevanes to work. So just moving 12 inches over an enemy in the movement phase won't generate those D3 S4 attacks. Is that correct?
Correct.

@Sandy Death wrote:
So here's a tactic I think would fall under JetBike rules. Tell me what you think.

1.A bike squad could move 12 inches in the movement phase to get in range of say a tank or a special character.
2. Then in the shooting phase fire off a couple of blasters (and all their splinter weapons if a character).
3. Then in the assualt phase roll the 2 D6 and move say behind a building to avoid retalitory fire and a counter charge.

Is this a workable legal tactic?
Yes, it is.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: A little clarafiaction on a few things   A little clarafiaction on a few things I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 09 2013, 16:22

Tiri Rana as usual is spot on with all those rules. As is Dra'al Nacht explanation of how reaver movement works (though he was incorrect about questions 1 and 3).

If you are looking for reaver tactics, you might want to check out the battle reports linked in my signature.

Hope that helps. Smile

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Dra'al Nacht
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PostSubject: Re: A little clarafiaction on a few things   A little clarafiaction on a few things I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 09 2013, 23:49

Not sure what I got wrong in my answer to question 1. Maybe I didn't clarify that HoW is not before combat?
Edit: I see now, I was confusing the Hellion's generic Skyboard with the Baron's Custom Skyboard (which does get a bonus to S for HoW).

Question 3. raises a couple of interesting points that aren't fully covered by the rules and faq: If you do get a pain token for a unit falling back off the table, who gets the token if multiple units cause the casualties that result in the Morale check? Randomly determine? Also, what if the fall back was the result of a failed test to regroup during a subsequent turn?
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: A little clarafiaction on a few things   A little clarafiaction on a few things I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 10 2013, 06:51

Number 1 was wrong because no modifiers or special rules ever affect hammer of wrath (according to the main rule book faq). Of course GW went against their own ruling when they FAQed the baron.

Number 3, I would randomise the pain token if multiple units caused a unit to fall back of the table edge. If the unit falls off several turns later I would probably not say it grants a pain token (though that is up for debate).

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Dra'al Nacht
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PostSubject: Re: A little clarafiaction on a few things   A little clarafiaction on a few things I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 10 2013, 07:39

@Mushkilla wrote:
Number 3, I would randomise the pain token if multiple units caused a unit to fall back of the table edge. If the unit falls off several turns later I would probably not say it grants a pain token (though that is up for debate).
This seems the most reasonable to me. If they fall back off the table on the same turn, the cause is relatively clear. If it happens on a later turn, it may be hard to even recall the possible cause!

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PostSubject: Re: A little clarafiaction on a few things   A little clarafiaction on a few things I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 10 2013, 12:50

I wouldn't say you got a Pain Token at all. The unit isn't destroying them. They took a Morale check and fell back. You're destroyed when you make contact with the table edge when you're falling back. The Dark Eldar didn't actually destroy the unit, falling back did. Just because falling back was a result of the Dark Eldar shooting, doesn't mean they actually destroyed them.

I could be wrong, but that's how I see it.

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Tiri Rana
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PostSubject: Re: A little clarafiaction on a few things   A little clarafiaction on a few things I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 10 2013, 13:06

Under different circumstances I would agree, but the FAQ explicitly says:
BRB FAQ p.3 wrote:
Q:If a unit with the Power from Pain special rule destroys an enemy unit, does it gain a paintoken no matter how the unit was destroyed? For example the resultant explosion from shooting at a vehicle wipes out an enemy unit.(p25)
A: Yes.
In this case the the DE also didn't destroy the unit. The explosion did. But this explosion was caused by DE, so they get a pain token.

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PostSubject: Re: A little clarafiaction on a few things   A little clarafiaction on a few things I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 10 2013, 16:58

Yea, that's actually pretty clear, but the instance where they get destroyed by falling back 2 turns later is iffy at best.

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