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 Fortress of redemption

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exsquared
Hellion
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Join date : 2012-05-28

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PostSubject: Fortress of redemption   Fortress of redemption I_icon_minitimeThu May 16 2013, 15:00

One of the comments on this article (http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/05/dark-eldar-ultimate-spoiler-army.html) got me wondering.

Typically if there is insufficient terrain on the board, especially LOS blocking terrain, going second can be painful to say the least. To mitigate this I've run Vect for the 4+ seize, which even if it doesn't work has still possibly made you opponent deploy a bit less aggressively.

One suggestion was to instead use the Fortress of redemption as it offers some guaranteed LOS blocking terrain and is cheaper than Vect. You also get a decent AA weapon, an AI large blast which for 30 points can seriously hurt any unit without a 2+ and is a great place to sit any infantry models with long range heavy weapons, DL or SC trueborn especially.

You are still vulnerable to barrages and infiltrators but without LOS barrages will be scattering the full amount and infiltrators are not on the board turn 1 to alpha strike you off the board which is the real issue.

Has anyone actually tried this? Am I missing any downsides to this approach?
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bklooste
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PostSubject: Re: Fortress of redemption   Fortress of redemption I_icon_minitimeThu May 16 2013, 17:16

Isnt it easier just let a raider blow up in the right place ?

The issue with the fortress is we are a mobile army , he will see it after terrain and plan accordingly .. Which now means you either abandon it or have a dirty all on all fight there .. so you cant use your mobilty .

If it bothers you have you considered the Barron ...and deep strike your whole army .. He is not bad anyway you can get some splinter born and give them 3+ poison , which adds up when the unit gets 24 shots .. , then move him to an assault unit.

You can then see how your openent moves and use your manevarability to take advantage,


Last edited by bklooste on Thu May 16 2013, 17:22; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : more options)
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craigyy
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Location : London/Brighton

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PostSubject: Re: Fortress of redemption   Fortress of redemption I_icon_minitimeThu May 16 2013, 17:30

I think bklooster means the Duke, not the Baron, Deep Striking is always very risky though.

I say use all the terrain that you can, remember you can keep some units in reserve.

You can also usually hide behind a sideways Raider
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greater_fishy
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PostSubject: Re: Fortress of redemption   Fortress of redemption I_icon_minitimeFri May 17 2013, 07:56

exsquared that doesn't sound like a terrible idea, it worries me that it costs so much though and its a little hard to try without the model

what if you did the same thing with a bastion, you could even infiltrate some mandrakes onto its gun as well if you wanted
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Mandor
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PostSubject: Re: Fortress of redemption   Fortress of redemption I_icon_minitimeFri May 17 2013, 10:02

The Fortress provides four distinct benefits that Dark Eldar (or your gaming table) generally miss:
  • Resilience in the shape of four AV14 buildings, each with battlements;
  • A huge piece of line of sight blocking terrain;
  • A decent skyfire/interceptor gun;
  • A large blast barrage weapon.


However, as said above, it is a static object in a generally very mobile army. Also, building damage generally subjects the occupants to STR6 Ignore Cover wounds, which negates two things we rely on: cover and FnP. And finally, it's 250 points.

Allied with Eldar, the Fortress becomes truly evil. Put a small squad of Fire Dragons with upgraded Exarch with the Lascannon, a small squad of Dark Reapers with upgraded Exarch with the Missile Launcher and a Farseer with Rangers/Pathfinders on the battlements. This gives you a heavy 2 STR8 AP3 large blast barrage weapon, a tankhunter ignore cover skyfire/interceptor lascannon, rerollable 2+ cover save snipers and the best psyker defense in game.
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Cavalier
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Fortress of redemption   Fortress of redemption I_icon_minitimeFri May 17 2013, 12:48

Good points Mandor. The Ranger, Dark Reaper combo is nasty, I've run it many times. As for concerns about the fortress hampering DE mobility, if placed well its no problem, and the advantage for our highly mobile units is that it blocks LOS on the first turn. Its an expensive option but could work... especially if you have some static units to take make the best of the fortress' weaponry and defensive advantages.
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Bozo69PD
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PostSubject: Re: Fortress of redemption   Fortress of redemption I_icon_minitimeFri May 17 2013, 16:30

I had a similar post here https://www.thedarkcity.net/t6558-decapitator-mandrakes-bastion#71093 but was trying to keep the cost down.

I liked the idea of having the infiltrators for it so I can start the bastion offensively right near the opponents side of the board.
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bklooste
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PostSubject: Re: Fortress of redemption   Fortress of redemption I_icon_minitimeWed May 22 2013, 09:15

@Cavalier wrote:
As for concerns about the fortress hampering DE mobility, if placed well its no problem,

Against a good oponent your giving a lot of pointers what you are goling to do since you deploy it before he does.
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commandersasha
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PostSubject: Re: Fortress of redemption   Fortress of redemption I_icon_minitimeWed May 22 2013, 10:35

@bklooste wrote:
Against a good oponent your giving a lot of pointers what you are goling to do since you deploy it before he does.

True, but as "what you are going to do" is "Shoot the hell out of you with lots of accurate powerful guns which are pretty hard for you to silence whilst the rest of my army sneaks up safely behind it for a turn or two then jumps over and mauls what's left", I would have thought it is still pretty powerful!

I make the above Eldar load out about 600 points including the Fortress. As I have a Fortress, I may try this, with a load of proxy models!
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tlronin
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PostSubject: Re: Fortress of redemption   Fortress of redemption I_icon_minitimeWed May 22 2013, 10:40

Tactic wise it's a solid idea. You' ll have to tool your army around this piece of terrain. It costs a lot, so there's a downside.

For me personally I don't like fortifications because it doesn't sit well with me fluffwise.

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bklooste
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PostSubject: Re: Fortress of redemption   Fortress of redemption I_icon_minitimeWed May 22 2013, 11:41

I think its ok for a 40-60% foot list and the rest mech especially with Eldar ( Dark Reapers ! ) eg pin him with cost effective troops and wrap him . Im not convinced its good for heavy DE or mech. When 80% of your forces are mobile ( and expensive because they are) that 20% causes problems and pins you where you dont want to be .

Also whats wrong with a Aegis wall and quad gun , at least if you go 2nd your skimmers behind get a 4+ cover save. The gun will hamper his air and when he moves to attack it , your entire army can just ignore it and write of the loss. The wall by itself is 50 points.. well worth it for a 4+ cover save .

A footdar list may work but needs terrain besides the bastion which defeats the point of open terrain.
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Deamon
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PostSubject: Re: Fortress of redemption   Fortress of redemption I_icon_minitimeWed May 22 2013, 11:59

@bklooste wrote:
I think its ok for a 40-60% foot list and the rest mech especially with Eldar ( Dark Reapers ! ) eg pin him with cost effective troops and wrap him . Im not convinced its good for heavy DE or mech. When 80% of your forces are mobile ( and expensive because they are) that 20% causes problems and pins you where you dont want to be .

Also whats wrong with a Aegis wall and quad gun , at least if you go 2nd your skimmers behind get a 4+ cover save. The gun will hamper his air and when he moves to attack it , your entire army can just ignore it and write of the loss. The wall by itself is 50 points.. well worth it for a 4+ cover save .

A footdar list may work but needs terrain besides the bastion which defeats the point of open terrain.

Out skimmer don't get 4+ cover save from Aegis line. To get a cover save, 25% of the vehicle must be hidden by the aegis and that's not the case with our skimmers.
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bklooste
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PostSubject: Re: Fortress of redemption   Fortress of redemption I_icon_minitimeWed May 22 2013, 14:51

Quote :
Out skimmer don't get 4+ cover save from Aegis line. To get a cover save, 25% of the vehicle must be hidden by the aegis and that's not the case with our skimmers.

Yes good point ... I always wanted to use them without a base (or a low one) like when you crash unitl i move ...I mean after all you dont get the normal save so your sitting on the ground. I cant really imagine skimmers just sitting there doing nothing high in the air. Should be part of the Jink rule anyway..


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