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ShamPow1999
Hellion
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PostSubject: Venom Variants   Venom Variants I_icon_minitimeSun May 05 2013, 23:22

I find myself constantly wondering, what variants of the venom would be most effective. Some of these variants are the extremly popular such as 5 warriors with a blaster or 3 blasterborn because the both have a mix of AI and AA. However, are there any others which could be popular. What i have in mind is 3 trueborn with 2 splinter cannons to be a stationary gunboat od death! 36 inch range coupled with the fact that you have an built in flicker field by passes the fact that you wont be recieving a jink save. 24 poisoned shots is nothing to laugh at. Possibly, some combination of splinter cannons and darklances? Which do you think is best? Obviously the general troops are efective but what else is? Thank- you. :-)
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doomseer11b
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PostSubject: Re: Venom Variants   Venom Variants I_icon_minitimeMon May 06 2013, 01:24

I have had luck with leaving my anti tank out of true borns hands either completely or give the task totally to them. For example, I have 4 blasters with a non upgraded weapon just to die first. And they go around blowing stuff up, or I upgrade 3 shardcarbines and 2 cannons. So realistically, 12 from the venom, 8 from cannons at full ballistic skill, and 15 from shardcarbines. In which case I leave my anti tank to ravagers, wyches and reavers. On the other hand, if I'm leaving AT to the blasterborn, I will do what I said earlier. I wouldn't waste the points on a cannon with a blaster unit. Wasted points in my opinion. I have found multi designating units doesn't usually work out so well. The 10 pts would be better off upgrading a squad with a "SGT" for the extra leadership

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darthken239
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PostSubject: Re: Venom Variants   Venom Variants I_icon_minitimeMon May 06 2013, 02:19

i have to agree with doomseer11b give the guys one job and have them stick with it.

Either AT or AI options for trueborn are ok
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Balisong
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PostSubject: Re: Venom Variants   Venom Variants I_icon_minitimeMon May 06 2013, 03:43

FYI: You can give Haywires to them rather cheaply as some backup AT. Actually worked out for me last game as their venom was destroyed by a hammerhead ramming it. They survived the wreck and then proceeded to haywire it to death.

It's a good backup addon, and I think it only costs 6 pts if you are running 3 per venom.
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Rancid blade
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PostSubject: Re: Venom Variants   Venom Variants I_icon_minitimeMon May 06 2013, 05:30

I have four venoms with night shields and two splinter cannons each. They hang out in the back field and blast away at any infantry that needs blasting. The splinter cannon's range is so good that they don't need to get up close. I run them with wracks as troops. The wracks are great. They can give up pain tokens to ICs, hold back-field objectives, don't die as badly if the venom pops, and can contest objectives if the venoms survive to the end of the game. Most of the time my forward elements (beasts and incubi) or ravagers draw so much attention that the venoms make it through the game. RB
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DominicJ
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PostSubject: Re: Venom Variants   Venom Variants I_icon_minitimeMon May 06 2013, 07:35

I've tried Wyches with Haywire, Kabalites with Blasters, and incubi with archon.
Good clean fun.

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Archon_Demetrious
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PostSubject: Re: Venom Variants   Venom Variants I_icon_minitimeMon May 06 2013, 17:31

I have tried :
Venom w/ dual SC and HwG wytches (works too good especially in DOW deployment)

Venom w/ dual SC FF and NS w/ 4 trueborn w/ 2SC and 2 Shardcarbines ( rushed in and it does mayhem)

I have also done venom w/ dual SC w/ 5 trueborn w/ 2 dark lances and 3 splinter pistols w/ HWG behind a ADL and darenthem to assualt this 5 guys lol (I had the venom empty to assist my warriors in the raider for more AI firepower. And usually once my raider explodes had the surviving warriors jump into that same venom and the face my opponent puts is priceless)

And I strongly believe in multiples of anything since we are the most fragile army
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Brom
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PostSubject: Re: Venom Variants   Venom Variants I_icon_minitimeMon May 06 2013, 18:17

Quote :
I have four venoms with night shields and two splinter cannons each. They hang out in the back field and blast away at any infantry that needs blasting. The splinter cannon's range is so good that they don't need to get up close. I run them with wracks as troops. The wracks are great. They can give up pain tokens to ICs, hold back-field objectives, don't die as badly if the venom pops, and can contest objectives if the venoms survive to the end of the game. Most of the time my forward elements (beasts and incubi) or ravagers draw so much attention that the venoms make it through the game. RB
My preferred strategy is pretty much identical to this. The combination of aggressive forward pressure with resilient threats and night shield gunboats in the backfield is so good and very hard to deal with. I love this style of play since winning without objectives is actually the primary gameplan (at least for me) and many opponents dont recognize this early enough to make the necessary adjustments to their own strategy.
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Sky Serpent
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PostSubject: Re: Venom Variants   Venom Variants I_icon_minitimeMon May 06 2013, 21:40

When I first saw the thread title I thought it was going to be a debate over whether to upgrade the twin-linked splinter rifle to a splinter cannon - I've never seen one not upgraded other than the GW studio one. I have no doubt that Venoms will be nerfed in the next edition though.

Anyhow, I run 2 x 5 Kabalite Warriors and 2 x 5 Wyches with Haywires in mine. I find them both diverse and helpful in different ways.

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Tony Spectacular
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PostSubject: Re: Venom Variants   Venom Variants I_icon_minitimeTue May 07 2013, 02:19

@Sky Serpent wrote:
I have no doubt that Venoms will be nerfed in the next edition though.

Sadly, this. I've heard too many people express surprise and dismay that they get to fire with BS4 to expect anything other than a reduction to BS3 when the time rolls around. Sadface. Sad
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doomseer11b
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PostSubject: Re: Venom Variants   Venom Variants I_icon_minitimeTue May 07 2013, 06:57

@Archon_Demetrious wrote:
I have tried :
Venom w/ dual SC and HwG wytches (works too good especially in DOW deployment)

Venom w/ dual SC FF and NS w/ 4 trueborn w/ 2SC and 2 Shardcarbines ( rushed in and it does mayhem)

I have also done venom w/ dual SC w/ 5 trueborn w/ 2 dark lances and 3 splinter pistols w/ HWG behind a ADL and darenthem to assualt this 5 guys lol (I had the venom empty to assist my warriors in the raider for more AI firepower. And usually once my raider explodes had the surviving warriors jump into that same venom and the face my opponent puts is priceless)

And I strongly believe in multiples of anything since we are the most fragile army


I'm confused by this, how do you undedicate a transport? Or bring an empty transport? However you did this? Sorry if this is dumb but I thought you couldn't put another squad in another transport.

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DominicJ
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PostSubject: Re: Venom Variants   Venom Variants I_icon_minitimeTue May 07 2013, 07:10

All dedicated transport means is that only the dedicated unit can start in the vehicle.
Its doesnt have to, and T1, another unit can jump in

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Skizzik_NZ
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PostSubject: Re: Venom Variants   Venom Variants I_icon_minitimeTue May 07 2013, 07:58

@Tony Spectacular wrote:
@Sky Serpent wrote:
I have no doubt that Venoms will be nerfed in the next edition though.

Sadly, this. I've heard too many people express surprise and dismay that they get to fire with BS4 to expect anything other than a reduction to BS3 when the time rolls around. Sadface. Sad

That makes no sense though, prettymuch the entire army is bs4, vehicles generally fire at the bs of the default troops of the army give or take special rules.
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Tony Spectacular
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PostSubject: Re: Venom Variants   Venom Variants I_icon_minitimeTue May 07 2013, 13:15

Agreed. But what does making sense have to do with it? This is just my personal fear, not backed up by any rumors or anything. Hopefully I'll be proven wrong.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Venom Variants   Venom Variants I_icon_minitimeTue May 07 2013, 13:40

@Tony Spectacular wrote:
@Sky Serpent wrote:
I have no doubt that Venoms will be nerfed in the next edition though.

Sadly, this. I've heard too many people express surprise and dismay that they get to fire with BS4 to expect anything other than a reduction to BS3 when the time rolls around. Sadface. Sad

I'd imagine they would nerf splinter cannons rather than the venom itself. That too is unnecessary though. 12 shots at BS4 is 8 hits, 4 wounds at AP5 and they cannot do anything at all to vehicles. Hardly game breaking!

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Venom Variants   Venom Variants I_icon_minitimeTue May 07 2013, 13:47

They will probably just increase the point cost of venoms.

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average joe
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PostSubject: Re: Venom Variants   Venom Variants I_icon_minitimeTue May 07 2013, 14:01

In my slowly growing experience with them I'd say that an AV10 vehicle with two hull points that itself can only kill infantry, and can only transport 5 models doesn't need a points increase. So let's hope GW doesn't think contrary. I don't see them putting out a new dedicated transport model to compete with the Venom. So why make it cost more points? Of course I've played GW games long enough to know that they change stuff without any discernible rationale.
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Gobsmakked
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PostSubject: Re: Venom Variants   Venom Variants I_icon_minitimeTue May 07 2013, 14:03

@Count Adhemar wrote:

I'd imagine they would nerf splinter cannons rather than the venom itself. That too is unnecessary though. 12 shots at BS4 is 8 hits, 4 wounds at AP5 and they cannot do anything at all to vehicles. Hardly game breaking!

Precisely my sentiment, too.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Venom Variants   Venom Variants I_icon_minitimeTue May 07 2013, 14:05

Changes to armies are made with one aim only - sell more models. If GW has sold lots of model A and not a lot of model B then the next version of the rules/codex will almost certainly make B a much more attractive choice either by buffing B or nerfing A (or both).

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doomseer11b
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PostSubject: Re: Venom Variants   Venom Variants I_icon_minitimeTue May 07 2013, 14:25

Thank you dominic

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Brom
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PostSubject: Re: Venom Variants   Venom Variants I_icon_minitimeTue May 07 2013, 17:35

I really doubt venoms will get a nerf. They are great and spammable but the main limiting factor is the entire army has strength X. Theres a point of diminishing returns with anything, and ours is anti infantry with despairity in the AT department. Very few armies have such an armywide handicap so I think the venom is fine. Now if splinter cannons had a strength value that would be a whole nother story.
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BMD
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PostSubject: Re: Venom Variants   Venom Variants I_icon_minitimeTue May 07 2013, 19:30

I don't see Venoms getting nerfed rules-wise. They may get a little more expensive though...
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sgb69
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PostSubject: Re: Venom Variants   Venom Variants I_icon_minitimeWed May 08 2013, 01:24

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Changes to armies are made with one aim only - sell more models. If GW has sold lots of model A and not a lot of model B then the next version of the rules/codex will almost certainly make B a much more attractive choice either by buffing B or nerfing A (or both).

This.

But don't worry. When we get our new codex in 5 years or so it'll have plenty of new shiny bits to buy.

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Dooppie
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PostSubject: Re: Venom Variants   Venom Variants I_icon_minitimeFri May 10 2013, 20:11

So Vemon are so good that they are good in every dark eldar army?
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Mandor
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PostSubject: Re: Venom Variants   Venom Variants I_icon_minitimeFri May 10 2013, 22:06

@Dooppie wrote:
So Vemon are so good that they are good in every dark eldar army?
Short answer: yes.
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