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 what to do after your vehicles blow up?

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Squierboy
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that 9uy
Hellion
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PostSubject: what to do after your vehicles blow up?   what to do after your vehicles blow up? I_icon_minitimeFri May 03 2013, 17:45

So like all of us I use lots of transports. However I have trouble with how to be as effective as possible once they blow up. Any suggestions?
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: what to do after your vehicles blow up?   what to do after your vehicles blow up? I_icon_minitimeFri May 03 2013, 17:49

My transports are almost always empty. That way they get ignored, and if they don't it's not a big deal as they are empty. This means tend to be around later in the game when I need their mobility to relocate my troops or capture objectives.

Don't stay in a transport a second longer than you need to is my advice for this edition.

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doomseer11b
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PostSubject: Re: what to do after your vehicles blow up?   what to do after your vehicles blow up? I_icon_minitimeFri May 03 2013, 20:30

So how do you suggest we get our wyches across the board? Everyone says they are useless in this edition, but a squad decked with hydra gauntlets and a PGL has done me very well, IF AND I STRESS IF THEY MAKE IT. Is there a good way to avoid being blown up. Its really a roll of the dice for me so far, I go all out and give Aethersails for the extra few inches. If they get out, generally they do very well, but about 50% of the time they blow up and half the squad dies. The only way i have tried to combat this is to have a trans and a squad of wyches used as a decoy. Its expensive but i usually have 2 squads of wyches on raiders, and a Grots with Urien in a raider. Has done me pretty well so far, but i would like to see my wyches be used more effectively. any suggestions?

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Balisong
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PostSubject: Re: what to do after your vehicles blow up?   what to do after your vehicles blow up? I_icon_minitimeFri May 03 2013, 20:37

1) Go First
2) Have higher priority targets
3) Use cover (from your own units if necessary
4) Slam a pair of bras knuckles onto the table and make mean faces at your opponent during their turn.
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PostSubject: Re: what to do after your vehicles blow up?   what to do after your vehicles blow up? I_icon_minitimeFri May 03 2013, 21:14

5) Reserve them if you go second (if you can't hide them from line of sight).

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doomseer11b
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PostSubject: Re: what to do after your vehicles blow up?   what to do after your vehicles blow up? I_icon_minitimeFri May 03 2013, 22:37

I will have to remember the mean face and brass knuckles. Good point on the reserves. Kills me that I always feel obligated to h e everything immediately and in their face first turn.

Sorry for hi-jacking the thread

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Timatron
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PostSubject: Re: what to do after your vehicles blow up?   what to do after your vehicles blow up? I_icon_minitimeSat May 04 2013, 00:16

One thing that I do is take some rectangles of hardboard, about the same dimensions as a raider, put some gravel, rocks and spare bits (prow,sails etc.) from the raider kit on there. That way, at least you've got the bit of cover for when the inevitable 'Kaboom!' occurs. A pgl also helps buff this to a 4+, provided you've got right up in the enemies faces and let's face it, you should have done! jocolor
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Balisong
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PostSubject: Re: what to do after your vehicles blow up?   what to do after your vehicles blow up? I_icon_minitimeSat May 04 2013, 01:16

I use these templates: http://www.gdesignsinc.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=9&Itemid=2

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darthken239
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PostSubject: Re: what to do after your vehicles blow up?   what to do after your vehicles blow up? I_icon_minitimeSat May 04 2013, 01:41

i usually just work on the theory that my raider's will never ever survive any game i play.
Once they've dropped off their payload I'll move them to block line off of sight, fire lanes and roads. and remember unless they explode you can leave the model there with suitable marker.

ive got 6 of the older model ravager/raider i use for this purpose, anything that impedes the enemies LOS is good for us
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PostSubject: Re: what to do after your vehicles blow up?   what to do after your vehicles blow up? I_icon_minitimeSat May 04 2013, 03:06

Quote :
So like all of us I use lots of transports. However I have trouble with how to be as effective as possible once they blow up. Any suggestions?

Some of this depends on what your transporting, but in general I roll the same as Mushkilla and darthken.

I put my troops out of harms way until the fightings done and run most of em empty except for those transporting more durable killy things like grots and incubi, these get EAS so I have more freedom of deployment and can threaten the same or greater range.

Once they explode, and they will explode I place appropriately sized terrain (something I didnt do until DE) and put my dudes in it for a 5++ cover save, 3++ if gone to ground (some people miss this). Afterwards if the unit lives I hopefully move free of the crater/terrain so I dont have to charge through difficult although often I must anyway. If your guys have guns the terrain might be the safest place to be, say if your 10 kabalites in a raider that wrecks for example. If no guns you gotta clear the difficult ground to charge at initiative (unless charging through other DG or into DG).

Also planning to have your ride wrecked can change what upgrades you spring for which is useful. This acceptance of its demise can also help you plan where a crater might hurt the most... say in front of a mobile mech contingent for example to force DT tests.

Lastly Ive had rhinos used against me to to great effect by leaving LoS blocking wreckage that protected his unit with the relic...I lost because of that tactic where I would of otherwise won the game IMO. Partly my fault due to new 6th rules I was unprepared for how rare vehicles explode now (ours excepted).

Theres probably more but thats what ive got for now.

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PostSubject: Re: what to do after your vehicles blow up?   what to do after your vehicles blow up? I_icon_minitimeSat May 04 2013, 04:49

Born that was terrific. Never had I thought of positioning my raiders to blow up! Terrific idea!
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PostSubject: Re: what to do after your vehicles blow up?   what to do after your vehicles blow up? I_icon_minitimeSat May 04 2013, 05:23

100% with mush on not staying in your transports any longer then you have to. For me that is usually to move up and get better firing lanes first turn. I usually jump my duds out right away.

As with raiders. When I fight a gun line I often sacrifice two empty raiders and turbo them both across the board and turn them sideways in front of my opponents thickest shoo.ting. This blocks them from shooting a good chunk of my force, and gives me some cover.
I did this to a space wolf player thst had 3 longfang units with max missle launchers and wolfguard battle leaders in termy armour with cyclone missles launchers behind an aegis line.. So 7 krack/frag missles shots per unit. I used the raiders to get into his face and make him deal with them. With turbo they had a 4+ cover save so it took him the turn to kill them. He wrecked the raiders, which were in his way so that basically too his fangs out of the game for awhile. If I wasn't feeling so lazy I'd go into more details, but I am sleepy.

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PostSubject: Re: what to do after your vehicles blow up?   what to do after your vehicles blow up? I_icon_minitimeSat May 04 2013, 05:40

So LoS can't be drawn through the spaces in our vehicles?
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PostSubject: Re: what to do after your vehicles blow up?   what to do after your vehicles blow up? I_icon_minitimeSat May 04 2013, 06:18

It'll provide cover. And some places on our vehicles are quite tall so will block some shots as well

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PostSubject: Re: what to do after your vehicles blow up?   what to do after your vehicles blow up? I_icon_minitimeSat May 04 2013, 16:51

Brom wrote:
Once they explode, and they will explode I place appropriately sized terrain (something I didnt do until DE) and put my dudes in it for a 5++ cover save, 3++ if gone to ground (some people miss this)
Note that the vehicle explodes result allows you to replace the vehicle with 'scattered wreckage' as area terrain, and that gives you a 4+ save (p105 under battlefield debris), increasing to 2+ when you GTG. So I advise everyone to make such terrain pieces for their transports!

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PostSubject: Re: what to do after your vehicles blow up?   what to do after your vehicles blow up? I_icon_minitimeSat May 04 2013, 18:10

That is exactly what I meant, Squierboy. You-can easily make such out of bits of sprue and rocks, plus the spare components from the Raider kit. I also never bother with the pilot/gunner/hangers-on either. That way I get 2 free upright warriors and a few dead guys for free.
jocolor
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PostSubject: Re: what to do after your vehicles blow up?   what to do after your vehicles blow up? I_icon_minitimeSat May 04 2013, 18:57

Timatron wrote:
That is exactly what I meant, Squierboy. You-can easily make such out of bits of sprue and rocks, plus the spare components from the Raider kit. I also never bother with the pilot/gunner/hangers-on either. That way I get 2 free upright warriors and a few dead guys for free.
jocolor
Sure, but a PGL would then buff that save to 3+ (you had stated 4+, which was why I made the point about wreckage). To be honest, at the moment I'm just going with some card cut into the rough shape of a raider/venom, then painted appropriately. Will add some actual spare 'bitz' onto these later when I have the time (& will)!

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PostSubject: Re: what to do after your vehicles blow up?   what to do after your vehicles blow up? I_icon_minitimeSat May 04 2013, 19:13

The wreckage is only 5+.. Its a little ambiguous at first glance and unfortunately I'm away from my rulebook but reference the explodes result and area terrain. The 4+ is for actual craters only not those created by a vehicle iirc so claiming 4+ would be a stretch.

Anyone care to quite the relevant articles please feel free.

Edit- sorry bout the grammar on my phone..


Last edited by Brom on Sat May 04 2013, 23:08; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: what to do after your vehicles blow up?   what to do after your vehicles blow up? I_icon_minitimeSat May 04 2013, 19:30

It's the other way around, Brom - craters are 5+, wreckage is 4+.

Both found on page 105:

"Impact craters are area terrain. If a model is in cover within an impact crater, it has a 5+ cover save."

"Wreckage and rubble are area terrain. If a model is in cover behind wreckage or rubble, it has a 4+ cover save."

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PostSubject: Re: what to do after your vehicles blow up?   what to do after your vehicles blow up? I_icon_minitimeSat May 04 2013, 20:31

Hmm, I had a debate with myself about this. On the one hand, it states it is area terrain, on the other, it uses the phrase "behind". I'm not certain, therefore, if a model has to be 25% obscured by elements of the terrain. It seems quite ambiguous in that way. Well done for quoting the exact wording, Erebus, as it raises an interesting point which I had hitherto assumed only I would even have thought about. Is it 5+ for the area terrain rising to 4+ if obscured by elements of wreckage? I'm not sure as that would seem to suggest it was all down to precisely how one modeled their wreckage; stack it higher for a 4+? What is the general opinion on this?
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PostSubject: Re: what to do after your vehicles blow up?   what to do after your vehicles blow up? I_icon_minitimeSun May 05 2013, 04:50

I seem to recall more sections being relevant to the subject but it was at the onset of 6th so its hazy. iirc wreckage is not what an exploded vehicle becomes, just a normal piece of area terrain (I believe the explodes result clarifies this)
Wreckage otoh is a special type of terrain similar to battlefield debris or some such nonsense. Idk I'll look it all up 2 days from now.
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PostSubject: Re: what to do after your vehicles blow up?   what to do after your vehicles blow up? I_icon_minitimeMon May 06 2013, 02:38

You're right Brom iirc. Unbelievably a wrecked vehicle doesn't become ' wreckage' in the terrain sense! It's a 5+ and difficult terrain.
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PostSubject: Re: what to do after your vehicles blow up?   what to do after your vehicles blow up? I_icon_minitimeMon May 06 2013, 02:40

when a vehicle explodes it is removed and replaced with scattered wreckage (area terrain) OR a crater of roughly the same size. pg 74

Wreckage and rubble are area terrain. if a model is in cover behind wreckage or rubble, it has a 4+ cover save pg 105

the key words being wreckage and the OR here. and you could probably argue both sides. at my club we just go with the simple option of " If you in the crater/wreckage it counts as area terrain 5+ if you on the edge using it like a barricade or wall you get a 4+

if you in a tournament setting best to get the organiser's ruling before playing a game.
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PostSubject: Re: what to do after your vehicles blow up?   what to do after your vehicles blow up? I_icon_minitimeMon May 06 2013, 03:47

That is what I'm talking about. The words 'scattered wreckage' are not a definition, simply descriptive, followed by the actual terrain type classification listed in parenth (area terrain), not any specific area terrain therefore 5+ cover. This is what settled the issue here but I like you're solution too Darth.
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PostSubject: Re: what to do after your vehicles blow up?   what to do after your vehicles blow up? I_icon_minitimeMon May 06 2013, 05:11

Oh 40k. What would I do without your lovable rules ambiguity?

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