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that 9uy
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PostSubject: trueborn vs incubi for elites?   trueborn vs incubi for elites? I_icon_minitimeWed May 01 2013, 06:23

So on average is it worth it to drop a trueborn squad to take some incubi?
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: trueborn vs incubi for elites?   trueborn vs incubi for elites? I_icon_minitimeWed May 01 2013, 07:45

I dunno, but in my experience it's been worth dropping all my elites for reavers.

When I do take elites this edition I find grotesques to be the best by far. They make for a fantastic bodyguard for your HQ and can shrug off an impressive amount of damage.

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PostSubject: Re: trueborn vs incubi for elites?   trueborn vs incubi for elites? I_icon_minitimeWed May 01 2013, 08:28

I would suggest that it may depend if you want your elites to shoot primarily or melee.

Trueborn benefits are largely the amount of up-gunning they can do, Incubi are for the hack and slay.

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Talos
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PostSubject: Re: trueborn vs incubi for elites?   trueborn vs incubi for elites? I_icon_minitimeWed May 01 2013, 09:43

Its depends how the rest of your army looks like and your playstile.
If you have inqubi/grotesques as your only cc unit then they will not preform very well. Incbis works as a compliment to wyches and rely any cc unit, adding more power weapon attacks to where they are needed. I would advice against a large unit of incubi, because they work more like a support unit.
I use my incubi in squads of 3-4, there job is to add teeth to my other cc units.
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DominicJ
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PostSubject: Re: trueborn vs incubi for elites?   trueborn vs incubi for elites? I_icon_minitimeWed May 01 2013, 12:37

Incubi do what no other option can do.
Trueborn, do what a lot else does fairly well.

But it depends on your list.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: trueborn vs incubi for elites?   trueborn vs incubi for elites? I_icon_minitimeWed May 01 2013, 12:43

@DominicJ wrote:
Incubi do what no other option can do.

In my case that appears to be die horribly whilst inflicting no real damage Embarassed

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Talos
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PostSubject: Re: trueborn vs incubi for elites?   trueborn vs incubi for elites? I_icon_minitimeWed May 01 2013, 12:52

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@DominicJ wrote:
Incubi do what no other option can do.

In my case that appears to be die horribly whilst inflicting no real damage Embarassed

You’re lucky then, die horrible is something everything in my army is cable of
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MasterofPuppets
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PostSubject: Re: trueborn vs incubi for elites?   trueborn vs incubi for elites? I_icon_minitimeWed May 01 2013, 13:24

Incubi make great personal bodyguard for an Archon, if you need something to absolutely die. Trueborn, in their very nature, are masters of dishing out tons of special weapon shots that is lacking from your troop choices, like if you take Wyches or Wracks.
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wanderingblade
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PostSubject: Re: trueborn vs incubi for elites?   trueborn vs incubi for elites? I_icon_minitimeWed May 01 2013, 15:08

I've been experimenting a fair bit with Incubi recently. They won me one battle, pretty much killing half the opposition army, including a Whirlwind (furious charge ftw) and in the other battle... not so much. They did ok, but circumstances forced me to use them rashly.

One trouble I think Incubi have - with MEQ armies at least - is completely overkilling stuff. I am increasingly attracted to the idea of using a small unit as trouble shooters/counter attack/opportunists. Hold them back slightly, then send them haring off after the enemy's hard targets/exposed units once this becomes apparent. Only issue is you really want to keep costs down, but you also want a Phantasm Grenade Launcher, so... hopefully using them as a counter attack unit allows them to pick on fools in the open. Hopefully. Truth be told, a lot of targets, I'd just charge and be damned, particularly if you have a pain token. You're not easy to kill, and can get away with it against a lot of stuff. The only issue is that sort of stuff can be dealt with by lesser mortals; the units you want Incubi against are also the ones you want grenades against.

I have no experience with Trueborn.
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PostSubject: Re: trueborn vs incubi for elites?   trueborn vs incubi for elites? I_icon_minitimeWed May 01 2013, 16:06

My Issue with Incubi is overkill as well.

When I assault something, I don't want to destroy that Unit during that initial combat phase.

I want the Unit to remain locked in combat until the opponent's combat phase in order to keep them safe during the opponent's shooting phase.

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: trueborn vs incubi for elites?   trueborn vs incubi for elites? I_icon_minitimeWed May 01 2013, 17:26

also needing a PGL Archon with incubi to be truely effective makes them a huge point unit just sitting there waiting for their transport to be downed

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PostSubject: Re: trueborn vs incubi for elites?   trueborn vs incubi for elites? I_icon_minitimeWed May 01 2013, 19:47

If you could just take plenty of 4-5 man units with grenades built in and use them to troll units they'd be amazing. Its the fact you need to start death starring a little that really hurts them imo.
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sgb69
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PostSubject: Re: trueborn vs incubi for elites?   trueborn vs incubi for elites? I_icon_minitimeWed May 01 2013, 21:26

I like incubi, but then I run a bunch of close range & assault units so they aren't ever left on their own against half the enemy army.

I think that they may be most cost effective in squads of 6 to 7 without an Archon. Gotta keep your attrition in mind. That said, I'm not really feeling the lack of grenades so much.

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PostSubject: Re: trueborn vs incubi for elites?   trueborn vs incubi for elites? I_icon_minitimeThu May 02 2013, 09:30

în my opinion încubi are very good cc units. in the top 5 of cc potential but they cost so many points that in competitive play you rarely see them. Trueborn are normally taken for the possibility of bring kitted up Ai or At at a decent point cost
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PostSubject: Re: trueborn vs incubi for elites?   trueborn vs incubi for elites? I_icon_minitimeThu May 02 2013, 09:59

@OP: I find these topics about unit X versus unit Y very strange (and therefor rarily participate in them). It's not that cut and dry. You' ll always have to look at the list you're building and what unit you need.
So if you have your armylist, I' ll be happy to tell you in you could use Trueborn (dakka) or Incubi (CC).

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PostSubject: Re: trueborn vs incubi for elites?   trueborn vs incubi for elites? I_icon_minitimeThu May 02 2013, 14:01

@sgb69 wrote:
That said, I'm not really feeling the lack of grenades so much.
Same here. I just dont see that much that can hurt them sat in cover.
5 in a venom clocks in under 200pts, and can threaten anything thats not a deathstar

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PostSubject: Re: trueborn vs incubi for elites?   trueborn vs incubi for elites? I_icon_minitimeThu May 02 2013, 14:40

I for one don't understand this obsession with PGL Archons for the Incubi. People even say they don't work without it! If you are attacking units in cover, they most of the time tend to be shooty units that won't be hurting you anyway. And if they do, awesome!, less overkill. All the stabby units eill be rushing for you anyway, so just by holding back your Incubi as a support mop-up crew, you should get the jump on them.

What I'm trying to say is, you don't really need a PGL to make Incubi work, do you.

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Talos
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PostSubject: Re: trueborn vs incubi for elites?   trueborn vs incubi for elites? I_icon_minitimeThu May 02 2013, 15:47

@Kinnay wrote:

What I'm trying to say is, you don't really need a PGL to make Incubi work, do you.

On that, we totly agree
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darthken239
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PostSubject: Re: trueborn vs incubi for elites?   trueborn vs incubi for elites? I_icon_minitimeThu May 02 2013, 15:48

it all really comes down to what is your kabal lacking? AT or AI

obviously every club has different play styles and what works really well at your local club may get totally trounced if you go out of town to another place.

if your lacking CC ability then incubi, if CC is not the problem then go for trueborn for some more firepower.

show us a list of what you have and it'll be easy to advise you.
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PostSubject: Re: trueborn vs incubi for elites?   trueborn vs incubi for elites? I_icon_minitimeThu May 02 2013, 15:49

I've been reading the forum for a while now and find it to be a great resource. Thank you all for making it what it is. The tactics board has been of the most interest to me since I ran a webway list exclusively in 5th with a lot of close combat units. Moving to 6th has been fun, but a close combat Webway list has been difficult to utilize. I'm transitioning to a different list, but really dont want to buy an entirely new and different army.

On topic with Incubi... I've found a large squad of 10 with a Klaivex in a raider with Aether Sails is quite effective. It is a mixed approach though. It is durable (relative), killy, and a distraction.

It is around 300 points, but enemies are forced to deal with them. With the 3+ save, and hopefully in cover, they aren't easy to destroy. Even if they lose 5 guys, they are still combat effective. And the fact the enemy isn't using anti-infantry fire to down Raiders is worth quite a bit by itself.

Between them and Trueborn, I concur with other statements that it depends on the rest of the army. I so think that Incubi without a PGL can be effective, but it depends on what you want them to do.
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PostSubject: Re: trueborn vs incubi for elites?   trueborn vs incubi for elites? I_icon_minitimeThu May 02 2013, 16:17

Ive been running 7-8 incubi without archon support and I find its usually better than a smaller squad with archon, haemie with liquifier is the best option IMO. Incubi dont need more killy they need warm bodies. However, there are many factors here with what you face and terrain being the major two IME.

On opponents, I have found similar to everyone above, that combat units usually dont hide in terrain. However some armies troops qualify as combat units across the board. orks and nids being the main ones that come to mind. These units have guns and can still pack a punch if they get to strike before you, then its how well your rolling armour saves.

The other thing to consider, and one which we can control, is crater size. Ive played meq for many years and never really cared about what size crater replaced my razorback etc so we mostly used stock GW craters/pieces of difficult ground.

Now however DE have caused me to bring my own appropriately sized terrain pieces roughly matched to the chassis size of raiders and venoms respectively. Reason is, units like incubi WILL have their ride shot down and it will likely explode leaving a terrain piece, if available. The cover it provides is great the difficult terrain part though is very bad. Larger craters make it difficult to slog free of the terrain in the movement phase causing us to strike at init 1 even if assaulting units in the open.

Anyway just something to keep in mind if you want to maximize your tactics with incubi. With appropriately sized pieces my units only need to move about 3" to get clear of it in the movement phase.

Lastly a bullet catching haemie that gives FNP is very efficient with his 2 ablative wounds and liquifier.
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Tony Spectacular
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PostSubject: Re: trueborn vs incubi for elites?   trueborn vs incubi for elites? I_icon_minitimeThu May 02 2013, 21:13

@Brom wrote:
Now however DE have caused me to bring my own appropriately sized terrain pieces

Speaking of which...
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PostSubject: Re: trueborn vs incubi for elites?   trueborn vs incubi for elites? I_icon_minitimeFri May 03 2013, 00:55

Dude thats a nice find and the price is cheap enough i would buy some if they were in stock..
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Tony Spectacular
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PostSubject: Re: trueborn vs incubi for elites?   trueborn vs incubi for elites? I_icon_minitimeFri May 03 2013, 02:06

They took them out of stock because they took them to Adepticon. They'll be back in stock as soon as they update the site.

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PostSubject: Re: trueborn vs incubi for elites?   trueborn vs incubi for elites? I_icon_minitimeFri May 03 2013, 07:05

just lay your vehicle on its side/roof like the rest of us...

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