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 Are mandrakes Really that useless?

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LoneZealot
Hellion
LoneZealot

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PostSubject: Are mandrakes Really that useless?   Are mandrakes Really that useless? I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 20 2011, 04:40

As i've posted are mandrakes just utter crap or can there be some use for them? i've considerded putting them with an archon with a blaster, Phantasm, agoniser, shadowfield, drugs. would'nt this be of some use? they can all move at the pace all have rng 18" and stealth is a big help in keeping them alive. ppl are going to be scared of this unit. sure you have to kill something first to get them to shoot /shrug Terror unit till they can freeze ppl to death? just wondering.
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Aroshamash
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PostSubject: Re: Are mandrakes Really that useless?   Are mandrakes Really that useless? I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 20 2011, 08:58

Scout them, preferably bringing them in from reserve from another table edge and near an objective, and pick off a nice, juicy target, preferably a heavy-weapons team or something. Nothing too tough, but a support unit that's easy enough to kill, yet could put out some hurt itself from shooting. Once you've got a pain token, bunker down in some cover, and blast away with shooting. You've got a damn good cover save, FNP, good shooting, and aren't a push-over in cc.

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Spanna uv Komor-AAAGH!
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: Are mandrakes Really that useless?   Are mandrakes Really that useless? I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 20 2011, 09:10

I would suggest perusing these threads:
http://thedarkcity.forummotion.com/t124-alternative-use-of-mandrakes
http://thedarkcity.forummotion.com/t355-archonmandrakes

Both have been theoryhammer threads and as far as I know no play-testing has happened yet, but there are other ideas on how to use the Mandrakes.

I will re-iterate two points: First, you can use a Haemonculus to 'graft' a Pain Token onto Mandrakes and give them Balefire and Feel No Pain to start with. Given most of the Haemonculus's shooting weapons are close-ranged and can even add power-weapon attacks to the unit if you want, you might even want it to stay.

Second, if you join any IC to the Mandrakes, the Mandrakes lose the Stealth rule. Either the entire unit has a special rule, or none of them get it and no DE IC has Stealth.

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Veldrith
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PostSubject: Re: Are mandrakes Really that useless?   Are mandrakes Really that useless? I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 20 2011, 09:33

According to GW's latest 5th edition rulebook FAQ, if any model in a unit has the Stealth USR, the entire unit gets the cover save bonus, so the IC attached to the unit would still benefit from the Stealth USR. This is because the Stealth USR refers to the unit's cover saves, not the model's cover saves. Other save-modifying rules may only apply to individual models.
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General Smooth
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PostSubject: Re: Are mandrakes Really that useless?   Are mandrakes Really that useless? I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 20 2011, 11:42

mmmmmmmmm I've not played mandrakes so my opinion is nearly worthless but as I can't stop myself from seeing my own words in type you'll get my opinion anyway.

I've been trying to fit them into a list. As mentioned in above threads the most obvious uses for them is

1) an anti scout unit - as they infiltrate before scout movement you can place them to prevent scouts getting into key positions e.g. sm scouts in a landspeeder storm getting close enough to a webway carrier for a turn 1 assault. This is helped by the fact you

2) the second way is as a webway bodyguard. With 3+ cover save a number of dudes would be hard to kill - I think there are better units for this (e.g. grots, wracks and harlequins but that's my bias)

a few more are

3) I've been toying with the idea of using them as a pinning battery in conjunction with tormentor grenade launchers. This of course requires a pain point.

4) Strictly as an normal infantry unit a la Stelek. You set them up in your deployment zone with a haemonculus and they steal a ride from someone and ride in to battle screaming and yelping like normal folk.

5) flanking threat via outflank - I don't think this would effect an experienced opponent that much as if you are going second, there is a 50% chance your opponent will get 3 turns without them appearing and the mandrakes won't effect the opponent until his turn 4.

6) tank hunting - this is one I am considering. Either by deep deployment opportunity or by outflanking them they can get pot shots at rear armour or units being protected by armoured walls. 6 of them will get 12 shots on average 8 hits on average one 6 which will stun armour 10 - predators, tau! The trick is getting them a pain token but with our mobility it really shouldn't be a problem if thought through somewhat in advance.

7) objective challengers - they get plonked on an objective nice and early via infiltrate and force the opponent to have to move them.

Cool harrassment unit - they knock about threatening to do something - they don't pose a deadly threat but they do pose a threat. They are also reasonably difficult to kill. Therefore they are a pest and an annoyance to an opponent. He'd prefer if they weren't there. Makes it a difficult choice to kill them or not.

9) flank protection/ bubble wrap - you place these guys where your reavers / wrack raider or whatever is going to turbo boost/move flat out too. Then turn one they are not sitting ducks to assault as your mandrakes can provide a living shield.

10) the archon configuration doesn’t need a haemonculus. I am going to run the archon with a small wrack unit and hop him out with pain token to join them.

Just some thoughts

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PostSubject: Re: Are mandrakes Really that useless?   Are mandrakes Really that useless? I_icon_minitime

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