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Zanais
Kabalite Warrior
Zanais

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PostSubject: Eldars...   Eldars... I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 15 2013, 09:57

Well, can I get any advice about how to beat such list?

Eldrad

4x Guardian Bikes with shuriken cannon
4x Guardian Bikes with shuriken cannon
3x Guardian Bikes with shuriken cannon
3x Guardian Bikes with shuriken cannon

3x War Walkers with dual scatter lasers
3x War Walkers with dual scatter lasers
3x War Walkers with dual scatter lasers

Nightwing Interceptor
Nightwing Interceptor

Aegis + Quad

I have no idea ho to hit it. Their fliers got vector dancer, and war walkers behind aegis with 4+ cover save can shoot far too many guided S6 shots. Also they can overwatch as walkers.
Also I would like advice for pure DE list, so no ally help.
Thanks


Last edited by Zanais on Mon Apr 15 2013, 12:03; edited 1 time in total
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Sky Serpent
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PostSubject: Re: Eldars...   Eldars... I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 15 2013, 10:00

Can you give us an idea of what list you have been using and what models you have at your disposal?

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Zanais
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: Eldars...   Eldars... I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 15 2013, 10:03

I have not played against that list yet, just know its what my opponent will bring. Models dont really matter, I have typical Venom Spam models, but I can prox what I dont have, so its not really a problem.

Thats the list I though of using:

Archon with shadow field, blaster, venom blade

3x Ravager with nightshields

4x 5 warriors in venoms with blaster

3x 3 Blasterborns in Raiders

Aegos + Quad

Archon to Quad, Venoms kill enemy quad or eldrad if possible, Ravagers shoot from 36" to force war walkers to step out from aegis (due to nightshields). Problem is I think I have too few lances to kill those 9 walkers, its 18 hull points, and 4+ cover, and I have only 11 lances on 5 platforms. Mathhammer gives 3,7% to destroy Walker behind aegis with 4+ save Razz not fun hehe


Last edited by Zanais on Wed Apr 17 2013, 18:41; edited 1 time in total
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Eldars...   Eldars... I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 15 2013, 10:23

Where does eldrad go in your opponents list?

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Zanais
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: Eldars...   Eldars... I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 15 2013, 10:24

he usually deploys him with bikes or alone behind LOS cover.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Eldars...   Eldars... I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 15 2013, 10:44

@Zanais wrote:
he usually deploys him with bikes or alone behind LOS cover.

Run some reavers and punish him for using LOS as protection. Once eldrad is dead the list falls apart. Smile

That being said his army seems very static, if you can kill most of the bikes you should be able to win the mission.

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sgb69
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PostSubject: Re: Eldars...   Eldars... I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 15 2013, 11:34

Vector Strike? Sure it isn't Vector Dancer? Or are these some kind of crazy flash gordan swordplanes? With eldar either is possible.

Perhaps take a bastion? The av 14 would make his scatter lasers utterly useless.

His complete lack of flamers or melee means that unless Eldrad rolls up the cover negating psychic power you'll be golden if you can put tons of cheap scoring bodies in cover. Two 20 man Kabalite squads going to ground all game would make for some troll value.

You flat out won't win a shooting contest with this guy. You won't be able to claim air superiority. You won't be able to rely too much on cover either. You also aren't likely to win on kill points either. So it'll come down to if there's enough terrain, if you can assassinate eldrad, or if you can assassinate his troop choices.

For hardmode: it might be fun to run no lances at all and see if you can survive those ignoring war walkers. Though at 24 shots a turn per squad that's a lot of dakka. Works out to 15 wounds per turn per squad assuming Guide or prescience.

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Zanais
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PostSubject: Re: Eldars...   Eldars... I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 15 2013, 12:07

Yes sry, Vector Dancer (too many games with Helldrakes)

Those cheap scoring bodies in cover against so many dakka will have hard time anyway.

What about Razorwing jetfighters with Shatterfield Missiles, height of fliers should negate cover from aegis for walkers and s7 has a good chance of penetrating av 10. Sadly those fighters will die next turn from Interceptors or any survivng Walkers, but maybe its good idea...

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Timatron
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PostSubject: Re: Eldars...   Eldars... I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 15 2013, 17:23

Hmm. Isn't a WarWalker a bit tall and skinny to claim cover from an Aegis? Even the bottom half of the legs being obscured wouldn't amount to 25% of the overall body-mass of the vehicle would it?
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exsquared
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PostSubject: Re: Eldars...   Eldars... I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 15 2013, 18:02

Lots of units of haywire wyches multi-assaulting to deal with the war walkers. With their number of shots and guide you will lose a squad or two but once they are in combat the grenades will do their thing.

Ravagers can try to put a dent in the walkers before hand or ID Eldrad. Venom will make short work of the bikes.
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Brom
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PostSubject: Re: Eldars...   Eldars... I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 16 2013, 03:15

Quote :
Hmm. Isn't a WarWalker a bit tall and skinny to claim cover from an Aegis? Even the bottom half of the legs being obscured wouldn't amount to 25% of the overall body-mass of the vehicle would it?

Ya this, WWs shouldnt get any cover from the ADL.. thats like tervigons claiming the same.

That aside the list is a decent example of eldar S6 spam although it could be worse. Anyway I like the night shields to force him to move, might as well spam raiders with NS too. What would be damn funny though is if you could get a couple taloi into his lines! They would make a complete mess wrecking a walker squadron a turn. T 7 with 3+ would actually require his entire army to get rid of them too. Too bad they compete with ravagers.
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Gobsmakked
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PostSubject: Re: Eldars...   Eldars... I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 16 2013, 08:23

I might be inclined to max out on Dissies, on both Raiders and certainly Ravagers. Useful against the walker squadrons and the bikes. Take Urien with a couple of blobs of S6 Grots, and either aethersails or the Duke to drop them into the backfield nice and quick. Couple or three Venoms. NS all round.

I don't see his bikes lasting very long, or the quad, or the walkers for that matter.
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Zanais
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: Eldars...   Eldars... I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 16 2013, 09:16

About 25%, I only found topics where half ppl said its covered other half said no. I dont go to big tournaments so I have no idea.
Wyches with haywire would have to be a large squad as those walkers will overwatch a lot, Talos would be an option if not heavy support.
How is Dissie 9 shots compared to 3 DL shots? According to Mathhammer DL Ravager has 11.1% to destroy War Walker, Dissie rav has 8.30%. Of course against infantry or bikes Dissie one is much better.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Eldars...   Eldars... I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 16 2013, 09:38

@Zanais wrote:
About 25%, I only found topics where half ppl said its covered other half said no. I dont go to big tournaments so I have no idea.

Simple measure his war walker, measure the height of the wall. Divide the height of the war walker by four. If its more than the height of the wall the walker doesn't get a cover save. Your opponent can't argue with that.

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Zanais
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PostSubject: Re: Eldars...   Eldars... I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 16 2013, 11:40

The problem is if its 25% required to get cover or 25% or mass of the model ? If height I think he will get it but if actuall parts of model has to be covered than I have no idea how to check it. Probably without cover for those Walkers legs are too skinny :d


Last edited by Zanais on Tue Apr 16 2013, 13:05; edited 1 time in total
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Eldars...   Eldars... I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 16 2013, 12:02

@Zanais wrote:
The problem is if its 25% required to get cover or 25% or mass of the model ? If height I think he will get it but if actuall parts of model has to be covered than I have no idea how to check it. probably without cover for those Walkers legs are too skinny :d

Good point. I would go with Mass, I mean covering his toes isn't going to protect any key components of the walker.

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Irakunar Thrax
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PostSubject: Re: Eldars...   Eldars... I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 17 2013, 15:17

Rules as written i'd say 25% of height and not body mass. That's how i would rule it if i were to be a TO.
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MongooseDog
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PostSubject: Re: Eldars...   Eldars... I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 17 2013, 17:07

@Mushkilla wrote:
@Zanais wrote:
The problem is if its 25% required to get cover or 25% or mass of the model ? If height I think he will get it but if actuall parts of model has to be covered than I have no idea how to check it. probably without cover for those Walkers legs are too skinny :d

Good point. I would go with Mass, I mean covering his toes isn't going to protect any key components of the walker.

Logic rarely wins in war gaming rules

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MongooseDog
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PostSubject: Re: Eldars...   Eldars... I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 17 2013, 17:10

Also why did you go with flickerfields? Night shields are better as long as you wiggle your ravagers you get 5+ anyway.

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Zanais
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PostSubject: Re: Eldars...   Eldars... I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 17 2013, 18:42

Bah of course I ment nightshields and I wrote ff. Thats what you get for writing in middle of work at the office.

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Vasara
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PostSubject: Re: Eldars...   Eldars... I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 17 2013, 18:53

@Irakunar Thrax wrote:
Rules as written i'd say 25% of height and not body mass. That's how i would rule it if i were to be a TO.

No. Actual area of the facing is what counts. Walkers are not easily getting cover from Aegis unless you put it on higher ground.
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BMD
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PostSubject: Re: Eldars...   Eldars... I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 18 2013, 14:38

What are peoples thoughts on Storm Guardians? I know that in general they are overlooked cuz they aren't that good, but with a Warlock to boost their WS and I, they are only 5 pts more than a units of Wyches and have a better armor save. They can also take a tougher transport and Fusionguns. I was just thinking that a unit or two of them as allies might work decently.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Eldars...   Eldars... I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 18 2013, 14:56

If you want a close combat unit from Codex Eldar there are plenty to choose from but I wouldn't touch Storm Guardians with a bargepole.

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BMD
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: Eldars...   Eldars... I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 18 2013, 21:44

I wasnt saying they were great. I just think they are just slightly underrated. I tend to enjoy fluffy lists and i think that they could be fun.
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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Eldars...   Eldars... I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 19 2013, 08:23

the only reason to take storm guardians is for the tri-flamer (actually a really good set-up) or fusion guns. I will give them credit as for a cheap way to get melta guns. They aren't bad... just DA or GJB make better troop choices. Also Serpents are overpriced imho (but then again so are raiders...)

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