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 1,500 points for Throne of Skulls May

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Vasara
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Alsarion
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PostSubject: 1,500 points for Throne of Skulls May   1,500 points for Throne of Skulls May I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 11 2013, 16:15

Hello everyone,

I'm going to Throne of Skulls in 6 weeks time and I was just looking for thoughts/feedback on my army list.

I haven't taken my Dark Eldar to a (non-local) tournament/event in a while, and not to Throne of Skulls since 5th ed (where I managed to scrape through to best Dark Eldar which was nice Smile ).

I've tried a few things out and given various ideas a try; what I haven't done is used Incubi at all this edition. They're my favourite unit in terms of look and story (plus they rocked face for me when our very first book was released).

It's not exactly super innovative or anything massively new, but I'd just appreciate a little feedback:

Archon
- Huskblade, Soul Trap, Combat Drugs
- Phantasm Grenade Launcher and Shadowfield - 170 pts

Incubi
- 5 Incubi
- Raider with Nightshield - 180 pts

Kabalite Warriors
- 10 Warriors, Blaster and Dark Lance
- Raider with Flickerfield and Nightshield - 210 pts

(Flickerfield here so the raider doesn't have to move and allows the Dark Lance warrior to fire, these guys tend to sit near an objective anway so I thought, why not!)

Kabalite Warriors
- 5 Warriors, Blaster
- Venom with Additional Splinter Cannon and Nightshield - 135 pts

Kabalite Warriors
- 5 Warriors, Blaster
- Venom with Additional Splinter Cannon and Nightshield - 135 pts

Kabalite Warriors
- 5 Warriors, Blaster
- Venom with Additional Splinter Cannon and Nightshield - 135 pts

Kabalite Warriors
- 5 Warriors, Blaster
- Raider with Nightshield - 130 pts

Razorwing Jetfighter
- Splinter Cannon, 2 Dark Lances, 4 Monoscythe Missiles, Flickerfield and Nightshield - 175 pts

Ravager
- 3 Dark Lances and Nightshield - 115 pts

Ravager
- 3 Dark Lances and Nightshield - 115 pts

1,500 pts

Now, I'd tried two flyers and felt it robbed me of ''on the field'' lances in the early game, which I didn't like because it meant I couldn't always get enough bang for my buck and neuter the enemy before they hurt me too badly.

I'd prefer a Void Raven but no model and no time to convert one Sad (too many other projects on the go).

The Incubi are there as a bully unit and more resilient bodyguard for the Archon than Wyches (mine have a habit of utterly dying every game, forcing my Archon to make heart-in-mouth commando attacks on things).

So far I'm 8 and 2 (losing to Hades/Autocannon Spam Chaos and a Necron list) - so so far, so good.

But comments appreciated.

Caveat - I am a slooooooooooooooooooooow painter, so try and keep that in mind Very Happy - I do have a lot of painted vehicles, wyches and warriors though - 2 Ravagers, 2 Razorwing and 3 Archons (weirdly enough) with different weapons combos.

Cheers,
A
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Vasara
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PostSubject: Re: 1,500 points for Throne of Skulls May   1,500 points for Throne of Skulls May I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 11 2013, 17:04

80 points on night shields. Big no no! Those should be spent on killy stuff. Only incubi raider has real need for night shields and no so sure that even it needs. Razorwings are best with only ff on top of the default setup. You better shoot those missiles while you can so the cannon is no real use. Big Kabalite sqaud in raider is a fire magnet when enemy cannot shoot Incubi.

Othervice it looks good.

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Sky Serpent
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PostSubject: Re: 1,500 points for Throne of Skulls May   1,500 points for Throne of Skulls May I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 11 2013, 21:56

I've got 2nd in DE in my last two visits going 4/0/1 and 3/1/1. They've got rid of the swiss system now, each game is a random opponent so you might get 5 kids with Assault on Black Reach marines or 5 tournament veterans and/or bad match ups. Key to doing well at ToS now is match ups. Go on FB, look at the last two or three results sheets and you'll see the army split, you'll see a lot of what is new. 4 of my friends are going to the same one as you and 3 are taking Tau, I wouldn't be surprised if a 3rd of the field is Tau. Nearly every CSM player ran 2 Heldrakes at the March one.


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Alsarion
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PostSubject: Re: 1,500 points for Throne of Skulls May   1,500 points for Throne of Skulls May I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 11 2013, 22:05

Vasara wrote:
80 points on night shields. Big no no! Those should be spent on killy stuff. Only incubi raider has real need for night shields and no so sure that even it needs. Razorwings are best with only ff on top of the default setup. You better shoot those missiles while you can so the cannon is no real use. Big Kabalite sqaud in raider is a fire magnet when enemy cannot shoot Incubi.

Othervice it looks good.

Thanks for the response Smile

I hear you about the Razorwing, the splinter cannon was glued on in 5th - where it started on the table and could spam weapons like crazy, alas those days are gone. So I'd change that if I could, but I'm WYSIWYG'd into it. It gets Nightshields just because, well, I don't know where to put those last ten points and it can help against being rapid-fire glanced.... but that's a tenuous defense at best Smile - I guess I could take a Sybarite for the larger squad or Ghost Plate Armour on the Archon.

I'm surprised by your thoughts on Night Shields in general though - OK, it IS 80 points I admit, but I find them so useful against most marine armies (plasma and melta suffer a lot due to the range reduction) and Grey Knights and Necrons also operate around the 24'' zone and that extra 6 inches gives me a lot more protection against those types of shooting.

Additionally, I find drawing people towards me opens up avenues for side shots on vehicles and can force the enemy to overextend. I get great mileage out of them, in fact most of my regular opponents find them really frustrating. I'll have a think, but I'm kind of reluctant to take them out.

The big squad does make an obvious magnet, it's true - but by the same token they are a little bit more durable when rushed in to cover and going to ground - things with ignore cover obviously make life hard, but that's part and parcel of the system I guess.

Thanks again for the feedback.


EDIT: Sky Serpent - I'd heard they'd gotten rid of the Swiss system Sad - that's a shame, I always kinda liked that. I'll definitely have a look at the old results, to be honest I'm expecting Chaos, Tau, Necrons and Marines (because they're always popular!).

Lots of Tau doesn't make me feel to great though - all that high strength/long range fire!

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redwulfe
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PostSubject: Re: 1,500 points for Throne of Skulls May   1,500 points for Throne of Skulls May I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 12 2013, 04:18

I find that flicker field does me wonders, though my current matchups tend to be against lots of ignores cover stuff. I do find the night shields great ispecially against rapid fire gauss weapons and space marines, particularly since most of the list i face are noise marines and necrons that would glance me out a lot of the time. I would probably drop the 10 man squad down to 5 and use the extra points to flicker field up. The loss of the one dark lance isn't going to hurt you as much as the gaining of more invulnerable saves for your ravengers and the two raiders will gain you.

Just my thoughts,
Red
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PostSubject: Re: 1,500 points for Throne of Skulls May   1,500 points for Throne of Skulls May I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 14 2013, 19:42

I dig your list man especially the nights shields.

My input though would be to invest more into that incubi unit. Even a couple more bodies would make them a serious threat and pretty durable.
For starters consider losing the blaster from the large camper squad and the night shields from the flyer for 1 additional incubi. Its "only" one more model but those 2 upgrades will be hit or miss on their contributions, meanwhile another incubi will always be useful. Now if you could just squeeze one more..

Next do you ever miss a venom blade on the archon? Ive tried the trap, didnt like it but im sure millage varies. However I love the venom blade against fodder units, for bad drug rolls etc. I would prioritize this above the soul trap but maybe others would disagree here, idk. I do feel the VB benefits the incubi more than the trap does though.

Regarding the archon/incubis ride, does nightshields really matter on an assaulty transport or is this just for going second to make sure they dont end up walking? Ive been running up to 3 assault heavy raiders and enhanced aethersails have been amazing. God I love DE assault units. Havent tried night shields on these units yet since they are so close after turn 1 but so far ive found I dont really care if someone shoots their raiders at that point.

Anyway just some thoughts.
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Squierboy
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PostSubject: Re: 1,500 points for Throne of Skulls May   1,500 points for Throne of Skulls May I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 14 2013, 20:36

I agree on NS - I would drop them all (ruthless, I know). I got rid of them and have never looked back. They can be handy, but just don't think they're worth all those points.

A klaivex would be useful in the incubi unit to accept challenges for your archon. Would allow him to avoid getting stuck in a fight with powerfist sergeants and the like.

Splinter cannon on the razorwing is ok - allows you to pour in extra AI fire while retaining the dark lances for tank hunting.
However, I wouldn't take the razorwing in the 1st place. Our aircraft are subpar when compared to necron & guard airpower, and too easily destroyed. Consider that if you do indeed run into lots of tau (and allied tau), they will likely have a lot of AA defence. Your best bet is to run with a 3rd ravager. Perhaps the threat of Tau AA will discourage flyer spam in other armies and alleviate one of our biggest headaches.

I don't like the mix of weapons on the dark lance raider squad - the extra ravager I mentioned would bring 3 DLs on a platform that can move and fire. Either drop the blaster and have the unit sit in cover, or switch the DL for a splinter cannon.

With some extra points from those changes, you could throw in a trueborn venom squad (blasters, DLs or SCs depending on your preference).

All the best with your tournament!

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PostSubject: Re: 1,500 points for Throne of Skulls May   1,500 points for Throne of Skulls May I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 15 2013, 11:35

Red- Aye, ignores cover is a big concern I admit. With my very first list everything had flickerfiels AND nightshields - it was effective, but very expensive Sad - will have to see how things go should I fight a lot of Tau and their ignore cover antics.

Sky Serpent - I forgot to ask, what list did you run when you went?

Brom - you've pretty much hit the nail on the head Smile - the Nightshield for the Incubi raider is a 10 point investment to (hopefully) increase their chances of getting to where they need to be and it deflects against cross-field fire (that last 6'' can be all that seperates me from an enemy heavy weapon squirrled away in their deployment zone). Doesn't always happen, but it really can save the day, at least in my experience. I'd like to try out a Beastmaster unit, but it's so much money! Maybe I'll proxy it after ToS and decide if I like it enough to spend all that cash on one unit Very Happy I've found Wyches suffer a lot in this edition, it's rare more than three survive to combat I've found (but mine are notoriously unlucky - my archon, however, is notoriously jammy Smile ).

Squierboy - thanks for the luck Smile - I've definitely considered a Klaivex to eat challenges, there was one in the list originally actually. Might be something worth considering now that I think about it.

In regards to a third ravager - I'd like one, but funds and painting time won't allow sadly Sad - Ideally I'd like two ravagers and a Void Raven, but until I we get the model I guess that's not happening. The difference between AV11 and 10 is quite significant I've found. I agree that Razorwings probably aren't points efficient, but I've seen so many Double Drake/Cron-Air/Twin-Detta lists that I just feel like I need something that flies. My razorwing has been pretty useful so far, I've played against 4 drake lists and managed to come through each time (save one -where the drakes had Hadescannons Sad ). The Razorwing's helped out a lot. Plus I like the anti-troop missiles.

Completely agree with you about the Raider squad, now that I've had time to reflect. The points from dropping the lance to a splinter cannon and dropped flickerfield would net me a Klaivex, a Venom blade for the Archon and 5pts for either ethersails or Haywires for the archon.

I'm still kind of stuck on the Nighthshields Smile - so used to them I'm not sure I could survive the trauma of losing them Wink

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PostSubject: Re: 1,500 points for Throne of Skulls May   1,500 points for Throne of Skulls May I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 15 2013, 15:19

Keep the night shields then since you cant squeeze a 3rd ravager. Besides plenty of weapons are range < 36" pulse rifles and markerlights included but also ALL crons and nids most GKs etc, not news just felt like listing a few. Sure longer ranged weaponry exists but limiting the majority of an army's reach will IMO be worthwhile on 8 chassis, considering what you could buy for 80 pts and considering your model constraints.

Hmmm, to go with a mix of the suggestions though consider this:

Lose the av10 flyer, it doesn't bring the full power of your army to bear from the start and will go down pretty easily. Also lose the camper squads raider and blaster, and the soul trap.

With these points pick up an ADL with quadgun for the camper squad to man.

Add the 3rd ravager by converting the free'd up raider with a couple dudes hanging off the sides with DL's.

Pick up a venom blade, klaivex and 2 more incubi... 1499.

You lose a reserved unit and mobility for the large squad. In return you net +3 dark light on the board, +4 intercepting quadgun shots, a more durable backfield unit and a more durable and deadly assault element, and you get to keep all the night shields. I know static elements in DE are considered taboo but in this context I think its the stronger option. Anyway just some friendly ideas.

Edit- enhanced aethersails might be preferrable to night shields on the incubis unit. +2d6 would allow you to deploy back/to the side 6" further and still get the same threat range or greater on average while costing 5 pts less. Of course this is more terrain dependent though and I imagine ToS is probably light in this department.
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Squierboy
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PostSubject: Re: 1,500 points for Throne of Skulls May   1,500 points for Throne of Skulls May I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 15 2013, 18:20

Alsarion wrote:
I'd like to try out a Beastmaster unit, but it's so much money!
There are some cheaper options that allow you to avoid the expensive and samey finecast miniatures. My own beast pack (currently in progress) consists of the following proxys:

Beastmasters - Hellions (plastic kit)
Khymerae - Chaos hounds (Warhammer plastic kit. I'm actually using metal ones that I picked up years ago to proxy for the frankly awful old warp beast minis)
Razorwing flocks - lots of options here, but I'm going to use Forgeworld tyranid ripper swarms (not the winged ones). I know they don't have wings, but they look great, they look like a swarm, and they are much cheaper than a lot of other options (you get 3 in a pack).

And if you're interested in creating a Baron Sathonyx conversion, you can't go far wrong by starting with a hellion mini.

Alsarion wrote:
- my archon, however, is notoriously jammy Smile ).
That is good news for you! Mine always seems to fluff his SF save the moment a S6+ gun is pointed in his direction. I've always dreamed of him going on an unstoppable solo rampage through an opponent's lines, but alas...

If you have found your Razorwing doing good things, then go ahead and run it. However, if you go with Brom's ADL suggestion, you could consider picking up a 3-man DL trueborn foot squad to sit behind the ADL along with any foot troops squads - cheapest way to get a pair of DLs into your list.

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