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darthken239
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spellcheck2001
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PostSubject: Beast packs   Beast packs I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 10 2013, 08:18

Greetings evil denizens!

Your advice is sought on the best load out for running a beast pack. I am a new dark eldar player and am slowly building up a dark eldar force (check out my harlequin carnival project log) and am interested in starting to use the beast pack. What is the best combo of beasts/masters to each pack and the benefits to running each type? Also is it worth using baron sathonyx in the pack or run him with some hellions instead? Thanks in advance
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Lay_Ayanesha
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PostSubject: Re: Beast packs   Beast packs I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 10 2013, 09:15

The normal beast pack containts five masters without any upgrades (not worth it), ten khymeras and six razorwings. Sathonyx leads the pack for some reasons:
- Assault grenades
- Hit and Run
- Good CC abilities

It is better to run him with beasts than with hellions.

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sgb69
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PostSubject: Re: Beast packs   Beast packs I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 10 2013, 10:20

Some use a medium-sized pack of 3 Beastmasters, 5 Khymera, and 4 Razorwing Flocks.

The 2 Beastmasters 4 Flocks approach is amazing on the other end of the spectrum. It works out to about 4 points a wound, and tends to draw anti-vehicle fire away from Raiders.

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Sky Serpent
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PostSubject: Re: Beast packs   Beast packs I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 10 2013, 11:33

For the premium experience, invest in Eldrad.

Nothing like an invisible Beast unit that goes to ground and becomes Fearless in the next turn, popping back up.

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Timatron
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PostSubject: Re: Beast packs   Beast packs I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 10 2013, 15:39

I have put up a thread about this but I know you're a boss about this stuff, Sky. I wondered if you had any suggestions for good alternative Razorwing Flock models? I've been looking at some of the other birds that GW do but was looking for something better, any suggestions?

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Drev
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PostSubject: Re: Beast packs   Beast packs I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 10 2013, 18:06

I use the medium sized pack that sgb69 described; the Baron, 3 BM, 4 razorwing flocks, and 5 khymera. I usually play in the 1500-1850 point range so a larger pack will eat into my other units. The only upgrade I give is a single venom blade for a beastmaster if I don't know where else to spend five spare points. The Baron is really almost a requirement and there are several threads here that describe exactly why (grenades, H&R, etc.).

I've only had them on the table for about four games and I like the unit. I am considering going with a larger unit or adding something, Eldrad maybe, to help with their survivability, especially when we play 2000 points. Personally I've gotten little damage output from the unit but that is mainly because they have soaked up almost all of the enemies' shooting. This of course helps my precious paper airplanes stay around longer and generally makes me much more successful. So even though, for me, the beasts haven't taken out a lot of stuff, they really help my other units.

So in short, I like the Baron, 3, 4, 5 unit for 1500 point games. I want to try a larger unit for larger point games.
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sgb69
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PostSubject: Re: Beast packs   Beast packs I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 10 2013, 19:52

The best alternatives I've found so far is Hellions with agonizers instead of the metal beastmaster, Vampire Count Bat Swarms from WH Fantasy, and Vampire Count... whatever those dog things are.

Add in some tentacles and yer golden.

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Irakunar Thrax
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PostSubject: Re: Beast packs   Beast packs I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 10 2013, 19:58

Beastmasters i used hellions. Razorwing flocks, i used vampire counts vargheists.

I like to run 4 masters, 10 khymerae and 4 Razorwings and the baron.
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Timatron
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PostSubject: Re: Beast packs   Beast packs I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 11 2013, 01:14

Are Vargheiests big monster things?
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Niiai
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PostSubject: Re: Beast packs   Beast packs I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 11 2013, 10:24

I also have some vampire count vargeists. They are a love to paint. My Beasts are modefied helions and my khymerae are vampier hounds.

However I feel that my 300 point units, 400 with baron, is not the deathstar I was hoping it should be.
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Mandor
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PostSubject: Re: Beast packs   Beast packs I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 11 2013, 10:32

A friend of mine donated me a couple (read: 36) of Forgeworld Tyranid Rippers with Wings. They make awesome Razorwing Flock.
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Artyle
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PostSubject: Re: Beast packs   Beast packs I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 16 2013, 20:59

I have been running beast packs in every sixth list. I can't imagine playing without them. I run the following:

- Baron
- x 5 Beastmasters (naked) spare points are better spent on grisly trophies on a venom for LD issues
- x 8 Razorwing
- x 5 Khymerae

This setup has an insane amount of wounds for a DE army and most people make it a priority target, so as said before its a wound soak. If it does nothing else I am happy.

Its large enough to surround transports and get kills from emergency disembark (don't forget wrecks are dangerous terrain so make them take the test when they pile in on top of their rhino).

I tend to use it to stall enemy movement onto objectives and as a mobile blockade to push units into my firelanes (units tend to move away from it).

It's killy but don't overestimate it, avoid anything S6 or higher on the birds, if you lose two flocks it puts you at -10 to your leadership check! Put the baron or the khymerae base to base with these attacks. Heavy flamers are the devil.

You can add Vect to up the killy and fearless.Maughan-ra, or Eldrad enhance the squad as well, but all of them slow it down so I tend to avoid them. I am going to experiment with a jetseer trying for invisibility.

I have noticed on this forum that people tend to have more khymerae than razorwings. What is the thought process behind it?

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pantofful
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PostSubject: Re: Beast packs   Beast packs I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 16 2013, 21:27

just a different invulnerable save-to-rending attacks ratio...
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darthken239
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PostSubject: Re: Beast packs   Beast packs I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 18 2013, 12:58

usually run 2 fiends and 4 flocks

the fiends lead the way soaking up shooting and trying to stop instant death on my flocks.

the only reason im not running khymerae is i can't afford to buy them
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Mandor
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PostSubject: Re: Beast packs   Beast packs I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 18 2013, 14:03

@darthken239 wrote:
usually run 2 fiends and 4 flocks

the fiends lead the way soaking up shooting and trying to stop instant death on my flocks.

the only reason im not running khymerae is i can't afford to buy them
They are pretty cheap Wink
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Irakunar Thrax
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PostSubject: Re: Beast packs   Beast packs I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 19 2013, 19:53

I used chaos warhounds for khymerae. It's a great way to save $$$!
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LordSqueak
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PostSubject: Re: Beast packs   Beast packs I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 19 2013, 20:23

I like the Warmaster Carrior Rippers for a cheaper replacement of the razorwing flocks.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat490082a&prodId=prod1130116

Re-base them on Terminator bases and you are good to go.
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Balisong
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PostSubject: Re: Beast packs   Beast packs I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 23 2013, 05:46

I ran a flock of Razorwings against a mono Tzeentch Army tonight and I found that they were worthless vs the dual Lords of Change he was using.

Clawed fiends and Khymera did surprisingly well, and would recommend loading up on either option vs Daemons.

Make sure to bring Malys...
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sgb69
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PostSubject: Re: Beast packs   Beast packs I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 23 2013, 07:19

@Artyle wrote:
I am going to experiment with a jetseer trying for invisibility.

Watch out. Canny opponents will abuse focus fire to pick him out of the mob. I think. I've never really read the focus fire bit, actually.

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Vasara
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PostSubject: Re: Beast packs   Beast packs I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 23 2013, 10:11

@sgb69 wrote:
@Artyle wrote:
I am going to experiment with a jetseer trying for invisibility.

Watch out. Canny opponents will abuse focus fire to pick him out of the mob. I think. I've never really read the focus fire bit, actually.

How are they going to do that? it has almost always 4+ cover from Jink and Stealth. Same as other models.

I used a jetseer (1 divination) in my last game. LD10 is his most valuable benefit to the beastherd?
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Khain mor
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PostSubject: Re: Beast packs   Beast packs I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 26 2013, 22:59

@Irakunar Thrax wrote:
I used chaos warhounds for khymerae. It's a great way to save $$$!
The undead hounds or either the wolfs from the space wolves make very decent Khymerae.

Quote :
I like the Warmaster Carrior Rippers for a cheaper replacement of the razorwing flocks.

find these too big, I wish GW had another source of Raven like birds.

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I use mostly 10 Khymerae and 2 razorwing flocks, the Khymerae are used mostly for their invunerable save, however their do pack a nice cc, combined with the sheer number of attacks of the razorwings and the rending, it's more than enough to take on most infantry.

I will buy more flocks, however I've noticed that even with 2 I've got enough cc power.

So far I've got 12 Khymera, 1 fiend and the 2 flocks. I have used them in one full squad. The squad is close to indestructible with the Khymera, I don't think i'll ever run 5 khymera, I just know that I'll lose some, however I can afford ot lose some of my Khymerae when I got 10 of them;
The Clawed fiend is excellent, I've become a fan of it, after seeing it in battle. You obviously make it lose a couple of it's wounds on purpose, once it has lost a few wounds, it can take on a vehicle on its own. I find the fiend quite useful against vehicles, Most vehicles have a back armor of 10, making it all too easy for the fiend.

I've also used 12 Khymerae sometimes, it also works, I know people that field full Khymerae spam, and it clearly works.

This unit is by far the best FAst Attack choice We've got, if I can afford them, i'll gladly take them. (need enough troops and Heavy support first though)
Scourges are too expensive, reavers too fragile and hellions are not really needed. I find the best use for hellions to serve as polyvalent troops, otherwise I don't see much use in them, I'd rather have more useful units instead.
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