THE DARK CITY
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.



 
HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityRegisterLog in

 

 DE vs. the new Tau

Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
AuthorMessage
Hijallo
In Exile
avatar

Posts : 264
Join date : 2012-06-19

DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: DE vs. the new Tau   DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 07 2013, 15:28

Well, i've played a game against Tau. Btw it was Vassal match, no one of my local game enivorement even plays Tau;

They are not as scary as it appears. Many will favor Riptides with Early Warning Override over Crisis teams, and what does it mean for us? It means - less autocannon-eqs (but, ofc, big blasts can devastate flocks of Razorwings; loadout of 10 Khymeras and 6 Flocks will be better). Disruption pod no more makes vehicle Shrouded, only +1 cover - but their vehicles except tanks are garbage. New Missile Broadsides are good btw, 12 S7 and 12 S5 missiles salvo will be a hard-hitting power, they can take Skyfire aswell - so one less reason to use dark eldar flyers, one more reason to save money.

With all markerlight scaryness, they don't come for free. You'll need Markerlight Drones and their controller, or Pathfinder team, and they both can be destroyed by ether focusing fire or throwing squad of 5 wyches who hardly will find suitable target for Haywire Grenades anyway.

But i love that Tau book and i hope Phil Kelly makes notes and coming Eldar book wouldn't be weaker or less gay (i'm using old meaning of word "gay") than Tau.
Back to top Go down
Barking Agatha
Wych
Barking Agatha

Posts : 834
Join date : 2012-07-02

DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: DE vs. the new Tau   DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 07 2013, 18:01

@exsquared wrote:
...they will likely have as few fire warriors as they can get away with to max out on the suits etc...

I suppose it depends on the local mindset, but I doubt that. Troops with rapid fire weapons are super good. If they also happen to be S5 and 30" range, they're extra super good, and I expect Tau players will notice that too.

_________________
House of the Bitter Laugh, uniting the Kabal of Scorn, the Cult of Disdain, and the Coven of Jaded Atrocities
Back to top Go down
Hijallo
In Exile
avatar

Posts : 264
Join date : 2012-06-19

DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: DE vs. the new Tau   DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 07 2013, 18:06

And overwatch from 36 fire warriors hurts; but if you implement large blasts, they should go into dispersed formation
Back to top Go down
exsquared
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 43
Join date : 2012-05-28

DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: DE vs. the new Tau   DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 07 2013, 18:33

I'm not saying we won't see loads of fire warriors because they are weak offensively, but rather because they don't strike me as being any good at actually sitting on an objective, unless they have one behind a defense line.
They have the tools to get first blood and slay the warlord VPs, and between their guns and easy ignores cover access they can probably keep enemies off of objectives.
Back to top Go down
Barking Agatha
Wych
Barking Agatha

Posts : 834
Join date : 2012-07-02

DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: DE vs. the new Tau   DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 07 2013, 19:02

@Hijallo wrote:
And overwatch from 36 fire warriors hurts; but if you implement large blasts, they should go into dispersed formation

What do you mean?

_________________
House of the Bitter Laugh, uniting the Kabal of Scorn, the Cult of Disdain, and the Coven of Jaded Atrocities
Back to top Go down
DominicJ
Wych
avatar

Posts : 662
Join date : 2013-01-23

DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: DE vs. the new Tau   DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 07 2013, 19:07

Co-operative Overwatch is models within 6", not units. So, if you pack blasts, you force them to disperse, and few models can join in.
Or you annihilate packed units

_________________
The Cult of the bloody disaster
https://www.thedarkcity.net/t7466-cult-of-the-bloody-disaster
Back to top Go down
Sulphunet
Hellion
Sulphunet

Posts : 62
Join date : 2012-03-11

DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: DE vs. the new Tau   DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 07 2013, 19:33

That's true, blast weapons will be really strong against a Tau player that tries to abuse the overwatch rule. Even if you miss your target unit, you will probably hit something.

_________________
Why do we ride atop these elegant craft? The better to hear the screams of our prey as we ride them down, to savour the fear etched on their faces, to taste the tantalising tang of their blood in the air as an appetiser before the feast. But most of all we ride them so that the slaughter may begin as soon as possible.
Back to top Go down
Hijallo
In Exile
avatar

Posts : 264
Join date : 2012-06-19

DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: DE vs. the new Tau   DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 07 2013, 19:48

Expeirenced players probably would never pack FW close (unless thier goal is castle against all-drop army). Overwatch, even in such quantity, isn't really good. Any close combat unit capable of withstanding that kind of punishment probably will turn field of battle into field of slaughter when they get close - and closely packed squads of FW are easy, i mean - really easy pray for everyone. Even without blasts;

Looking forward to Eldar release, according to Hastings, that'll be next 40k codex. Probably there will be option to pump regular Farseer to ML3 and keep him on bike, then we could see interesting things (or may be author would allow Eldar psychic powers being cast on Dark Eldar, but looking at CSM and Daemons...). Markerlights are nearly as awesome as psychic powers, take it.
Back to top Go down
Tony Spectacular
Kabalite Warrior
Tony Spectacular

Posts : 225
Join date : 2012-07-31
Location : Philadelphia

DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: DE vs. the new Tau   DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 07 2013, 21:56

I haven't actually seen the book yet. I know there's tons of Skyfire, but how much Interceptor is there? I feel like Shatterfields will be on beast mode against Tau, especially since they negate all that AP save-not-a-save business.

_________________
Edited for stupidity.
Back to top Go down
inorexia
Hellion
inorexia

Posts : 38
Join date : 2012-12-20

DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: DE vs. the new Tau   DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 08 2013, 01:48

@Hijallo wrote:
(i'm using old meaning of word "gay")

Happy and frolicsome?

_________________
David Bowie... in spaaaaaace
Back to top Go down
Lurking Evil
Slave
Lurking Evil

Posts : 20
Join date : 2011-08-26
Location : Nevermore

DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: DE vs. the new Tau   DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 08 2013, 03:25

The huge amount of S7 is worrying, as well as Markerlights being able to ignore cover. (My poor Reavers and anything jinking) But at least they only last a turn so there shouldn't be too much overwatch shenanigans.

As with anything monstrous creature-y I think poison will give the Tau much grief.

I know a lot of the suits (all the suits?) have that thing that gives them BS2 on overwatch, but has anyone considered the possibility of throwing a Huskblade Archon at a Riptide? He might not even get there and almost definitely wouldn't survive the following round of shooting, but I think that single roll of 6 to wound with instant death would be worth it for the look on the Tau player's face.

And of course, with careful planning, I think that enough of our basic troops can mess Fire Warriors up for us not to worry toooooo much.

_________________
"Ash is our air, darkness our flesh." -Phyrexian Scriptures

Kabal Of The Blighted Path
Back to top Go down
sgb69
Kabalite Warrior
sgb69

Posts : 186
Join date : 2013-03-02
Location : Redwood Curtain

DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: DE vs. the new Tau   DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 08 2013, 06:48

I'm pretty sure that Strength 3 can't wound toughness 7, but I don't have the book on hand.

Doable with Furious Charge or the right drug roll though.

_________________
Time for the grateful DEldar.
Back to top Go down
Nomic
Wych
Nomic

Posts : 559
Join date : 2011-05-27
Location : Finland

DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: DE vs. the new Tau   DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 08 2013, 06:58

As far as I can seen, the wording on the supporting fire is such that all models that are in a unit that is within 6'' of the charged unit and have the special rule can fire. It's worded a bit weirdly but that is probably because a) the unit may contain models without the rule (say, an allied character), and b) some Tau models have split fire so a single unit may fire at more than on charging unit (say, the Firewarriors firing at one unit and a character with split fire firing at another).

_________________
Tougher than wet kittens, with armour stonger than the dampest cardboard, we are coming for you!
Kabal of Drowned Hope/Cult of the Fatal Kiss/Dark Labyrinth Coven.
Back to top Go down
Mushkilla
Arena Champion
Mushkilla

Posts : 4017
Join date : 2012-07-16
Location : Toroid Arena

DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: DE vs. the new Tau   DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 08 2013, 09:44

Got a game against Tau today. His list is somewhat surprising, but he has a lot of experience with Tau so I expect it to be effective.

HQ
Fire Blade, marker drone

ELITES
3 Stealth Suits, Burst Cannon, advanced targeting
2 Stealth Suit, Fusion blasters, target lock
1 Shas'vre, Burst Cannon, Markerlight & Target Lock, advanced targeting, marker drone

3 Stealth Suits, Burst Cannon, advanced targeting
2 Stealth Suit, Fusion blasters, target lock
1 Shas'vre, Burst Cannon, Markerlight & Target Lock, advanced targeting, marker drone


TROOPS
12 Firewarriors
10 Kroot, precision ammo
3 Krootox
1 Kroot hound
10 Kroot, precision ammo
3 Krootox
1 Kroot hound
10 Kroot, precision ammo
3 Krootox
1 Kroot hound

FAST ATTACK
5 Marker drones
5 Marker drones

HEAVY
Hammer Head, Rail Gun, sub-munition twin linked smart missiles, disruption pod
Hammer Head, Rail Gun, sub-munition twin linked smart missiles, disruption pod

1500pts

I will post a report as soon as I can. Should be am interesting game, lots of markerlights spread out so it will be hard to get rid of all of them. And kroot are evil, stealth in forest (going to ground in forests for 2+ cover saves), the choice between regular rounds and 24" sniper rounds (heavy 1), infiltrate, and three auto cannons per squad (krootox) is going to make them a nightmare. If I played tau they would be my go too troops! Miles better than fire warriors. marker drone squadrons seem better than pahtfinders, T4, 4+ save, relentless and jump shoot jump will make them a lot more mobile and survivable (jump shoot jump behind a hammer head all day?), the only down side is they are BS2.

_________________
Latest Report: BR4: The Repugnant Ramblers Vs Imperial Knights - 1250pts
Pragmatic Realspace Raider Series


“Even the Black Buzzards thought highly of him, and those maniacs were renowned for hating everyone.” - Tantalus, by Braden Campbell
Back to top Go down
mug7703
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 409
Join date : 2012-09-19
Location : Brighton

DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: DE vs. the new Tau   DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 08 2013, 09:54

@Sulphunet wrote:
That's true, blast weapons will be really strong against a Tau player that tries to abuse the overwatch rule. Even if you miss your target unit, you will probably hit something.

Is it worth taking an Fire Prism with one's Eldar Detachment so that they're forced to consider its threat in deployment and spread out? They're only the cost of a Ravager after all.
Back to top Go down
http://www.trevelyanharper.co.uk
Mushkilla
Arena Champion
Mushkilla

Posts : 4017
Join date : 2012-07-16
Location : Toroid Arena

DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: DE vs. the new Tau   DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 08 2013, 10:11

Take a nightspinner instead, it will cause them more problems and it's easier to keep safe (barrage), more accurate (twinlinked), and can snipe fireblades, ethereals and sniper drone team spotters (S6 barrage).

_________________
Latest Report: BR4: The Repugnant Ramblers Vs Imperial Knights - 1250pts
Pragmatic Realspace Raider Series


“Even the Black Buzzards thought highly of him, and those maniacs were renowned for hating everyone.” - Tantalus, by Braden Campbell
Back to top Go down
Hijallo
In Exile
avatar

Posts : 264
Join date : 2012-06-19

DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: DE vs. the new Tau   DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 08 2013, 10:45

^ second this

I mean, Nightspinner.
Back to top Go down
mug7703
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 409
Join date : 2012-09-19
Location : Brighton

DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: DE vs. the new Tau   DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 08 2013, 11:38

@Mushkilla wrote:
Take a nightspinner instead, it will cause them more problems and it's easier to keep safe (barrage), more accurate (twinlinked), and can snipe fireblades, ethereals and sniper drone team spotters (S6 barrage).

Yes I've heard they're good but a lot of my local gamers don't use FW stuff so I think there is something a little taboo about it. Outside Forgeworld things what would be good to take?
Back to top Go down
http://www.trevelyanharper.co.uk
Kinnay
Wych
Kinnay

Posts : 626
Join date : 2011-06-06
Location : Hamburg, Germany

DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: DE vs. the new Tau   DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 08 2013, 13:11

As far as I know. The Nightspinner has been officially integrated into the Eldar Codex. You can - and should - use it whenever you want.

_________________
Visit my project log [last update: February 10th]:
The Ebon Fire
Back to top Go down
mug7703
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 409
Join date : 2012-09-19
Location : Brighton

DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: DE vs. the new Tau   DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 08 2013, 13:28

@Kinnay wrote:
As far as I know. The Nightspinner has been officially integrated into the Eldar Codex. You can - and should - use it whenever you want.

Oh yea, so it has. I've never seen anyone use those, only talk about them leading me to believe they're FW. Are they quite a lot better than Fire Prisms then?
Back to top Go down
http://www.trevelyanharper.co.uk
Mushkilla
Arena Champion
Mushkilla

Posts : 4017
Join date : 2012-07-16
Location : Toroid Arena

DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: DE vs. the new Tau   DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 08 2013, 14:00

S6 large blast, barrage, re-rolls to hit, rending, pinning and forces dangerous and difficult terrain on units that are hit when they next try to move. It's a really good barrage sniper, and can slow down large infantry blobs and deathstars. Not too bad against chimeras as barrage weapons always hit side arnour and you can normally hit at two chimera's if they are too close to each other with one large blast, thought it's main roll is anti-infantry.

EDIT: Had the game against the new Tau codex if anyone is interested (pictures as usual):

BR21: The Black Buzzards VS New Tau - 1500pts

_________________
Latest Report: BR4: The Repugnant Ramblers Vs Imperial Knights - 1250pts
Pragmatic Realspace Raider Series


“Even the Black Buzzards thought highly of him, and those maniacs were renowned for hating everyone.” - Tantalus, by Braden Campbell
Back to top Go down
Hijallo
In Exile
avatar

Posts : 264
Join date : 2012-06-19

DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: DE vs. the new Tau   DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 08 2013, 17:36

Lol'ed pretty hard.

Board was Tau'ish as frak. Just big open field with small fields of cover, which can be devastated by MarkerLighted Railhead. If i read correct, that's what happened.

My expierence was far more sucessful, but that Tau didn't introduced many Kroot Autocannons. And i found that units of 10 dark eldar aren't really more survivable then units of 5. Probably more units of 5 (and NS'ed Venoms) are way to go. (Markerlight is only 30", and NS affects it. Being in 24" from dark eldar don't contribute tau survivability - they're as fragile as we are

Back to top Go down
Mushkilla
Arena Champion
Mushkilla

Posts : 4017
Join date : 2012-07-16
Location : Toroid Arena

DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: DE vs. the new Tau   DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 08 2013, 17:44

I'm pretty sure Markerlights are 36" range. The board was loaded with cover, you would get a lot less in a tournament at least from what I have seen, hell it even had a massive LoS blocking tower in the middle!

The Kroot are the key to Tau. It's a whole different game with them.

Cheap infiltrating troops that can put pressure on your opponents objective, get a 4+ cover save in forests (2+ when they go to ground), have three move shoot auto cannons, the choice between regular and sniper ammo depending on the situation (making them rend and wound on 4+ when they need too), and best of all they benefit from marker lights. They can put a tone of early pressure on and those six S7 shots will always be hitting what they want to hit thanks to infiltrate and being able to move and shoot. With the 2+ cover save when going to ground it will be hard to shift them off objectives.

Kroot just seem miles better than fire warriors, and really help tau with the objective game and can secure the midfield really well.

As for venoms I don't think it would have changed much. The tau took out four vehicles on the first turn, with the stealth suits firing their burst cannons at the warriors and one of the hammer heads firing at the warriors. If I had been running venoms, there would not have been two blobs of warriors to target on foot, so the stealth teams would have been able to split fire on the venoms, 16 S5 hits should take out a venom, so that would have been six to seven dead vehicles on the first turn instead of four.

The real power of that list is being able to infiltrate within 18" with your mobile auto cannons, burst cannons and fusion blasters. The infiltration takes away the advantage of going second.

_________________
Latest Report: BR4: The Repugnant Ramblers Vs Imperial Knights - 1250pts
Pragmatic Realspace Raider Series


“Even the Black Buzzards thought highly of him, and those maniacs were renowned for hating everyone.” - Tantalus, by Braden Campbell
Back to top Go down
Hijallo
In Exile
avatar

Posts : 264
Join date : 2012-06-19

DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: DE vs. the new Tau   DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 08 2013, 18:52

Ah, sorry, that's something wrong with my memory, Markerlights are indeed 36".

Nightshield should help us. Burst cannon is 18", infiltration is "no closer then 18"" or something similar. Key point they need to roll diff terrain really good, or their fusion blasters and burst cannons are out of range. But having loads of nightshields on many venoms can be really expensive. This also helps against missile pods, they're only 36" and with nightshield it's not that hard to outrange them.

Kroot gunz are evil, i'm really surprised why so many tau players overlooked it.

Back to top Go down
KnightSeerValkia
Kabalite Warrior
KnightSeerValkia

Posts : 223
Join date : 2011-08-24
Location : Liverpool, England

DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: DE vs. the new Tau   DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 08 2013, 18:55

The reason the Krootox wasn't taken under the old book was because the Krootox removed Infiltrate from the unit and they had no armour with Toughness 3.

_________________
Commorragh makes lots of little glass vials~
And the little glass vials go into the blast pistols like a battery~
And the blast pistols get pointed somewhere against your anatomy~
And when the pistol goes off it sparks and you're ready for surgery..Surgery~

@Cavash wrote:
I wouldn't send anybody to kill you, I'm not that sort of DEldar... if I wanted you dead I'd do it myself! Very Happy 


DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 Hiddenlibrary2nd-1
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: DE vs. the new Tau   DE vs. the new Tau - Page 3 I_icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
DE vs. the new Tau
Back to top 
Page 3 of 7Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

COMMORRAGH TACTICA

 :: Drukhari Tactics
-
Jump to: