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Narshaada
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PostSubject: De vs orks   De vs orks I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 02 2013, 01:47

Guys I'''m new to de and I have really big problem with ghazkhull. He always appears in our 1000+ Pts games and I really don't know how to take him out. Was thinking about hex rifle but it has terribly small chance to wound him even in numbers. Any ideas?
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: De vs orks   De vs orks I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 02 2013, 02:16

Poison or lances. Either works! Hit the unit he is with, with a wave of poison (1w models) or lances (2w models) and keep hitting them until they are all dead. Even 30 boyz will die over a couple of turns to 4-6 venoms.

Treat ghaz like a unit of terminators and you will be fine

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sgb69
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PostSubject: Re: De vs orks   De vs orks I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 02 2013, 04:36

Well, does he have eternal warrior? If not, we've got a bunch of answers in things like the Shattershard, Implosion Missiles, and Huskblade.

If he does, then you're looking at either shooting him up or running away from him. He's a solid quarter of your opponent's army near 1000 points. And he's really, really slow.

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Archon Farath Mure
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PostSubject: Re: De vs orks   De vs orks I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 02 2013, 06:34

Kill the unit he's with, and then torrent him down with splinter weapons or lances, whatever is free to shoot at him. He's slow enough to avoid outright, though.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: De vs orks   De vs orks I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 02 2013, 09:30

Darklight is probably your best bet. Wounding on a 2+ and with a 5++ save it doesn't take that long to kill him. Of course, it depends how your opponent normally plays him. Big unit of Nobz in a Battlewagon?

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DominicJ
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PostSubject: Re: De vs orks   De vs orks I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 02 2013, 09:40

Yep, kill the unit first.
If its in eavy armour or mega armour, lances/dizzies, otherwise, hit them with everything you have Smile

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: De vs orks   De vs orks I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 02 2013, 09:51

Just worked out that it would take 6 dual-cannon Venoms firing everything at a lone Ghazgkull to kill him in one turn Very Happy

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Narshaada
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PostSubject: Re: De vs orks   De vs orks I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 02 2013, 10:43

Thank you for the ideas. And yes ghazkhull have vagon with him. His unit can be killed with either desintegrators if it is meganobz or poison weapons if it is boyz. But he's in a vagon and this thing is just driving around shooting and assaulting everything that comes within range. So if I want to take it out I have to throw nearly all my army at it. btw I'm trying to play not venom spam
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: De vs orks   De vs orks I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 02 2013, 10:51

@Narshaada wrote:
Thank you for the ideas. And yes ghazkhull have vagon with him. His unit can be killed with either desintegrators if it is meganobz or poison weapons if it is boyz. But he's in a vagon and this thing is just driving around shooting and assaulting everything that comes within range. So if I want to take it out I have to throw nearly all my army at it. btw I'm trying to play not venom spam

If he's in a wagon then Wyches are your friends. Haywire grenades will wreck pretty much any vehicle very quickly, leaving the rest of your army to deal with the unit that was inside it.

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Darkgreen Pirate
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PostSubject: Re: De vs orks   De vs orks I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 02 2013, 10:53

ghazzy is a beast. Making his 2+ an invul for both halves of a turn is nasty too. And yes, he is immune to instant death PLUS with T5 he will get FnP from that dok in the nob squad against everything we can throw at him. I once had 1000 points of imperial guard plus 500 points of necrons ( doubles match, loads of fun) shoot at Ghazgull and his Nobs. He lived.

As others have said though, shoot the pants off him, or kite him around the board, or both! If hes in a trukk or wagon it should be a mid priority though- Lootas hurt us way more than that nob squad will. He is an Assault HQ, meaning he needs to be on you as soon as possible and at most he will chew through two (maybe three) squads if you get cornered. ( moves turn one, disembarks close to you to assault turn two, wins/consolidates hits something close or embarks back into transport and repeat; two squads killed typically) remember the rule change regarding disembarking and assaulting hurt open topped orks too!

I agree with the count, a wych squad (sacrificial or not) may be your friend. Stranding a mega nob mid table is not a bad thing!

Treat him like any other deathstar; avoid it and rain poison on him from 35 inches away and you should be fine.

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Hijallo
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PostSubject: Re: De vs orks   De vs orks I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 07 2013, 18:03

Kill the wagon, outmaneveur the unit. When you have nothing to worry about, unleash a torrent of fire.

Effectively at a moment you destroyed his transport, you crippled his army. That's why foot non-shooting deathstars do not work. (well, Paladins worked in 5ed, but they're shooty versatile deathstar which also have a habit to suffer losses at the moment darklight weapons are employed).
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: De vs orks   De vs orks I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 07 2013, 20:58

Ghaz actually works fine after losing his wagon, as long as the player using him played the wagon right. The only time you 'cripple' Ghaz by killing his wagon is if the other player is playing him poorly, or you killed the wagon on Turn 1 before the Orks got a chance to move. It's not like Ghaz is actually really all that slow.

I do agree with the posters talking about shooting him to death. DE used to be able to out assault Ghaz but we don't really have that as too optimal of a plan anymore. Still, torrent of fire is a solid tool, and certain of our assault units could certainly handle a weakened Nob Mob or diminished Boy horde even with Ghaz in the mix.

At 1,000 points and in a wagon, Ghaz is already pretty close to half your opponent's army, so it shouldn't be hard to find the time to focus fire on him.

My next question is - what is your army? My suspicion is you lack much functional shooting and are therefore trying to beat Ghaz in short range shooting or assault, where he excels - he is weak at long range, and so that's where you want to keep him. Lances, splinter cannons, dissies, they can all whittle him down and do so at a range he can't properly krump them - that's why the best strategy when playing as Ghaz is to cram yourself into the heart of the opponent's army, consequently the best way to defeat Ghaz is to prevent that. Avoid the odd 12-15" threat bubble he has, and keep shooting.

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Hijallo
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PostSubject: Re: De vs orks   De vs orks I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 07 2013, 21:25

Ghaz's vagon wrecked in the centre of table. Perfect. He might assault IG or Tau gunline formation, but how could he ever close on the mobile fast skimmer force? those for whom 12" movement isn't enough could simply flat out.

Ofcourse, some transports might be already blown up, but, hey, their passengers wouldn't last long anyway, and charging them with Ghaz's deathstar is wa-a-a-y too overkill. There are more effective ways to waste points.

TL;DR: don't see a problem here, i'd care more about large amount of shooty orkz, they are the real threat, not expensive CC characters on foot.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: De vs orks   De vs orks I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 07 2013, 22:31

@Hijallo wrote:
Ghaz's vagon wrecked in the centre of table. Perfect. He might assault IG or Tau gunline formation, but how could he ever close on the mobile fast skimmer force? those for whom 12" movement isn't enough could simply flat out.
Depends where your army is and what your needs are - there are a number of missions that would obligate you to deal with him in some manner. He's certainly not so scary that we just need to dodge and avoid him.

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Hijallo
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PostSubject: Re: De vs orks   De vs orks I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 08 2013, 20:01

Well, i used to inflict cruel torment on GK players, destroying Paladin squads in close combat. It's indeed a pleasure to take down enemy deathstar on their field. For such a mission, i'd recommend a Khymera-heavy maxed Beasts squad (but one need atleast 1500 pts to run that and not cripple the core of one's army).

and alot of splinter fire before attack, of course. probably some Darklight.
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Timatron
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PostSubject: Re: De vs orks   De vs orks I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 09 2013, 02:18

Shattershard, hexrifles and anything else that says "removed from play with no saves of any kind" is not the same as the Instant Death special rule. Anyone who has Eternal warrior or "Immune to instant death" will die from, for example, a hexrifle shot that rends followed by a failed wounds characteristic test. I did exactly that to a chaos lord earlier and there isn't a character in the game who can get round that one. Removed from play is very clear, no coming back for necrons, nothing. Get him in a shattershard and same thing. Each individual model takes their own toughness test, if he fails, he's gone, eternal warrior means nothing at that point.
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Narshaada
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PostSubject: Re: De vs orks   De vs orks I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 09 2013, 14:41

@Timatron wrote:
Shattershard, hexrifles and anything else that says "removed from play with no saves of any kind" is not the same as the Instant Death special rule.

But hexrifles is pretty useless. Because we need succesful roll to hit then to wound then the target rolls armor save or invul if we got 6 and then wounds test. Chance of succes is really poor. Shattershard isnt good against deathstars aswell. Its only 1 per army and units like Ghaz Abba Meph have high T
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