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 Cover saves agaisnt imotekh's lord of the storm.

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Massaen
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Crazy_Ivan
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PostSubject: Cover saves agaisnt imotekh's lord of the storm.   Cover saves agaisnt imotekh's lord of the storm. I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 30 2013, 22:43

Do we get our jink saves against imotekh's lightning attacks, also as its night fighting would we get the bonus's for being over 24" away from the storm lord?

Will be playing necrons tomorrow and I know my friend will be taking imotekh, just want to be sure i have my facts straight before I start trying to 3+ saves.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Cover saves agaisnt imotekh's lord of the storm.   Cover saves agaisnt imotekh's lord of the storm. I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 30 2013, 23:11

Despite taking place in the shooting phase, the lightning is not actually a shooting attack so no cover saves. With regard to night fighting, from the FAQ:

Q: Do units hit by lightning as a result of Imotekh’s Lord of the Storm special rule benefit from the Stealth or Shrouded special rules due to Night Fighting? (p55).
A: No.

Imotkh doesn't even need to be on the table to use his ability so I suspect distance is irrelevant.

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Cover saves agaisnt imotekh's lord of the storm. YhBv3Wk
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Crazy_Ivan
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PostSubject: Re: Cover saves agaisnt imotekh's lord of the storm.   Cover saves agaisnt imotekh's lord of the storm. I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 30 2013, 23:15

It does not say the lightning ignores cover in the necron codex, I've just checked.

Not getting the shrouded bonus for it being night fighting does make sense though as it does come from the sky.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Cover saves agaisnt imotekh's lord of the storm.   Cover saves agaisnt imotekh's lord of the storm. I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 30 2013, 23:58

@Crazy_Ivan wrote:
It does not say the lightning ignores cover in the necron codex, I've just checked.

No it doesn't, but it also doesn't say it's a shooting attack and cover saves apply to shooting attacks. Also, you determine cover saves by the position of the target relative to the shooting model.

Quote :
If, when you come to allocate a Wound, the target model's body (as defined on page Cool is at least 25% obscured from the point of view of at least one firer, Wounds allocated to that model recelve a cover save.

As I mentioned above, Imotekh doesn't even need to be on the table to use his ability so there is no way to determine your cover save.

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Cover saves agaisnt imotekh's lord of the storm.   Cover saves agaisnt imotekh's lord of the storm. I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 31 2013, 03:47

Actually, cover saves from jink don't require direction...

Also, the lighting hits in the shooting phase, has a strength, AP and so I can't see why jink would not be allowed

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PostSubject: Re: Cover saves agaisnt imotekh's lord of the storm.   Cover saves agaisnt imotekh's lord of the storm. I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 31 2013, 08:13

Ive seen both arguments (both Adhemar and Massaen have touched on it) Personally it comes down to your gaming community. I would sit down and ask how everyone thinks it should be played. As of right now my own gives people jink saves, but as Adhemar pointed out, no stealth or shrouding. The reason being is due to jink's wording of just "if you move, you get a flat save". But again I would talk to your community.

and before anyone points out... this is almost the same arugement about flickerfields not being able to use them due to only getting invuls against wounds...

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RabbitMaster
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PostSubject: Re: Cover saves agaisnt imotekh's lord of the storm.   Cover saves agaisnt imotekh's lord of the storm. I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 02 2013, 10:56

Cover saves does not only applies to shooting attacks.

For example, when a vehicle explodes nearby models may be wounded, and they can use cover saves if they have one.
Of course "directed" cover saves does not work as it is not a shooting attack, but if you have "passive" cover saves like jink, area terrain, kustom force field or whatever, you can use this cover save.

It's pretty much the same with Imothek's lightnings.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Cover saves agaisnt imotekh's lord of the storm.   Cover saves agaisnt imotekh's lord of the storm. I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 02 2013, 11:28

Looking into this a little more, the default position set out in the basic rules is that cover applies to shooting attacks (where applicable) and not to close combat attacks. As it is a permissive rules system, in any other situation you would need to have a rule that explicitly states that you do get a cover save in order for one to apply. So a rule such as Jink which says you get a cover save if you moved would still work. Bizarrely, this also means that Stealth and Shrouded should also work but that has been overruled by the FAQ.

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PostSubject: Re: Cover saves agaisnt imotekh's lord of the storm.   Cover saves agaisnt imotekh's lord of the storm. I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 02 2013, 12:03

Well the FaQ only says that the stealth/shrouded given by night fight does not work on those lightnings.

But on what does the night fight rule apply ? On Shooting attacks (on the targeting step of the shooting attacks to be more precise) ! And as you said before, the lightnings are not shooting attacks, so it's logical that stealth/shrouded given by night fight does not apply.

However if you have stealth/shrouded from other sources (e.g. a nurgle daemon), then it apply.
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baster
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PostSubject: Re: Cover saves agaisnt imotekh's lord of the storm.   Cover saves agaisnt imotekh's lord of the storm. I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 03 2013, 09:06

i base this around what else could get hit instead, so by example.... if your in the open and 35 inches away in night fighting against shooting you get the cover save cos its difficult to see you at that range. imoteks lighting dont need to see you thus no save. if your in area terrain(lets say a wood) against shooting you get your cover save, against template you dont, (flames or whatever) as it just flows and fills an area, against imoteks lighting you do as it could hit that tree instead,

although crons out their could say..... mumma always said don't stand under trees in a storm. goota love the fluff
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Zanais
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PostSubject: Re: Cover saves agaisnt imotekh's lord of the storm.   Cover saves agaisnt imotekh's lord of the storm. I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 03 2013, 09:30

Hm, does Imotekh have to have LoS to target unit hit by lightning to allocate wounds to it?

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Cover saves agaisnt imotekh's lord of the storm.   Cover saves agaisnt imotekh's lord of the storm. I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 03 2013, 09:33

@Zanais wrote:
Hm, does Imotekh have to have LoS to target unit hit by lightning to allocate wounds to it?

Nope. He doesn't even have to be on the table.

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