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Plastikente
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PostSubject: Re: mandrakes   mandrakes - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 05 2013, 17:12

Very same page! My selective blindness strikes again. Thanks.

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sgb69
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PostSubject: Re: mandrakes   mandrakes - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 05 2013, 19:08

And there's the whole bastions grant 3+ cover thing, which is nifty.

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Creeping Darkness
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PostSubject: Re: mandrakes   mandrakes - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 06 2013, 00:57

Thanks for the refs Tiri Rana. Also from p 121:

"If a fortification is deployed within 12" of the central line, only friendly units that have the Infiltrate or Scouts special rule can (re)deploy within the building, regardless of the proximity of enemy units."

Although clunky, I take the last bit to mean you can't be 'infiltrate blocked' by guys turning up too close.

(Sorry for the non-quote, forget how to do it on my phone)

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kingc1313
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: mandrakes   mandrakes - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 08 2013, 00:14

that rally makes me think the a bastion or ADL would be a great addition to my lists combined with the mandrakes

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: mandrakes   mandrakes - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 13 2013, 22:55

I've only just started Dark Eldar, so sorry if this is a silly idea.

But, I was just wondering about the viability of Infiltrating a Mandrake unit and a Haemonculus.

The Haemonculus gives the Mandrake unit a Pain Token, which gives them decent survivability (5+/5+ save), and the ability to use their Baleblast right from the start. He could also bring a liquifier gun, and can always detach if they need to fleet.

Basically, I just wondered if infiltrating S4 Ap4 shooting could be useful - perhaps for taking out Tau Firewarriors or the like?
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Crazy_Ivan
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PostSubject: Re: mandrakes   mandrakes - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 13 2013, 23:11

Unfortunately you can't infiltrate if a haeme joins the squad
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Erebus
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PostSubject: Re: mandrakes   mandrakes - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 13 2013, 23:14

Can't be done:

"An Independent Character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment."

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Orthien
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PostSubject: Re: mandrakes   mandrakes - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 13 2013, 23:16

Ivan beat me too it.

Basically not all special rules will transfer to an IC that joins the unit. So while you can do this and Outflank you can't Infiltrate.

This is the reason why you need to have a dedicated Haemy delivery on Raider/Venom for Mandrakes if your using them which for most if to much of a gamble and point sink.

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sgb69
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PostSubject: Re: mandrakes   mandrakes - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 14 2013, 01:10

@Crazy_Ivan wrote:
Unfortunately you can't infiltrate if a haeme joins the squad

But you can make a case for being able to outflank with a Haemy.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: mandrakes   mandrakes - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 14 2013, 12:50

@Erebus wrote:
Can't be done:

"An Independent Character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment."

Ah, that's annoying.

I just read the infiltrate rule, which said "As long as one model in the squad has the infiltrate rule..."

Well, there goes that idea...
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csjarrat
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PostSubject: Re: mandrakes   mandrakes - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 16 2013, 09:10

Well mandrakes only become good when combined with pain tokens.
How do we get pain tokens? Haemy, as discussed cant infiltrate, so how about combining them wi th a cronos? Those things spit out pain tokens like nobodies business.
I can see mandrakes being ok as part of the foot wing of a wwp list supported by talos and cronos
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that 9uy
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PostSubject: Re: mandrakes   mandrakes - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed May 01 2013, 06:30

I'm one of those people who tried really hard to make them good. It just doesn't work. Best I ever figured out was as that little push to make sure you win combat. Thing is it only works if EVERYTHING is in combat and can't shoot them, which is never.
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Balisong
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PostSubject: Re: mandrakes   mandrakes - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed May 01 2013, 07:05

Maybe bring them out of a Webway portal from the Haemie?
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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: mandrakes   mandrakes - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri May 03 2013, 03:34

So... a curious question on use of Mandrakes.. they look cool and I own a squad, so I'm bound and determined to make them do *something*...

I understand they are expensive for what they do, but if taken in the right list how would the following work? Take them as a distraction force that can target small heavy support squads, such as long fangs or reapers.

IF they outflank at full size, they can easily get to the back edge and probably get into a ruin or forest. If so, with stealth they should be relatively hard to take out without sustained fire. Also, with them in the back deployment area, they can get to an objective or take out small squads, so your opponent will probably need to dedicate at least some fire power against them.
If the enemy shoots at them, they aren't shooting at other squishy units. If they don't shoot at them, he Mandrakes can still mess up an objective or harass a small unit. It seems like a win win. As long as you don't look at the point cost effectiveness..

Has anyone tried that approach? Has it worked? If you were going to do so, what other units would you bring as a complement? I've had so-so success, but my win/loss in 6th is pitiful... I haven't had the time to get enough games and rebuild for the new rules. Apparently my webway assault army isn't as effective as it used to be...
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that 9uy
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PostSubject: Re: mandrakes   mandrakes - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri May 03 2013, 04:10

The fact is I'm pretty sure that the long fangs would beat them. Its not like they are infiltrating incubi or anything.
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: mandrakes   mandrakes - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri May 03 2013, 06:37

Thing is - they probably wont survive long to do anything during the initial turns.

I havent tried them, i admit, but if you are absolutely determined and already have the models i think you should place them in Outflank and go for Linebreaker point and threaten damaged squads. They will be much more survivable if they will be already near battered enemy and just serve as a disctraction, the type of distraction "oh hell, now what?". If they draw fire from important things thats already there and claim that line breaker they have probably served well.

They are actually not that expensive, they dont have to pay for transport.

The rest of your army has to have both solid shooting and melee component.


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sgb69
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PostSubject: Re: mandrakes   mandrakes - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri May 03 2013, 09:37

I once had a charging squad of 3 Beastmasters, 4 Razorwing flocks, and 5 Khymera get beaten in combat and sweeping advanced by Longfangs.

The trick I've found for keeping Mandrakes alive and up front during the initial turns is to not place them too aggressively. Mandrakes are good at taking down wounded squads or glancing vehicles to death. Definitely more of a follow up or finisher unit than an early attacking unit. And for the love of vect, don't deploy them anywhere near flamers.

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kingc1313
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PostSubject: Re: mandrakes   mandrakes - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat May 04 2013, 02:04

i think that may be one of my biggest problems when i use mandrakes i'm too aggressive with them trying to get the pain token early without hemy. I think i am goin to try running a cronos and maybe that will help also try not to be so aggressive.

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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: mandrakes   mandrakes - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat May 04 2013, 02:11

So long fangs are out... :-)

Sounds like a late game unit may be an ok role for them. Definitely one of my favorite units, but not sure they'll be that great.
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Tengu
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PostSubject: Re: mandrakes   mandrakes - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu May 30 2013, 10:35

And it would be in character; they are predators, they tackle the weak and wounded.
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kingc1313
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PostSubject: Re: mandrakes   mandrakes - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri May 31 2013, 06:51

ya its perfect for them coming out of the shadows than fading away just as fast as they came

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bazdakka
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PostSubject: Re: mandrakes   mandrakes - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 03 2013, 13:25

For me Mandrakes are too situational. The only time I played them the terrain only allowed me to place them on my side of the table - fat use Infiltrate then.

Something begs a question is that can they be held in reserve and then infiltrate?
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: mandrakes   mandrakes - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 03 2013, 13:40

No, if they're infiltrating they have to be deployed, but infiltrate does confer outflank, so they can come on from a different table edge if they're kept in reserve. problem there is they can't assault in the turn they come on.

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bazdakka
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PostSubject: Re: mandrakes   mandrakes - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 03 2013, 13:45

Back to the rulebook because I don't remember seeing that. They have fleet so I would have thought that they could - confused am I. :S
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bazdakka
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PostSubject: Re: mandrakes   mandrakes - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 05 2013, 13:10

My bad. When reading a rule it makes sense to read ALL of it. If I had I probably held them in reserve for some outflanking mayhem later in the game.
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