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 A question on Wych weapons

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Panic_Puppet
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PostSubject: A question on Wych weapons   A question on Wych weapons I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 20 2013, 04:19

So im curious what the general consensus is on the wych weapons and which are worth it and which are not? Im sure this has been talked about in spades some where so if some one would like to link a topic that covers this i would appreciate it!

I ask because i have a lovely squad of blood vestals from raging heroes and am not sure how to fit the squad out. I doubt ill ever be able to reall afford another set so they need to be what they will be.

I'll also ask about the Sgt upgrade weapons ( agoniser, venom blade, etc...) I know tahts been discussed a bit too so a link if that will suffice.

I tried searching the forums but there is SOO much info here its hard to find what im looking for.
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Zaakath
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PostSubject: Re: A question on Wych weapons   A question on Wych weapons I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 20 2013, 05:05

I like the Hydra Gauntlets, but I think a general consensus is that the Razor Flails are the way to go.

As for the Hekatrix, I've modelled mine with whips, which can really be either venom blades (as I use them now) or Agonizers.

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Soundslave
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PostSubject: Re: A question on Wych weapons   A question on Wych weapons I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 20 2013, 05:08

As a new 40K player, and new to these forums I highly recomend Plastikentes Dark Eldar Unit Guide.
You can find info about the weapons for Wyches if you scroll down to post 2.

https://www.thedarkcity.net/t4935-plastikente-s-dark-eldar-unit-guide-the-final-cut

I would recomend reading everything he has written though Wink

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PostSubject: Re: A question on Wych weapons   A question on Wych weapons I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 20 2013, 05:10

Personally I would only run shardnets and even then only in blood brides...

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PostSubject: Re: A question on Wych weapons   A question on Wych weapons I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 20 2013, 07:05

Soundslave thank you for pointing me to that set of posts, GIGANTIC help! and thank you Zaakath and Massaen for the input.

I think hydra gauntlets are quite a bit of fun but i can see where their random nature is a bit of a hindrance( in competitive play anyhow) but i do love some randomness at times...watching a deamon on deamon game is quite interesting for that reason lol
As to using the whip as a venom blade, i'm sure my friends wouldnt mind, but i get a bit iffy about not having my stuff modeled correctly...but i do so love converting...

And shardnets seem great but a bit hard to use/position correctly to get use out of in alot of circumstances...Blood brides may be a good place for them as you could get three in a squad.
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PostSubject: Re: A question on Wych weapons   A question on Wych weapons I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 20 2013, 07:23

The razor flails are a no for me, I can get half that effect from drugs Smile
I tend to go naked

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: A question on Wych weapons   A question on Wych weapons I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 20 2013, 08:20

They dont really worth it, especially when you building them to fight battle of attrition, due 6th edition rule of removing closest models in cc. You can control it somewhat, but still. That makes shardnet especially nerfed.

If you are building 5-wych squad in venom for haywiring that might be somewhat decent addition to bump CC, if you dont want to spend on Hekatrix. But probably it is better just to spend points elsewhere.

As for choice - thats up to modelling preferences, i think Hydra Gauntlets and Razorflails have more or less same output. Slightly more killy.
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PostSubject: Re: A question on Wych weapons   A question on Wych weapons I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 20 2013, 13:43

Those models are so sweet...

Anyway... I did some statistics awhile ago (its somewhere deep in the tatics forum by now) and statistically the Razorflails outpreformed the Hydra Gauntlets on average except when you got the re-roll to wound drug, as it took away from the Razorflails ability. And even then the distance wasnt really that much except against GEQ...

As for which wych weapon to take though, I would say none. While the extra damage is nice, its useless as a wych (or in your case a bloodbride) is always better than a weapon. So unless you get another set to make 10, your better off with the extra body (or saving the points). The reason is the wych weapon rarely outpreforms the extra body (who comes with a wound and a save). The shardnet doesnt work as well as it used to either due to casualties taken from base to base... where the weapon has to be to be effective.

As for sargie upgrade, Remember the weapon can really look like almost anything. There is no reason a venomblade cant be a venom whip, or an Agoniser cant be a sword or claw. The only real problem you fall into is now those weird power weapon types, but even that the rule of cool is more important to most people that WYSIWYG... There is no reason why a power sword or power maul cant be a power whip... just make sure to tell them (and remind them in battle) what type of weapon it is, and have your army list written right so they can always look at it and make sure.

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PostSubject: Re: A question on Wych weapons   A question on Wych weapons I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 20 2013, 16:10

Fair points all... I think i will just be running them bare as pointed out you can get half the effect of razorflails from drugs and the gauntlets are a bit unpredictable...and poor shardnets will maybe get a round of use and then be gone...

Thank you everyone who gave me their input it was all a huge help!
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PostSubject: Re: A question on Wych weapons   A question on Wych weapons I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 20 2013, 16:59

I wouldn't necessarily go bare. Haywire grenades can be really useful (though if you have enough anti-tank then that's a thing that can be dropped). And a venom blade on the hekatrix works wonders for when she gets into a challenge. How many sergeant characters are there that come with a 4+ invulnerable save, WS4, and wound anything on 2s? If the heka charges, a marine sergeant will hit once, 2/3 chance to wound, and you'll save half of those; by contrast you get 2 hits, (2.5 if you got the bonus attack drug) likely 2 wounds, and you go first.

Shardnets are apparently good if you know you'll be facing multiple attack models, but the special weapons are probably best left at home...very few will outperform simply having another wych.

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PostSubject: Re: A question on Wych weapons   A question on Wych weapons I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 20 2013, 18:00

Yea when i said "bare" i meant no wych weapons.... i like my haywire grenades and as far as the sgt( be it a hekatrix or a syren) i can see where the agoniser vs venom blade argument can be made... venom blade is almost assured wounds but they will get a save... agoniser has a worse chance to wound but is an assured wound on any they do on *most* targets... Makes for a very hard choice.
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PostSubject: Re: A question on Wych weapons   A question on Wych weapons I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 20 2013, 20:41

I've just math hammered Venom Blades Vs Agonisers and Venom blades are awesome.
Better against everything except 3+ and 4+
Even 3+ 4++ (so captain with iron halo)

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: A question on Wych weapons   A question on Wych weapons I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 20 2013, 21:33

DominicJ wrote:
I've just math hammered Venom Blades Vs Agonisers and Venom blades are awesome.
Better against everything except 3+ and 4+

Only problem with that is that well over 50% of the armies you will face are going to be 3+ or 4+. So what you're actually saying is

Quote :
Venom blades are awesome. Worse against most stuff

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PostSubject: Re: A question on Wych weapons   A question on Wych weapons I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 20 2013, 22:48

Venom blades...Not as killy, but more killy for their points...

I hear razorflails are great, but I prefer hydra gauntlets myself.

I dont like the agoniser as much since there is a good chance for you to do no wounds to a model... 3 attacks static, 2 hit, 1 wound on average...but often it will be 0 wounds... A venom blade gives you more of a chance to put wounds on... and is cheaper

For me, its either haywire bare....or decked out w/ hek.
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PostSubject: Re: A question on Wych weapons   A question on Wych weapons I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 21 2013, 07:47

For Wyches, keep it cheap and effective.

Venom Blade for the Hekatrix, Haywires for everyone. Sometimes I like to max out and take a Blast PIstol for the Heka, but even then it's not necessary.

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PostSubject: Re: A question on Wych weapons   A question on Wych weapons I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 21 2013, 13:32

Aschen wrote:
1 wound on average...but often it will be 0 wounds...

Sorry but that made me smile XD If you say 1 wound on average than its your dice that make it often no wounds ;-)

Well i use S&I only in Bloodbrides, and than they are there to support my Archon so anny wound the Termi Lord/ MC or other Dead Man Walking does will be saved by a 2++. If you use them against reglar troops make sure, the regulare ones are also in b2b with other Brides. Als long as it is the same Ini, you can save those special weapons.

reguarding the other 2 WW. Its true, most of the times you are better of with just another body, but sometimes you can not take another wych, then they can add something.

5 reglar wyches with a Hekatrix with VB and a wych with Hydra Gs are just that little bit more effective.

sláinte

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PostSubject: Re: A question on Wych weapons   A question on Wych weapons I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 21 2013, 21:11

Of course its the dice...its also maths. The average isnt the consistent. 1 wound on average means generally you will get a wound in. But with those few dice thrown, there is a greater chance for a statistically non-average roll. I.E. Only hitting once instead of twice, which leaves you with a 50% chance to do a wound, relatively
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PostSubject: Re: A question on Wych weapons   A question on Wych weapons I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 23 2013, 11:35

I'm going to try 9 BBs, a Syren with Agoniser, three Hydra Gauntlets and a kitted out Archon in a Raider in my next game.

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