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 So... Wyches

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sgb69
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: So... Wyches   So... Wyches I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 13 2013, 02:31

Does anyone actually use Wyches as a tarpit? Ya know, assault some bigger, meaner squad and hold them in close combat for as long as possible?

Seems like whenever I see Wyches they're kitted out as expendable suicide bombers or as escorts for a killy IC. Is their job in your list to kill a unit and take an objective, or to dance with something scary for three to four rounds of combat?

Is Feel No Pain necessary for them to do their job?

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Archon Farath Mure
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PostSubject: Re: So... Wyches   So... Wyches I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 13 2013, 04:48

Sometimes, as I tend to want my units able to effectively fill multiple roles if possible. When I do that, there's usually a Succubus supporting the unit though, seeing as otherwise mine have a tendency to bounce off. Starting them with a haemy in the unit would work too, against most targets.

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: So... Wyches   So... Wyches I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 13 2013, 05:52

That depends on the numbers. 3 squads of suicide bombers is a decent tarpit. Feel no pain is not nesessary, more dakka is.

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Archon_Azathriel
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PostSubject: Re: So... Wyches   So... Wyches I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 13 2013, 06:02

10 girls with shardnet and impalers makes for a very good tarpit against big Nids, in my personal experience. I've tied up 3 Tyranid Warriors and a Tyranid Prime for most of the game with a 10 girl squad, equipped with shardnet, razorflails, hekatrix w/ agoniser.

They've also been tied up in combat with a Space Marine tactical squad for an entire game... 36 attacks on the charge and not a single casualty >__<

FnP is useful but not necessary for slowing the enemy down. A 15 girl squad would do wonders even without FnP. Furious Charge and Fearless make them even better, but are harder to achieve sometimes... unless you have a Cronos or a Haemonculus to help.

IMO, Wyches have pretty short life spans, even for Eldar units. Getting them in close combat is often more a matter of survival for them than actually winning the fight. Razz

If you want terror, use Bloodbrides. The extra attack in their profile works wonders.
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Panic_Puppet
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PostSubject: Re: So... Wyches   So... Wyches I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 13 2013, 11:20

I managed to bog down a warscythe/mindshackle scarab d-lord with my unit of 9 last night... stops him from getting at my incubi or my ally's guard gunline.

Hell, if you get lucky with a hekatrix in a challenge, you can even tarpit someone's 130+ point HQ with your 25 point sergeant quite happily (any WS4 HQ, of which there are a surprising amount, will struggle to get past).

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Khorndog
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PostSubject: Re: So... Wyches   So... Wyches I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 13 2013, 20:08

I go for full on killyness, with 10 wyches, 2 hydra gauntlets, and hekatrix with either ag or vb. Putting out an average of 36 attacks on the charge, your opponent should be taking 6 saves on average (WS4/T4).

I take three units of them, all in raiders, and try to either combo-charge scary things to tarpit, or take out troops to play objective denial. Takes out most infantry with ease, though grey knights and deathwing can be tougher. They work well against most things in my experience, and yes fnp is a huge boon.
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agosyb
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PostSubject: Re: So... Wyches   So... Wyches I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 13 2013, 20:50

I agree if you're going for lethality two hydra gauntlets and a venom blade hekatrix is the way to go. If you have the HQ slots there was an ingesting thread a while back that argued the merits of throwing a cheap venom blade succubus in with a 5 MSN unit with a venom blade hekatrix. That way when their transport bows up, and it will, you don't actually lose most of your killing power. I think that costs just about the same as a ten man unit of wyches too.

More on topic wyches as a tarpit are more of a strategic choice than a tactical choice, that is they're good at it in some cases just by nature; their native 4+ invulnerable in combat. Wraiths, ss terminators, fearless cultist/guard blobs, and grotesques are tarpits. Wyches though, for ten points a piece, can dance around a few power fist attacks like pros. So the answer to the question of "are they a tarpit?"is it depends. Basically small elite, highpower armor piercing attacks are what they excel at dodging just because of the points disparity that's probably there. No they won't tank a boys mob or even a tactical squad and if they're caught with their panties down in the shooting phase they're obviously as good as gone. Fnp is neato if you have it but don't bother if your plan is to tie stuff up, as most of they're tarpit targets are going to instant death them in combat. Honestly wyches are over rated in combat imo, they can be good, but they'll only ever be 140 points good. A grey hunter squad starts at 150, remember that.
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Balisong
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PostSubject: Re: So... Wyches   So... Wyches I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 13 2013, 21:19

They will surprise you too sometimes.

I've had a 5 man squad with a Venom Blade Hekatrix take out a Demon Prince of Nurgle in one round.

Granted it was single-handedly the worst set of saves I've ever seen anyone roll with a Daemon Prince...

And he had lost 2 wounds to splinter fire...

But I digress...
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*Eversor*
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PostSubject: Re: So... Wyches   So... Wyches I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 14 2013, 02:09

I use wyches as the unit of choice for holding the enemy until the incubi get there. I tool mine up killy since killing 1 or 2 extra guys does the same thing or more than a shardnet denying attacks often does.

Not to mention haywire grenades are death incarnate to dreadnaughts and other armor.

Think of your army as a scorpion, the wyches are the pincer, the incubi or other super killy cc unit is the stinger, pincer grabs, stinger kills.
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DominicJ
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PostSubject: Re: So... Wyches   So... Wyches I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 14 2013, 07:39

Not really
A 4++ isnt that much different from a 3+
Unless you fight Termies of course.

I much prefer winning the fight, against anything none fearless, its a slaughter (stupid ATSKN).
9 wyches (or blood brides) with a HQ can deal out a lot of punishment, take little, and run them down.

A 100pt wych squad kills 0.556 assault marines (11pts), a 100pt assault marine squad kills 1.833 wyches (18pts), not much of a tarpit.

Just run away, you dont have to engage

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Crazy_Irish
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PostSubject: Re: So... Wyches   So... Wyches I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 14 2013, 08:31

@DominicJ wrote:
Not really
A 4++ isnt that much different from a 3+
Unless you fight Termies of course.

I much prefer winning the fight, against anything none fearless, its a slaughter (stupid ATSKN).
9 wyches (or blood brides) with a HQ can deal out a lot of punishment, take little, and run them down.

A 100pt wych squad kills 0.556 assault marines (11pts), a 100pt assault marine squad kills 1.833 wyches (18pts), not much of a tarpit.

Just run away, you dont have to engage

A 4++ is much different than a 3+. Not just against Termis, against all PW sporting troops and armour ignoring MC, and there you should take the wyches.

the old wyches where great against assault units, as they took their +1 for an extra CCW away, but now they really are the "where the Inccubi should not go"

Im not shure how you calculated there but calculating 100P of this with 100P of that is just bogas. first of, wyches can have a char that negates the 3+ of the SM, the SM can not negate the 4++. also the wyches can have a boost through their combat drugs and pain tokens.

and like i sad, wyches exell against PW sporting troups that the Inccubi would like to go around.

I like to use Blood brides as my babysitter for an archon. with 3 S&I around the archon im shure he will not have to make too many of those nasty 2++ ;-) Also if you roll +1A for your combat drug roll, youll have a Siren with 6A on the charge...

sláinte

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Skye26
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PostSubject: Re: So... Wyches   So... Wyches I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 14 2013, 11:18

Wyches have always worked well for me, i run 9 squads of 5, (3 bloodbrides) each with VB and razorflail.

They always work best against high points cost units with power weapons like terminators for eg
Ofc most the time i'm charging with 2 units and yes sometimes they die, but it always takes a good few turns to get rid of them and there only 85pts! Yahtzee!

Personally i think there brilliant at what they do for there points cost

Now, if only we could get the wych weapons rule back from 3rd...hmm...

Edit: Ohh and i forgot one of the best parts! They have HW grenades to ^.^

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DominicJ
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PostSubject: Re: So... Wyches   So... Wyches I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 14 2013, 12:16

Skye
Thats my plan
9x5 in Venoms with haywires, but without champions or equipment.

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eeknight
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PostSubject: Re: So... Wyches   So... Wyches I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 14 2013, 23:29

I've had very good results with 7-9 in a Raider against Space Marines/CSM by having them escort my Succubus w/ either a Power Weapon or Venom Blade. I usually add a hekatrix to handle an unexpected challenge that might prevent the Succubus from taking heads. The wyches are really along for "look out, sir."

I love running small grenade groups in a Venom for dreadnought hunting or taking out armor that isn't properly covered by infantry. Haywire grenades are one of the best buys in the game and HWG Wyches are really effective anti-armor for the cost.
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agosyb
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PostSubject: Re: So... Wyches   So... Wyches I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 16 2013, 01:00

I use mine the same way as eeknight. In their little 5 girl group they can bully stuff like chaos cultists, space marine scouts, and just about any Eldar that aren't aspect warriors, depending on drugs. I like re-roll wound and+ 1 str the most. If you have the points left hanging around in you're list giving them some teeth with a cheap venom blade hekatrix is never a bad idea. Just realize that they are speed bumps our mop up. Asking more than that is getting ambitious.
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