THE DARK CITY
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.



 
HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityRegisterLog in

 

 Kenny3760 goes to War

Go down 
+9
DarkKokabel
Raneth
Thor665
Hashmal
theblackjackal
Spanna uv Komor-AAAGH!
General Smooth
GAR
kenny3760
13 posters
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
AuthorMessage
DarkKokabel
Hellion
DarkKokabel


Posts : 62
Join date : 2011-07-24
Location : Texas, USA

Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kenny3760 goes to War   Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 12 2011, 16:03

Question for you Kenny, and I don't mean to revive a semi dead topic but I figure it is somewhat important with how he is playing and his tournament in a week. When you role the drug for an extra pain token, how are you getting your hellions 3? the only unit benefiting from the combat drug roll is the unit of hellions with the haemonculus attached. So the unit would have 2 and when you pull the haemonculus away each one will have one. And the Baron could only pull the one from the wracks. That only comes out to 2 pain tokens, which can really change the tide of a game if your hellions are taking a lot of fire.
Back to top Go down
kenny3760
Sybarite
avatar


Posts : 462
Join date : 2011-06-15
Location : Inverness Scotland

Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kenny3760 goes to War   Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 12 2011, 19:43

Good point. In all the games I've played and got the extra PT from the combat drugs roll, neither I nor any of my opponents have picked up on that. I had completely overlooked it, thanks for bringing it up.

On another matter, played against orks during the week. Rolled up the mission, which was Annhilation and Spearhead. I lost the roll for choice of turn and deployment zone.
In my first round of shooting at a battlewagon with 9 dark lances, I did not once get to roll on the damage table. So that wasn't to clever. Eventually lost 12-8.
Full report coming soon, been mega busy at home with mulitudes of family visiting, but I'll get to it soonish.
Back to top Go down
kenny3760
Sybarite
avatar


Posts : 462
Join date : 2011-06-15
Location : Inverness Scotland

Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kenny3760 goes to War   Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 15 2011, 23:15

So, this was not my finest hour. I am hoping that I am learning from the mistakes I am making in these games as the tournament is less than a week away now. I'm pretty sure some of the terrible decisions and judgements I made in this game won't be repeated, as I tend not to get my head really into practice games, even this late on, and don't concentrate as much as I should.

Hopefully I'll also start doing some with a bit more narrative attached once I've got this event out of the way.

http://thedarkcity.forummotion.com/t1024-kenny3760-v-orks-1500-points
Back to top Go down
kenny3760
Sybarite
avatar


Posts : 462
Join date : 2011-06-15
Location : Inverness Scotland

Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kenny3760 goes to War   Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 18 2011, 11:16

Well, I had my final practice game last night before this weekends tournament. It was against a 4 battlewagon ork list. 4 Battlewagons, warboss, 4 nobz and painboy all individually kitted out, big mek with KFF, 3 mega nobz individually kitted, grots and 11 lootas.

I'm not going to bother with a battle report as there was that much wrong with the way the battlewagons were played that it's a pointless exercise. After 7 turns it was a draw with neither of us capable of holding an objective as the only infantry left was his big mek safely tucked up in a battlewagon.

So what did I learn:

1: the deff roller attack has the mechanics of a normal tank shock and does not just inflict D6 st 10 wounds on any unit it hits with no way of avoiding it. I questioned this a few times but my opponent insisted it was like impact hits from fantasy that happened before everything else. My hellions spent the whole game being chased around the board getting deff rollered out of existance. Whats more the battlewagon that was doing it, then was shooting the crap out of them despite having moved 13". This crap eventually ended on turn 6 when someone else had a look through the codex and pointed out the mechanics of deff rolling.

2: Grot riggers do not repair every thing on a BW with a 4+ it's only immobilised damage it repairs. So in essence what I was seeing was a BW parking lot with the ability to repair anything on a 4 from 2 D6 die rolls. One from grot riggers and one from the big mek. So no matter what I did to the BW's with dark lances it was repaired next turn. Again I questioned this but hey ho it was only a practice game. In a tournament I'd have called a ref over for a look in the codex and faq's.

One other thing I was not sure about was the big mek even being able to repair a wreck, might be able to but seems a bit strange.

So pointless exercise apart from learning a few rules, that I doubt anybody would pull in a tournament. The guy I played wasn't cheating as such, he just genuinly know his rules. He's been playing since 2nd ed and still comes out with rules from all previous editions every now and then.

So I'm looking forward to the tournament, feeling pretty good about the army, I use practice games to iron out a few things in my head, like special rules and to learn about the enemy units more than what mine can do.

I'll report back on how I get on, probably just a resume as I find taking pics during games interupts my flow.
Back to top Go down
GAR
Dread Pirate
GAR


Posts : 908
Join date : 2011-05-19

Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kenny3760 goes to War   Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 18 2011, 15:06

Wrecked is wrecked. You can't repair a wreck.

Skimmer dodge any ram attack on a 3+, or maybe 4+, unless it comes from another skimmer.

I don't know of anything on the ground that can move and shoot if it moved over 12 except for some BA armor using POTMS.

Sounds like some shennanigans to me.

That being said, its good to get a good review of the rules so you are not surprised in a tourney.

Good luck this weekend and bring back some tales of Glory and conrquest!

_________________
The Dread Pirate Garness
Visit my occasionally update blog


Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 Youdaamrg
Back to top Go down
http://garness.blogspot.com/
kenny3760
Sybarite
avatar


Posts : 462
Join date : 2011-06-15
Location : Inverness Scotland

Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kenny3760 goes to War   Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 22 2011, 15:27

Went to a 1500 point, 6 game tournament over the weekend. The reports from it are in the realspace raids section at:

http://thedarkcity.forummotion.com/t1056-kenny3760-goes-to-x-legion#10618

I am still gathering my thoughts on it, but initially I am surprised at how often I wished I had more AT firepower, I had 21 darklight weapons on 8 platforms and I was on occasion still lookiong for more. The list overall works well, although due to my venom models the hellions screen is pretty useless, a couple of opponents pointed out that the hellions don't cover half the model, I'm not so sure and probably more careful spacing of the hellions would solve that.

One thing was the lack of BLOS. In 4 of my games there was nothing that blocked BLOS, the other 2 games had 1 piece on each table. All the flat topped hills, vegetation patches, trees and spires do not provide our skimmers with a cover save due to the height of the flying stand. It's something we need to get used to. The TO is a friend of mine and we were talking about this on Saturday night over a few beers and it is on his to do list. A lot of his terrain was built during 4th ed when it worked fine but it's not so effective in 5th. He has been adding to it and hopefully he'll be able to do a few more pieces.

Any thought on how it went, or what I could have done differently welcome.

I'm now working on a 1750 list for the rest of this years events so that'll be up soon.
Back to top Go down
GAR
Dread Pirate
GAR


Posts : 908
Join date : 2011-05-19

Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kenny3760 goes to War   Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 22 2011, 15:46

The 50% cover thing is a real pain I'm also trying to wrap my head around as well.

Its a simple enough rule that becomes highly contentious as what is or is not 50% is subjective. The other argument I get into is whether my sails count as part of the hull. I argue, most aggressively, that they are not.

This brings into a point that we as DE players are going to have to be prepared for and that is lack of BLOS cover. Its fine and well to say make use of cover, but I have found more than a handful of times, sometimes there just isn't any suitable cover on the tables, and you can't hide behind a crater.

I think this needs to be considered in your army build and skimmer upgrades. Which is the correct path forward I don't know. I think it will largely depend on the reasonable expectation of the tournament you are going to and what is reasonable for a local friendly game.

Off to read the Bat rep.

_________________
The Dread Pirate Garness
Visit my occasionally update blog


Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 Youdaamrg
Back to top Go down
http://garness.blogspot.com/
kenny3760
Sybarite
avatar


Posts : 462
Join date : 2011-06-15
Location : Inverness Scotland

Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kenny3760 goes to War   Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 22 2011, 16:50

Yeah, I've always had a chuckle to myself when I hear the, just use cover line, As you can see on those tables, (and by the way, those are some of the best tables outside of WHW that I have played on for terrain in tournaments) there is no way of hugging cover, it is not there. Sure you can try screening and moving fast but quite simply it will be very seldom that you can truly hide one of our vehicles.
Even with moving fast it's hard going. For example the IG list I faced ignores cover for moving fast completely, but lets say you successfully screen your ravager with a raider and get a 4+ that way. 2 Hydras 8 twin linked shots, probably hits with 5, even with a 4+ it's 2 through a 50% chance to glance and thats your ravager probably doing not a lot next turn. Repeat with 2 other hydra squadrens and 3 vendettas, and it's a mess.

I think that I'll be dropping all the Flickerfields from my skimmers, and adopting a move fast and strike once policy on them. The FF can give you a false sense of security, but it's important to remember that it is only a 33% chance of saving, rather than the 50% from flat-out. It's still a bargain at 10 points but if you have 4 or 5 of them then perhaps the points can be used elsewhere.
At 1750 I am considering a Razorwing and some wych units with haywire grenades in raiders instead of warriors. Gives it a more Cult feel with hellions and wyches and haywire grenades are pretty reliable for suppressing tanks. The razorwing means I can drop a venom or 2 and replace them with raiders. Still in the melting pot.
Back to top Go down
GAR
Dread Pirate
GAR


Posts : 908
Join date : 2011-05-19

Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kenny3760 goes to War   Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 22 2011, 16:59

Wyches are my primary tank hunters. I get some grief about it, but 8 or 9 ladies with haywire grenades is pretty darn brutal, especially on a parking lot where nothing has moved.

_________________
The Dread Pirate Garness
Visit my occasionally update blog


Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 Youdaamrg
Back to top Go down
http://garness.blogspot.com/
Thor665
Archon
Thor665


Posts : 5526
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Venice, FL

Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kenny3760 goes to War   Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 22 2011, 22:46

kenny3760 wrote:
I had 21 darklight weapons on 8 platforms and I was on occasion still lookiong for more.
At 1500 I run 23 on 13 platforms. (and I think you run 9 platforms...unless we're using a different way to classify platform - I consider any lance weapon that can fire at a different target its own platform)
Note that the big difference is platforms and not lance count? The danger with your list is that over half of your lances are tied up in functionally 6 targets and that if he's scared of anti-tank it's a no brainer which 6 targets he should go after.

It's one of the reasons Haywires on Wyches are so good - it helps add threat to things that normally an all mech list would prefer not to shoot at. Most of your big problems (The IG and Deathwing [though - yeah, Deathwing was a bit of deployment kerfluffing]) sort of stemmed from your inability to bring shooting to bear (and, specifically, high strength low AP shooting, really)

Quote :
The list overall works well, although due to my venom models the hellions screen is pretty useless, a couple of opponents pointed out that the hellions don't cover half the model, I'm not so sure and probably more careful spacing of the hellions would solve that.
I would say so, Hellions are high enough - you'd probably open the Hellions up as an optimal blast/template threat though if you actually packed them in as close as you'd need to get a cover save.

Quote :
Any thought on how it went, or what I could have done differently welcome.
Wink Well... *cough*Hellions*cough* nothing springs right to mind...
I will also note that I don't really recall you ever mentioning the Wracks or Haemonculi helping you out really for anything (occasionally the Wracks got mention as the died, and the Haem was mentioned as providing a KP for your opponent. Are you sure they are helping you out? Are they helping you out more than maybe an alternate option would?
I'll also snidely note that the Baron and his boys didn't appear to perform to the level they needed to. Most of your battle reports seemed to indicate value in the army when Ravagers and Venoms were doing good, and failure when they were not - the Hellions sort of partied along and did okay in some places and abysmally in others. I'd seriously examine if they're really helping you win games or not.

Quote :
I'm now working on a 1750 list for the rest of this years events so that'll be up soon.
Look forward to that.

Also - it was DE v. DE at the top table? Awesome!
Back to top Go down
kenny3760
Sybarite
avatar


Posts : 462
Join date : 2011-06-15
Location : Inverness Scotland

Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kenny3760 goes to War   Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 23 2011, 05:18

Interesting point about what the Hellions, wracks and haemi brought to the table and I'll try to summarise it game by game. Of course the wracks and heami are primarily there for pain token shenanigans.

Game 1

Hellions: Drew a massive amount of AT fire in the first couple of turns, which was why the covers saves became such an issue. After this they went on general clean up duty on units emerging from the WWP.

Wracks: In the last 2 turns they drew fire from his dissie ravager as he desperately tried to kill them off for a KP. Going to ground in cover meant one survived till the end. Also meant his dissies were not shooting at my trueborn venoms.

Heami: passed on pain token, toasted a few wyches with his liquifier near the end and then died

Game 2

Nobody did anything in this game but die.........quickly

Game 3

Hellions: Softened up a few units with splinter pod fire. Charged and wiped out the Tactical squad camped in the wrecked rhino on his objective. Held his objective.

Wracks: Camped on my objective until a ven dread drop podded in to deal with them. I'd rather the dread wasted his time doing that than melta gunning my tanks.

Heami: Gave away pain token, hopped on the warriors raider and partied till the game was over.

Game 4

Hellions: Essentially held my objective after gunning down his callidus assassin.

Wracks: Formed part of my 3 unit objective camp at the start of the game. Callidus had to deal with these to try an contest my objective. Sure they died but they held her up for a turn so the hellions could gun her down.

Heami: Passed on pain token, hid in the immobiolised raider to the end of the game

Game 5

Hellions: Failed in their task of providing a screen to my tanks and transports due to poor positioning. Very ineffective, bounced off a terminator unit, ran away.

Wracks: hid at the back of the board and died

Heami: Passed on his pain token, then put a wound on the attack bike with his liquifier


Game 6

Hellions: Charged and destroyed a wave serpent contesting an objective, held the objective at the end of the game. Were in a position to contest another if game had gone to turn 6. Up until this point I'd held them back exactly for this.

Wracks: Died to Yriels eye pie plate. Again purely a distraction.

Heami: Cant actually remeber what he did in this game.


Summary

I reckon in 4 of the 6 games the Hellions did have an effect on the game, maybe not in terms of killing power but in other ways. Games 3, 4 and 6 they held objectives to either win or draw me the game. In the first game they were a massive distraction to my opponent allowing my venoms and ravagers to go about their work unmolested for a turn or 2. Do they help me win games, I'd say yes, do they outright win me games, no. I'd also agree that in 3 of those games my ravagers and venoms were on fire, perhaps they are linked.
They are under review for the 1750 list, probably cut down in size.

The wracks are doing exactly what I expect them to do, for 30 points I consider them a steal

Heami, I am not so sure about having looked through this. The liquifier I am finding distinctly underwhelming. In competitive and practice games I can't remember ever getting a 3 or less for AP and the St 4 is hardly devastating. He may be the first thing to go.

Lance weapons, either did great or fluffed. In games 2 and 6 I had massive failures on my first round of shooting, due to a combination of factors, poor rolling, saves etc. Platforms for lance weapons, yeah I'd agree with 9, I was overlooking the blaster in the raider as a seperate platform. I can see the advantage of more platforms, it just requires an expenditure of $$$/£££ to get the raiders or reavers.

The 1750 list will probably include 2 units of haywire wyches in raiders and possibly a unit of beasts if I can dare to shed some hellions.

Thanks again for the thought provoking questions and observations.

DE finished in 1st and 3rd place, seperated by a war walker spam eldar list. I was 10th and the other DE player finished in the mid 20's I think. BA Mephiston delivery, R/back/dev squad spam was 4th and the deathwing player I played finished 5th.
Back to top Go down
Crisis_Vyper
Kabalite Warrior
Crisis_Vyper


Posts : 227
Join date : 2011-08-03

Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kenny3760 goes to War   Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 23 2011, 05:55

GAR wrote:
Wyches are my primary tank hunters. I get some grief about it, but 8 or 9 ladies with haywire grenades is pretty darn brutal, especially on a parking lot where nothing has moved.
To a degree I would agree with this function.

Despite the wyches being somewhat mediocre in my games so far (overkilling is always a bane for wyches), but the reason why they are still in my lists is because they offer me a few things that my entire list lacks;

1) Trench-stomers - They are perhaps one of the best units to storm those objectives where a bunch of Plague Marines or Imperial Guardsmen are located. They also help in storming those pesky long-ranged ranged platforms such as the Lootas or Long Fangs.

2) My alternate Anti-tank - at times the ranged approach is just not working (Here's looking at you parking lots) , or my opponent turned out to be a Necron. I have not faced any Necrons so far, but nonetheless I want to be prepared for it.

3) Fire Magnets: For reasons unknown to me so far, the wyches always get the lion's share of any incoming firepower. In their minds, the wych is the 40k equivalent of Freddy Krueger and they do not want their nightmares to become real. This factor saved my army from massive retribution more times than not. Hell, some people even charged into the squad in an act of suicide by cop from time to time.

Quote :
Yeah, I've always had a chuckle to myself when I hear the, just use cover line, As you can see on those tables, (and by the way, those are some of the best tables outside of WHW that I have played on for terrain in tournaments) there is no way of hugging cover, it is not there. Sure you can try screening and moving fast but quite simply it will be very seldom that you can truly hide one of our vehicles.
Even with moving fast it's hard going. For example the IG list I faced ignores cover for moving fast completely, but lets say you successfully screen your ravager with a raider and get a 4+ that way. 2 Hydras 8 twin linked shots, probably hits with 5, even with a 4+ it's 2 through a 50% chance to glance and thats your ravager probably doing not a lot next turn. Repeat with 2 other hydra squadrens and 3 vendettas, and it's a mess.

As for the 'seek cover' question, a rather crazy idea worth mentioning is the idea of using your own units as cover. It is vital that you get cover no matter the source, and if that means making partial sacrifices for the overall victory then by all means do so. This is perhaps why I am an advocate of Venoms and Raiders as moving terrain first, transport second, and gun platform third.

I learned this from the Orks, and I learned it the hard way more often than not when I was playing as an Ork.

[quoteI reckon in 4 of the 6 games the Hellions did have an effect on the game, maybe not in terms of killing power but in other ways. Games 3, 4 and 6 they held objectives to either win or draw me the game. In the first game they were a massive distraction to my opponent allowing my venoms and ravagers to go about their work unmolested for a turn or 2. Do they help me win games, I'd say yes, do they outright win me games, no. I'd also agree that in 3 of those games my ravagers and venoms were on fire, perhaps they are linked.
They are under review for the 1750 list, probably cut down in size.[/quote]

Well wave of Green Goblins will have an impact on the table no matter how good they are.

Personally I am a proponent of the lancaster square theory, and having two of the same unit is always four times better than having one of the same unit. This is perhaps why people tend to go with the wyches over the hellions, as you can have a lot more of them and they can come with their vehicle and lances. Strength by numbers.
Back to top Go down
kenny3760
Sybarite
avatar


Posts : 462
Join date : 2011-06-15
Location : Inverness Scotland

Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kenny3760 goes to War   Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 25 2011, 04:35

After further pondering of the weekends tournament I find myself leaning more and more to wyches for troops instead of warriors. The warriors blasters were not really a factor in any of my games over the weekend and in general I found the warriors were not much of a factor.
I will be trying out some lists with wyches with haywire grenades mounted in raiders instead. I have also just about finished building and painting my razorwing so I intend to give that a try as well. I am thinking that with the introduction of the wyches and raiders I should have enough AT to compensate for the razorwing replacing a ravager. These changes will also spread out my AT across more platform. I'll also be experimenting further with a beast pack in combination with a reduced pack of hellions.

Probably end up along the lines of this at 1750 points

Baron
Heami
3 units of 3 Blasterborn in twin cannon venoms
3 wracks in a Raider (cheapest way of getting a mobile gunboat)
2 units of haywire wyches in Raiders (probably around 7 wyches, AT unit or could be used for tarpitting)
10 Hellions (much reduced pack, fast mobile troop unit)
Beast Pack (3 masters 4 flocks 6 kyhmera, assault element)
2 Ravagers
Razorwing

Thats the idea at the minute, any thoughts on it.
Back to top Go down
Crisis_Vyper
Kabalite Warrior
Crisis_Vyper


Posts : 227
Join date : 2011-08-03

Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kenny3760 goes to War   Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 25 2011, 09:51

Personally I would take out the baron and also the hellions to take another haemonculus or two and also another squad of wyches in a raider. The haemonculi would make your wych units that much tougher and would work kuch hetter than a small squad of exposed hellions. The extra lance also helps.

_________________
Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 TBIVv
Back to top Go down
kenny3760
Sybarite
avatar


Posts : 462
Join date : 2011-06-15
Location : Inverness Scotland

Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kenny3760 goes to War   Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 31 2011, 22:37

Well I've ordered a few bits and bobs by mail order and they should arrive early next week so I can get building to enhance this army.

So I ordered 2 raiders, 4 razorwing flocks, 10 chaos warhounds (kyhmerea), hellions box (beastmasters) and a load of 40mm bases, as ToS is at warhammer world I am thinking that I will be ok with the chaos warhounds as long as they are based correctly. I have also finished my Razorwing fighter so I have plenty of options available now.

At the minute my idea is as follows:

Baron
Heami
3 units of 3 Blasterborn in twin cannon venoms
3 wracks in a Raider (cheapest way of getting a mobile gunboat)
2 units of haywire wyches in Raiders (probably around 7 wyches, AT unit or could be used for tarpitting)
16 Hellions
Beast Pack (3 masters 4 flocks 5 kyhmerea, assault element)
2 Ravagers
Razorwing

As an alternative I am condidering dropping some hellions to make way for another beastmaster and 5 kyhmerea to make 2 packs of 2 BM, 2 flocks and 5 kyhmerea. Need to do a bit of number crunching and soul searching on this as, I can really can't bear to part with the hellions, although the beasts clearly seem to be the better assault unit. The hellions though are a scoring unit which makes up for quite a bit in this list.
Time to get some thinking done I believe.
Back to top Go down
kenny3760
Sybarite
avatar


Posts : 462
Join date : 2011-06-15
Location : Inverness Scotland

Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kenny3760 goes to War   Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 11 2011, 22:06

Recently I have been running the following list whilst waiting on parts to arrive from Maelstrom Games.

Baron
Lelith
3 units of 3 Blasterborn in twin cannon venoms
2 units of 5 haywire wyches in Venoms
1 unit of 7 haywire wyches in raider
10 Hellions
2 Ravagers
Razorwing


It's actually a pretty fun list to play. Wyches get straight upfield and into assault with Lelith alongside (note Lelith does NOT get combat drugs). Lelith is a monster once she gets going, FC just turns her into an out and out killer. However I don't feel she is worth the points in a competitive list, loads of fun though.
The Razorwing attracts fire like nothing else. It's amazing that once it's unloaded it's missiles that people will still target it over a Ravager, it just looks that impressive, love it. The army has been going pretty well but I have got word that my order has been dispatched and should be here before the end of the week. That means I'll have 2 raiders, 3 beastmasters and 5 Khymerae to build to get the list to where I want it as :

Baron
Heami
3 units of 3 Blasterborn in twin cannon venoms
3 wracks in a Raider
2 units of haywire wyches in Raiders
16 Hellions
Beast Pack 3 masters 4 flocks 6 kyhmerea
2 Ravagers
Razorwing

I'll do a bit of tactical analysis on why I've decided to go with this over the next couple of days, but right now I've got MoTD and a bottle of Red calling on me.
Back to top Go down
kenny3760
Sybarite
avatar


Posts : 462
Join date : 2011-06-15
Location : Inverness Scotland

Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kenny3760 goes to War   Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 14 2011, 23:31

Well I’ve finally decided on the list I’m going to use for the last 2, 1750 point tournaments I will be attending this year. I’m going to go through the list and do a bit of analysis on the units, explain what their role is and why I have chosen them. Heres the list.

Baron Sathonyx

Heamonculus

3 Trueborn with Blasters, Venom with Dual Splinter Cannons (x 3)

3 Wracks, Raider with Dark Lance

7 Wyches, Haywire Grenades, Raider with Dark Lance (x2)

16 Hellions

3 Beastmasters, 4 Razorwing Flocks, 5 Khymerea

Ravager, 3 Dark Lances (x 2)

Razorwing, 4 Monoscythe missiles, 2 Dark Lances, Flickerfield


Originally the army started out as a fairly standard Venom spam list but has gradually evolved away from that. Sure it still has some very obvious choices from a power build point of view, but there are a few units that are not so common in a tournament setting.

Baron Sathonyx
Role: All around army boost and assault unit buff

4 reasons for taking this guy in my list,
• +1 for the roll at the start of the game
• making hellions into troops
• stealth on any unit he joins
• PGL

Well we are Dark Eldar, we want the Alpha strike, so why not increase your chances of getting it. I firmly believe that the Baron is a better choice than Vect for controlling this part of the game. If successful he allows you to choose your deployment zone that bests suits you to set up, whereas with Vect you can have no influence on that. But the cool thing is that perhaps you don’t want to be going first (daemons, drop pod assault) and he gives you the chance to manipulate that as well.

Hellions as troops, I know there are people out there who really don’t rate Hellions, but a large scoring unit of jump infantry, with an assault 2 poison weapon and 2 strength 4 attacks as base appeals to me.

Stealth on any unit, enough said really, makes your unit just that bit harder to kill, 2+ going to ground on an objective anybody.

PGL, just what we need on our Hellions or Beast unit as it assaults into cover.

For 105 points I believe this guy is a steal for almost any army, but when combined with a couple of the units in this list he really does begin to shine.

Heamonculus
Role: Pain token donator, sacrificial lamb, troop choice generator

No beating about the bush with this choice. He is here purely to pass on a pain token to the Hellions, after that I don’t care what he does, he is a small part in the bigger scheme of things. Oh yeah he also makes my 30 point unit of wracks scoring and that means my opponent has to hunt them down and kill them, if he can see them.

Blasterborn with Venom
Role: Anti-tank, Anti-infantry

This is a standard unit in almost all tournament lists and rightly so, 3 Blasters with an effective range of 33” can put the hurt on most armies out there. This is one unit that brings true duality to the table. Pop the transport with the Trueborn, then mow down the contents with the Venoms splinter cannon.

One complaint levelled against this unit is that it can be a bit of a suicide squad, as you have to get them out the transport to be able to fire if you moved more than 6”. I always aim to either swamp the target so that there is nothing left to return fire, or get these guys out into cover if needs be, this helps avoid the suicide tag.

Wracks with Raider
Role: Cheap objective holder, Anti-tank, Pain token donator

These guys provide the Baron with a pain token at the start of the game. Once they have carried out their primary role these guys scurry off and find a large piece of terrain to hide in.

The idea here is that to kill 30 points worth of non-effective models the enemy has to expend an unreasonable amount of effort. These dudes are going to ground for a 3+ cover save, until the last turn when they will sprint on to an objective.

Finally I can buy a Raider for these boys, cheapest one in the book!

Wyches with Raider
Role: Anti-tank, assault support, tarpitting

7 Wyches with Haywire Grenades, you’ve just got to love them for assaulting tanks. If they aren’t hitting automatically it means that tank is on the move and firing less guns at you. No other upgrades for these ladies, if they are not charging into a vehicle they will be supporting each other or another assault unit, they don’t need any upgrades to help them with this. Nice and cheap.

Bring a Raider along to help them get where they are needed or to provide another first turn anti-tank threat.

Hellions
Role: Anti-infantry, objective grabbing and a bit of anti-tank

16 Hellions, not everyone’s favourite unit, but I love these guys. One of the ideas of the army is to get these guys to be fearless as soon as possible, and with a bit of pain token shenanigans at the start of the game they will have 2 start with. An easy kill and they are there.

Whats the point, well you then have a large blob of fearless jump infantry with which to jump on objectives, who have stealth (with the Baron) for a 2+ going to ground save, with FnP to boot.
They can also happily assault most units with their assault 2 splinter pods to soften up the target before charging in. Short range AI fire will allow me to spread around the Venoms fire at other targets.

They are also a viable anti-tank threat. With S4 base and S5 on the charge this unit can generate enough attacks to threaten the rear armour of most vehicles in the game.

Beast Unit
Role: Assault Anti-infantry, Anti-tank

3 Beastmasters, 4 Razorwing flocks and 5 Khymerea

Now I’m going to be honest and say I’m going out on a limb with this unit. I’ve only tried them once and to be honest I was not impressed. However looking back I played them completely wrong, and having done a bit of research and serious thinking they are in.

So what changed my mind, stats that’s what.
This unit generates 50 attacks on the charge, 24 of which are rending, it has 28 wounds which unless you get hit with instant death wounds can be maintained with wound allocation tricks to keep the unit hanging around in combat.
I intend to run these guys close by the Hellions to make use of the Barons abilities on which ever unit would benefit the most from them in that turn.
And oh yeah 24 rending attacks will hurt up to AV12

Ravagers
Role: Anti-tank

What can you say about Ravagers that has not been said before. Quite simply the best anti-tank option available to us. 3 Dark Lances, nice and cheap, either fire to kill or move to hide or get a cover save. Only taking 2 this time so that I can squeeze in a Razorwing

Razorwing with Flickerfield
Role: Anti-infantry, Fire Magnet, Anti-tank

When I came to build this list I had more Raiders in it than previously, which meant I had less Venoms than before. I looked at the ratio of anti infantry and tank capability in the list and thought that long range AI was a bit lacking. Obvious choice to boost that without losing Raiders for Venoms was to get a Razorwing.
Nice 4 missile cargo with which to smack down those pesky lootas, fangs or horde units. The strength of the missile means that a well placed shot should be causing a few wounds on any unit it hits, which can only be good. Fire all 4 at an essential to kill unit.

But the fun doesn’t end there. I don’t know what it is about a Razorwing but it attracts fire like it’s going out of fashion, even when it’s dumped it’s missiles. So this is the only vehicle I’ve purchased a FF for, just to make it a bit harder to bring down and so that it attracts even more fire away from my 3 lance Ravagers. If it survives a round of shooting it can then contribute a couple of lance shots as a bonus.

Feel free to rip it apart or add some thoughts to it as you wish. The list is set though as the beast unit is built and painted apart from the masters who are built, one raider is built whilst the other has still to be started so there is no gooing back now. Everything else is built and painted. Once I get the last pieces done I'll pop up some pics of the army.


Last edited by kenny3760 on Fri Sep 16 2011, 18:17; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
speedfreek
Sybarite
speedfreek


Posts : 373
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Sweden

Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kenny3760 goes to War   Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 15 2011, 06:36

I think both the list and the analysis of it are good.

I think I personally would like an extra Venom more than the Wracks' Raider though.

_________________
Harlequinade Macabre - Project Log
Back to top Go down
kenny3760
Sybarite
avatar


Posts : 462
Join date : 2011-06-15
Location : Inverness Scotland

Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kenny3760 goes to War   Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 15 2011, 14:48

Completely understand the venom/raider decision. It took me a good while to decide which way to go and in the end I decided a turn 1 AT strike was going to be more beneficial to the overall list.
Back to top Go down
kenny3760
Sybarite
avatar


Posts : 462
Join date : 2011-06-15
Location : Inverness Scotland

Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kenny3760 goes to War   Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 22 2011, 20:14

Had another couple of games recently with the army. I'll spare the details but I will say bringing the beasts and razorwing in have certainly helped.

The double assault punch of the hellions and beasts certainly gives opponents a headache and the Razorwing draws far more firepower away from the ravagers than it ever should. If ever there was a case for making a model standout and shout shoot me this is it.
Back to top Go down
Thor665
Archon
Thor665


Posts : 5526
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Venice, FL

Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kenny3760 goes to War   Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 22 2011, 20:56

Awesome to hear this is starting to gel for you.

_________________
Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 K93hWhs
Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 L1RsnGX
The Title Troupe! - Nom fellow posters for custom titles.
Back to top Go down
kenny3760
Sybarite
avatar


Posts : 462
Join date : 2011-06-15
Location : Inverness Scotland

Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kenny3760 goes to War   Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 11 2011, 04:15

Been a bit quiet in here recently but preparations and practice heve continued.

Last week I had a game against a fairly typical BA list:

Mephiston, 3 Sanguinary priests, 4 assault squads in Twin-linked Ass Cannon R/backs, 3 MM attack bikes and 3 5 man dev squads.

Mission was loot (5 counters), pitched battle. Result was a convincing victory as he conceeded on his turn 5, with me holding 2 counters with Hellions and wracks, contesting 2 others with raiders, and the 5th in the open within reach of the Hellions going into a conga line, while he had an assault squad hiding behind a building. If the assault squad stepped out almost my whole army had them in their sights.
I had lost a ravager, a couple of venoms, 2 wych squads, beast unit and a couple of Hellions.

This week I have 2 games lined up. 1 against an Ork Kan/Big Mek/Boyz horde list. 9 Killa Kans, 80 + boys, 2 truks, gretchin, Kommandos, big mek and bike warboss. Plans here are to get rid of the Boys whilst keeping out of the 24" range of most of his AT weapons.

2nd game is against my usual gaming partner who is putting together a GK list for me to face. A coulple of possibilities there but I really expect psyfleman dreads and psycannon strike squads and ass cannon r/backs.

then it's down to Nottingham on Friday morning to Throne of Skulls for a wekend of beer dice and toy soldiers.
Back to top Go down
kenny3760
Sybarite
avatar


Posts : 462
Join date : 2011-06-15
Location : Inverness Scotland

Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kenny3760 goes to War   Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 11 2011, 17:34

Posted up some pics of the army over here

http://thedarkcity.forummotion.com/t1456-throne-of-skulls-2011-army
Back to top Go down
kenny3760
Sybarite
avatar


Posts : 462
Join date : 2011-06-15
Location : Inverness Scotland

Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kenny3760 goes to War   Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 17 2011, 15:29

Back from Throne of Skulls with mixed feelings.
Won 3 and lost 2. After losing the first 2 games I then tabled my next 3 opponents to finish off in good style.

I'll do a small bat rep later on opnce I've gathered my thoughts a bit more but high lights were

  • Tabling Necrons
    Tabling Eldrad/Yriels skimmer spam
    Tabling Terminator heavy list
    Beast unit eating destroyers and terminators
    Baron


Lowlights

  • Hellions
    Beast unit bouncing off tactical squad
    Dark lance epic fails all weekend
    Dice gods, they hate me


I had some appalling luck in all my games, some of which mattered, some of which didn't. I made poor decisions in the 2 games I lost but still had chances to win them with a couple of decent rolls.

The event itself was a lot of fun, pretty chilled and the guys I played against were all sound, good guys. The terrain was the usual mix of sparse and low, but decently done, its GW HQ after all. Food was decent enough and waiter service for the bar at your gaming table was a nice bonus.

Back to top Go down
kenny3760
Sybarite
avatar


Posts : 462
Join date : 2011-06-15
Location : Inverness Scotland

Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kenny3760 goes to War   Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 31 2011, 20:01

I was down in Stirling over the weekend at Stirling Wargamers Rapid Fire tournament. I have put a small report on it here:

http://thedarkcity.forummotion.com/t1614-rapid-fire-1750-tournament


Thats the end of the tournaments for this year for me and also the end of this list in competitive play as it stands. I'll be re-vamping it over the next couple of months as I try to figure out how to overcome the inherant weakness of dark lances and our inability to burst open significant quantities of armour AV12 and above.

Overall the Barons list in its various configurations at 1750 this year has gone 10 wins and 6 losses or just over 60% winning ratio. It's not as high as I hoped for really and I didn't really achieve what I wanted to with it. Still there is always next year.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content





Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kenny3760 goes to War   Kenny3760 goes to War - Page 2 I_icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
Kenny3760 goes to War
Back to top 
Page 2 of 3Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Kenny3760 goes to X-Legion
» Kenny3760 V Orks 1500 points

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

COMMORRAGH TACTICA

 :: Drukhari Tactics
-
Jump to: