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DeathGlam
Hellion
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PostSubject: Special Characters   Special Characters I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 06 2013, 15:06

Hi, im still in the process of deciding on a full theme for my DE, just wanted to get some advice on the various DE SC from the veterans and more experianced players then me, as i would like to include one of them in my planned army but they are all so nice and each one would slightly change my army build in gameplay and collection of models.


Lelith Hesperax - love the model and the fluff but looks a little costly and potentially to easy to kill in the PA dominated gaming scene we all normally have to compete in.

Duke Sliscus - probably my favourite in the fluff and easy enough to convert a cool model for him.

Urien Rakarth - great model and really love his Tau story in the codex.

Drazhar - seems like he could be fun but really old model that i was not a fan of when i last played regular about 8/9 years ago, so would need to convert my own or find an alternative model, which could be tricky.

They are the four im most interested in, so any advice on how they play & how best to build an army around them would be fantastic as i decided to not do my Baron Hellion army for now.

Should add my local gaming scene does not seem to be to brutal in terms of builds but would like to be semi-competative in the fun way DE seem to be able to manage.


Thanks for any help that can be offered.





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Andalit
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PostSubject: Re: Special Characters   Special Characters I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 06 2013, 15:39

Hello and welcome xD

I would strongly recomend that you read: Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide - the final cut

As a fairly new DE player myself i will have to say that this is one of the best DE guides!
Covers all models, including the SC you ask about Smile

You will find it a bit further down in this Tactics section Smile
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DeathGlam
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PostSubject: Re: Special Characters   Special Characters I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 06 2013, 15:53

Thanks, i read that last week but must of missed the SC bit, feel really stupid now. Smile
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Mngwa
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PostSubject: Re: Special Characters   Special Characters I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 06 2013, 16:28

Those four are just my favourites too, but Drazhar is rather expensive, and Lelith with low T, I have been sliding to taking an Urien with my archon. Gives wracks as troops, too, and that is good Smile
Oh and btw, Plastikente has a great guide, yes, but it doesnt include specials yet. I recommend the tactica (too).
http://thedarkcity.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Eldar_Tactica
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Cavash
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PostSubject: Re: Special Characters   Special Characters I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 06 2013, 18:31

Hello, and welcome to Commorragh.

Just for ease of posting Il'll put the characters in order of my preference with my reasons for it.

First is Duke Sliscus. I take him to the table quite often. He is great for Wych based armies and brings a hellish extra punch with providing 3+ poisoned shooting. He isn't great for close combat, I admit, but if you have anything with multiple wounds that needs to be put down or any power armoured foes he works great with a unit of Splinter Cannon and Shardcarbine Trueborn in a Venom. There are many different unit layouts that he gos well with, but this is probably my favourite.

Second has to be Lelith Hesperax. Although I've only used her a couple of times I have always found that she fulfils the roll of providing an extra number of attacks for when youjust have to put that one squad down! I tend to use her with something with a higher armour value than Wyches or start her with a Haemie to get the FNP save. She is a bit costly for what she does, but I like her nonetheless. (In my opinion the model is hideous, though. Razz )

At third comes Urien Rakarth. He's situational and best suited for a Coven army. I like the benefit he can give to Grotesques but I would rather spend Urien's points on something else. I find that other Special Characters are just more effective.

Last is Drazhar. Yeah, he's cool, but I'd rather have a whole squad of Incubi for his price instead of having him doing his dancy thing and become a fire magnet. I like the fluff, I'm just not a fan of Drazhar on the tabletop.

I hope this helped. Smile



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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Special Characters   Special Characters I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 06 2013, 19:16

Lelith - there is some pain tokens trick that you can use with her.

Start her with a wracks unit in venom and pick 2 or more wyches units in raiders with haemys atached.

On their own they are just feel no pain wyches and Lelith. When Lelith joins either unit they gain Furious Charge which is very important for Lelith. And dont fool yourself, she is very survivable. Between her shardnet and impaler, crazy weapon skill and invul with FnP she can survive a lot.

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DeathGlam
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PostSubject: Re: Special Characters   Special Characters I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 06 2013, 19:33

Thanks for the advice guys, giving me plenty to think about, will have to try and get chance to write out an army list or two soon.
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Aschen
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PostSubject: Re: Special Characters   Special Characters I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 07 2013, 08:55

I personally use Duke Sliscus in a raider w/ 9 Warriors and splinter racks. Doles out a lot of harshness
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sgb69
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PostSubject: Re: Special Characters   Special Characters I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 07 2013, 09:41

Lelith performed pretty well for me in 5th edition. In 6th, she's got look out sir to protect her a bit more and her armor piercing ability matters a lot more.

She kinda likes to pop up on one flank of the enemy and roll up the side, murderizing whatever's available. That said, she can be overkill in a few situations. Not to mention that she kills Ork Boyz exactly as well as she kills Marines. A little weird there.

Also, Draz's old model... I'd love to get my hands on one. Not having much luck though.

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Special Characters   Special Characters I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 07 2013, 12:28

@sgb69 wrote:
Also, Draz's old model... I'd love to get my hands on one. Not having much luck though.

Try GW mail order - he is direct only but i can see him on the web store

For the special HQ's... i have tried them all at some stage, and most of them in 6th (bar decapitator and urien)

Vect - nasty man. Yeah the AP3 sucks, but preferred enemy and fearless now confer and make who ever he joins just mean. Seize on a 4+ is tasty as well. Add him to short range or assault forces... harlequins are very nice for him as they cover the AP2 thing thanks to rending while he grants them rerolls vs everyone and gives them fearless!

Drazhar - i converted mine and am glad i did so! 6th saw him get much better, able to duke it out with the best of them and survive. Darting strike is less good now due to the pile in moves so he can't avoid being hit but the fact you can pick out the scary guys with AP2 weapons and kill them before they fight means he is much more durable then before.

The Duke - i like him less now. His poison boost is nice, the deep strike can be useful but the drugs roll took a hit thanks to the changes to assault in general. Still a solid choice but less of an easy 'yes please!' option. He does do well in assault thanks to his pseudo rending weapons.

The Baron - still the gold star HQ. Cheap, bonus to go first, hit and run, stealth phantasm launcher and a sky board... awesome. I am running him with harlies at present but most swear by beast packs. A hellion star with the pain token shuffle can also work. When in doubt - he is my go to guy, If i could take him off the sky board or at least be given the option of with or without i would never have a list without him!

Lelith - got better thanks to a number of assault changes but is still pretty pricey. She comes into her own with 2 pain tokens and is suprisingly durable between LOS, WS9, -1 enemy attack and a 3++ - then potentially FNP. The grey area around her penetrating blade rule is also hilarious when a TO rules your way! Were she 25-50 points cheaper then she would be golden.

Malys - Often overlooked, her cheap price, solid archon stats and 2 unique abilities make her a good option. The redeploy option helps when you want to mess with the enemy while her unit becoming immune to psychic powers makes some psychic heavy forces cry. Laugh off living lightning? yes please!

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PostSubject: Re: Special Characters   Special Characters I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 10 2013, 13:05

Thanks guys, i think im looking to experiment with one of the listed characters possibly now seeing Lady Malys as an option to, with the second HQ being a Haemonculus with a Webway Portal as that just looks to much fun not to try.
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PostSubject: Re: Special Characters   Special Characters I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 10 2013, 13:28

Malys is a hidden gem... Very useful when going first to mess with enemy deployment. The psychic immunity is also fantastic... Just remember you can't cast blessing from allied farseers on the unit!

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PostSubject: Re: Special Characters   Special Characters I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 10 2013, 13:37

Another quick question guys, if im using the Webway Portal idea, would it work if i decided to run minimal or no Dedicated Transports, the general idea of the army is one of the SC plus the Haemonculus with a unit of Grots, a couple of big units of Kabalite Warriors and 2 or 3 units of Reavers?

Again im not playing in a uber competative enviroment but any advice or tips on if that idea is crazy or not plus if you think it might work what else you would put in the army list and which SC you think it would favour?

Thanks

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PostSubject: Re: Special Characters   Special Characters I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 10 2013, 13:45

The main issue will be that we get so much fire power both AT and AI from our vehicles at a very low price.

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PostSubject: Re: Special Characters   Special Characters I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 10 2013, 15:26

Would the extra number of Kabalite Warriors not help with the AI, whilst the Reavers could be the anti mech with Blasters or Heat Lances?
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PostSubject: Re: Special Characters   Special Characters I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 10 2013, 17:38

still not preferrable. The greatness of our transports is range (36") for splinter cannons or dark lances, while moving them. If you have either of those options on a kabalite squad they cant move so they lose out on what should be one of our strengths....mobility.

Though reavers and ravagers for anti tank should cover it. For long range anti infantry you cant beat a venom though.

Oh, and the reason I came on this thread:

Urien- He is basically a Coven version of the Duke. He is supposed to be used kind of like a tank beause of the regen wounds thing and has a toughness of 5. Again like the Duke he does a lot of utility... Makes wracks Troops, boost grotesques strength, and gives pain tokens at the start of the game, his 3+ flesh gaunt is pretty decent too, can be great in certain situations... His boost to grotesques really pushes them to the next level though. Ive had great success with him starting in a group of 4 grotesques backed up by another CC unit, of maybe an archon or succubus.

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PostSubject: Re: Special Characters   Special Characters I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 10 2013, 18:00

Ok thanks, will see about working in a couple of Venoms in to my idea then, thanks for the help and more info on Urien.

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PostSubject: Re: Special Characters   Special Characters I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 11 2013, 01:47

Webway Portal lists got hit pretty hard by a few things over the years.

In the old 'dex, units stayed in the portal until it was deployed. Vehicles could pass through it. Portals could be taken on almost any squad sargent. You could assault out of them. You could reserve more than half your units.

The list goes on. There were also some drawbacks, but, really, they were negligible in comparison.

In 6th... yeah. It becomes less a "I can dedicate my entire list to this gimmick" and a lot more "this is a Rhino alternative for a handful of units."

There are some pretty long and detailed threads on this forum about making it work.

Large blobs of Warriors and Wyches become slightly more attractive options. Hellions and Reavers are nice for being able to fly over enemy units that try to surround the portal.

Some TO's in the past have ruled that your portal has to be flat so that the enemy jump infantry and skimmers can land on top of it to prevent the portal from working. Watch out for that.

So... I'm thinking turns 1 and 2 should have some shooting on the board to eliminate enemy squads that would melt your incoming blobs of dudes.

1 portal or 2?

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PostSubject: Re: Special Characters   Special Characters I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 11 2013, 13:48

@sgb69 wrote:
Some TO's in the past have ruled that your portal has to be flat so that the enemy jump infantry and skimmers can land on top of it to prevent the portal from working.

That's just mental. The official GW model is a hemisphere! So a TO is telling me that I can't use the correct model in a game?

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PostSubject: Re: Special Characters   Special Characters I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 11 2013, 14:40

I think im going to try using Urien and go the coven heavy route for the WP system, plenty of conversion potential that way.
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PostSubject: Re: Special Characters   Special Characters I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 11 2013, 18:25

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@sgb69 wrote:
Some TO's in the past have ruled that your portal has to be flat so that the enemy jump infantry and skimmers can land on top of it to prevent the portal from working.

That's just mental. The official GW model is a hemisphere! So a TO is telling me that I can't use the correct model in a game?

Also isnt it considered impassable terrain rules wise??? So if you land on it... your dead... good going TOs...

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PostSubject: Re: Special Characters   Special Characters I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 12 2013, 09:15

Technically, I think skimmers can land on top of impassable terrain if the model actually can be placed there. Landing a skimmer (unless it's a really big one) on it wouldn't stop models from emerging from it, tho, as long as they can end their movement more than 1'' away from it (measured from the edge of the portal).

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PostSubject: Re: Special Characters   Special Characters I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 12 2013, 19:10

Ok going yo try and do a list later tonight but think im going to try and build a WP list with the HQ being either Lady Malys/Duke Sliscus/Drazhar plus a couple of Haemonculus one or both of which will have a WP.
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PostSubject: Re: Special Characters   Special Characters I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 12 2013, 22:20

It is pretty mental, but RAW you can land on it. The TO's ruling was no moving to within an inch of an enemy model at any point during your move, so one Landspeeder is/was able to easily shut down a portal.

Eh, rules lawyering for advantage. Another reason to use Jetbikes, Hellions, or Reavers from a Portal.

Let us know how it goes Glam. Honestly, I'd love to make WWPs work, if only to toy with new ideas.

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PostSubject: Re: Special Characters   Special Characters I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 13 2013, 16:03

Im in the process of slowly working out a list that involves Lady Malys, just wondered what you guys thought was the best option for an escort for her that can hopefully do some close combat damage, either a squad of 4 Incubi in a Venom or a bigger squad of Harlequins on foot?

Second one is my prefered choice due to fluff reasons but don't want to buy Harlequins and spend ages painting them only for them to fail terribly at the role i have in mind.

Thanks for any help that can be offered.
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