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 Prepping for BAO 1750

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Vasara
egorey
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egorey
The Duck of Death
egorey

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PostSubject: Prepping for BAO 1750    Prepping for BAO 1750  I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 25 2013, 15:53


So we have been testing two lists that incorporate the deatjhstar beastpack. Now the beastpack as designed by Ryan and Sean pretty much ignored flyers and went for the kill against ground forces. We ttryed three games with this type of list.

HQ: Baron Sathonyx - 105 [DE]
HQ: Asdrubael Vect - 240 [DE]
HQ: Eldrad Ulthran - 210 [EL]
Elite: 3 True Born - 2 Splinter Cannons - 56 [DE]
Elite: 3 True Born - 2 Splinter Cannons - 56 [DE]
Troop: 14 Wyches - Haywire, Hekatrix PGL, Venom Blade - 195 [DE]
Troop: 10 Warriors - 1 Splinter Cannon - 100 [DE]
Troop: 10 Warriors - 1 Splinter Cannon - 100 [DE]
Troop: 3 Guardian Jetbikes - 66 [EL]
Troop: 3 Guardian Jetbikes - 66 [EL]
FA: 5 Beast Masters - 5 Kymerra, 8 Razorwings - 240 [DE]
HS: 1 Talos Pain Engine - Splinter Cannon, TL Liquifier - 105 [DE]
HS: 1 Talos Pain Engine - Splinter Cannon, TL Liquifier - 105 [DE]
Fortification: Aegis Defense Line - Quad Gun - 100

Everything in the list worked well but against flyer sopam armioes, despite some very good saves it did suffer. We fell flat against Necrons with Wraiths - although beastpacks can compete to an extent - and we suffered against tri-drake and stormtalon list despite the 2+ saves in each corner of the pack.

Sp we started testing a different approach ...

Eldrad Uthran (Divination/Telepathy) - 210
Asrubel Vect - 240
Baron Sathonyx - 105

3 Truborn - 2 Splinter Cannons - 56

5 Kabalite Warriors, 1 Blaster, Venom, 2 Splinter Cannons - 125
5 Kabalite Warriors, 1 Blaster, Venom, 2 Splinter Cannons - 125
5 Wyches, Haywires, Venom, 2 Splinter Cannons - 125
3 Guardian Jetbikes - 66
3 Guardian Jetbikes - 66

Beastmaster Pack - 5 Beast Masters, 5 Kymerra, 8 Razorwings - 240
5 Swooping Hawks - Exarch, Sunrifle, Skyleap - 147

Razorwing Fighter - 145

Aegis Defense Line - Quad Autocannons - 100

TOTAL POINTS: 1750

Now the Hawks are an irritant and they are untouchable linebreakers that are great against geq, so-so against meq but can damage vehicles in a pinch. Not that we haven't got other answers. The Truborn and a squad of warriors generally reside behind the Aegis. In one game however we pout the Hawks there and created a no vehicle zone ... they can fly out and destroy tanks and man the gun ... a use that is actually quite effective. This list has more flexibility and performed better against those ubiquitous flyer lists.

The tournament is fast approaching ... any suggestions for either list?
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Vasara
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PostSubject: Re: Prepping for BAO 1750    Prepping for BAO 1750  I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 25 2013, 19:03

Haven't played a list like this but in the second list it strikes me odd that you now have targets for both torrent and antitank guns. How are they going to help you against hell drakes or Necron flyers? or IG artillery for that matter. I think that is why the original list has only infantry. And did'n it include Cronos instead of talos?

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egorey
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PostSubject: Re: Prepping for BAO 1750    Prepping for BAO 1750  I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 25 2013, 21:46

Actually Sean's list does not use any engines while Ryan's had both Cronos and two Talaoi and Maugan Ra. So both differ a bit. I found it hard now to just ignore flyers. There are more and more in tournament lists. One or two I can deal with. More than that and they become problematic.

You do have targets in the second list for AT ... but they can buffer for the troops, they have decent firepower and the razor can do some AA work. I find it has its strengths as well. Three Venoms are annoying. The Razor is just the best we have as a flyer for the price - not spectacular but ... I could refigure and use scourges and a nightwing but there is not too much diffr=ernce there and I like the swooping hawks in this list.
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Flayed_Heart_Kabal
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PostSubject: Re: Prepping for BAO 1750    Prepping for BAO 1750  I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 26 2013, 14:56

I'm going to be at the BAO as well (only using Chaos Marines). Why do you have Vect running with the beasts? All he does is slow them down, same with eldrad. You might as well take a blob of warriors, and put eldrad with them, so he can cast Invisibility or whatnot on the beasts.

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egorey
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PostSubject: Re: Prepping for BAO 1750    Prepping for BAO 1750  I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 26 2013, 23:53


This is the standard loadout for the beast pack. In 6ed they are not slowed much as Vect has fleet anyway and the charge distance does not vary. So the beast pack can move 12" and Vect can end up at the back. He is there for his 2+save and his combat prowess. If you are not familiar with the deathstar beastpack and how it functions you can google it easily enough.

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Irakunar Thrax
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PostSubject: Re: Prepping for BAO 1750    Prepping for BAO 1750  I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 27 2013, 06:37

I personally think there is too many points in the HQ Section. At 550 Pts. it's about 30 % of your army...

Don't get me wrong, they are all good choices, but i still think it's a bit much.
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Vasara
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PostSubject: Re: Prepping for BAO 1750    Prepping for BAO 1750  I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 27 2013, 07:21

@Irakunar Thrax wrote:
I personally think there is too many points in the HQ Section. At 550 Pts. it's about 30 % of your army...

Don't get me wrong, they are all good choices, but i still think it's a bit much.

All those characters are needed to make this list work. Vect gives the pack (along with his 2++) prefered enemy and fearless. Eldrad tries to make then invisible for 2+ cover and WS1 opponents. Eldrad is not joining the beasts. Eldrad also makes the beast slow that they are more easily in Eldrad range.

I definietly llike to know how your tournament went when its done.
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Irakunar Thrax
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PostSubject: Re: Prepping for BAO 1750    Prepping for BAO 1750  I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 27 2013, 08:11

i see, in that case it's a very interesting combination. I have little experience with Eldrad so my mistake then Wink

Looking forward to see how this works out as well Smile
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Prepping for BAO 1750    Prepping for BAO 1750  I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 27 2013, 12:43

How are you finding objective games with that second list? It seems quite light on troops. If I saw that list I'd concentrate on ignoring/avoiding the beasts and taking out the troops

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egorey
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PostSubject: Re: Prepping for BAO 1750    Prepping for BAO 1750  I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 27 2013, 12:45


Three troops are coming in from reserve - threy are mobile and can easily hisde and endure a little dakka. Five troops are fine. I've seen similar lists running just four troops.


Until a new codex comes out Eldrad is quite possibly the best force multiplier in the game with mastery level 3 and 4 rolls on the table. We just made an adjustment to the list as well. Nightwing Interceptors will be allowed at the tournament and it is one of the best flyers in the game right now so ...

HQ: Baron Sathonyx - 105 [DE]
HQ: Asdrubael Vect - 240 [DE]
HQ: Eldrad Ulthran - 210 [EL]
Elite: 3 True Born - 2 Splinter Cannons - 56 [DE]
Troop: 5 Kabalite Warriors, 1 Blaster, Venom, 2 Splinter Cannons - 125 [DE]
Troop: 5 Kabalite Warriors, 1 Blaster, Venom, 2 Splinter Cannons - 125 [DE]
Troop: 5 Wyches, Haywires, Venom, 2 Splinter Cannons - 125 [DE]
Troop: 3 Guardian Jetbikes - 66 [EL]
Troop: 3 Guardian Jetbikes - 66 [EL]
FA: 5 Beast Masters - 5 Kymerra, 8 Razorwings - 240 [DE]
FA: Nightwing Interceptor - 145 [EL]
HS: Razorwing Jetfighter - 145 [DE]
Fortification: Aegis Defense Line - Quad Autocannons - 100

TOTAL POINTS: 1748

Our team decided that as nice as swooping hawks are in the list for line breaker and irritation, a nightwing is clearly superior. The list is now quite mobile and has a nice balance about it desite the rather expensive deathstar.
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Lord Kesharq
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PostSubject: Re: Prepping for BAO 1750    Prepping for BAO 1750  I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 27 2013, 13:06

drop the razor and take another Nightwing ^^. also good luck

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Loses: 7 scratch 
Draws: 1 study
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Prepping for BAO 1750    Prepping for BAO 1750  I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 27 2013, 13:27

@egorey wrote:
Three troops are coming in from reserve - threy are mobile and can easily hisde and endure a little dakka. Five troops are fine. I've seen similar lists running just four troops.

It's not so much the number of troop units as the durability of them. 5 T3 models in a paper airplane would not last long in my local meta. Venom would be exploded as soon as it was in LOS, possibly taking 1 or 2 troops with it and the survivors, assuming they don't break, would be easy pickings. Would depend on the terrain and deployment but I'd be nervous.

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Prepping for BAO 1750  YhBv3Wk
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egorey
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PostSubject: Re: Prepping for BAO 1750    Prepping for BAO 1750  I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 27 2013, 13:49

I would love to take another Nightwing but that would not be legal.

I share your concerns over the troops but with careful movement and placement I'm optimistic with the three coming from reserves.
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Lord Kesharq
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PostSubject: Re: Prepping for BAO 1750    Prepping for BAO 1750  I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 27 2013, 17:11

why would it not be legal mate? sorry if i missed something above, am lacking coffee (or should that be souls hmmm)

Also i have to agree with Count Adhemar, if your not careful with those 3 venoms then those same units are going to be quickly downed, defo if its a skilled player who knows what there doing.

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7th ed score:

Wins: 4 Cool 
Loses: 7 scratch 
Draws: 1 study
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egorey
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PostSubject: Re: Prepping for BAO 1750    Prepping for BAO 1750  I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 27 2013, 18:02

I only get one FA slot for Eldar.

The nature of this type of list ... it is just hard to fit in durable troops if I want at least 5 slots. I fully expect to lose a few but I'm hoping I can take care of all of my opponent's troops. We will see.

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Lord Kesharq
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PostSubject: Re: Prepping for BAO 1750    Prepping for BAO 1750  I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 27 2013, 22:15

ah nuts....sorry lack of coffee really does keep me off the ball lol.

hmmm well in any case, at the end of the day its ur list, and i wish u luck mate. i can see it either working really well or yeah..am not going to jinx it XD

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We have come to claim your souls in the name of our every lasting glory over mankind and all the races of the stars Twisted Evil


7th ed score:

Wins: 4 Cool 
Loses: 7 scratch 
Draws: 1 study
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Flayed_Heart_Kabal
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PostSubject: Re: Prepping for BAO 1750    Prepping for BAO 1750  I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 28 2013, 17:54

Well, best of luck to you at the BAO. Your list looks pretty good overall. I'll be there, sporting dark red/silver double dragon Chaos, so I'll try to say hi if I spot you!

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Flayed_Heart_Kabal
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PostSubject: Re: Prepping for BAO 1750    Prepping for BAO 1750  I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 04 2013, 20:38

How'd you wind up doing? I finished pretty well, going 5-1-1 with Chaos Space Marines. I think I may have seen your army around, but I didn't see you.

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