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 Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous

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Mushkilla
Arena Champion
Mushkilla

Posts : 4017
Join date : 2012-07-16
Location : Toroid Arena

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PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 27 2013, 11:17

@Vasara wrote:
No they aren't You'll haave jinkafter first turn and should have cover from terrain that first turn. Spendin 20 pts o six vehicles costs as much as 2 new vehicles.

This, raiders are a bargain but loses value quickly the more upgrades you add to them. Personally I just run them naked.

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Last edited by Mushkilla on Thu Feb 28 2013, 08:11; edited 2 times in total
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RabbitMaster
Hellion
RabbitMaster

Posts : 56
Join date : 2013-02-06
Location : Marseille

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PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 27 2013, 12:14

Personally, I just add them a night shield (i love this upgrade). 10-man warriors squad also gets a weapons rack on their raider but other units never get anything else (some upgrades are useful, but as Mushkilla suggested, raider are quite expensives even naked for a such fragile vehicle).
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Crazy_Ivan
Wych
Crazy_Ivan

Posts : 515
Join date : 2012-04-10
Location : Wellingborough

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PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 27 2013, 16:07

It took me ages to find a list and play-style that suited me, if you don't go first with dark eldar expect to loose a couple of vehicles is one of those things unfortunately.
I tend to deploy my venoms in front of my raiders, that way you give you raiders and ravagers the cover save while still having the venoms 5++. Remember to take your cover from the direction the blast was fired from not the centre of the blast (unless its a barrage weapon).
Also try to be a bit more aggressive, i run 2 squads of wyches in almost every list whether they be larger squads in raiders or 5-man squads in venoms, send them flat out into the enemies lines near their vehicles, they will have to shoot they. If they ignore them or even if only 3-4 survive they will wreck vehicles like no-one business.
i also run a unit of 4 grots with my archon or vect, send them flat out and its the same thing again. If they ignore them they will trash anything they hit.
I personally would stick with dark eldar and not take allies until you knpw how to play them, learning one codex of units is hard enough let alone 2!

Also at 2000pts try taking vect you will almost always go first! he steals initiative on a 4 Twisted Evil not to mention all the other stuff he has.
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shadowseercB
Wych
shadowseercB

Posts : 550
Join date : 2012-10-21

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PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 27 2013, 19:27

Because so many of my opponents have wicked range with weapons that can destroy my vehicles I would start at their maximum distance so they could not harm my vehicle if I go second. A major problem happens is that my vehicles are so far away many times that when I move in to fire the next round I dont get much done especially because my crew members have 18-24" weapons range. How do you guys deal with that? Start as close as possible? Start in weapons range? Start as far as possible?

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mug7703
Sybarite
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Posts : 409
Join date : 2012-09-19
Location : Brighton

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PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 27 2013, 22:36

I've never played such a large game but I've heard DE excel at games of around 1,500 or less.
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shadowseercB
Wych
shadowseercB

Posts : 550
Join date : 2012-10-21

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PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 28 2013, 01:56

Played 1500 point game today, I tabled the Dark Angel I played against. I also used my good dice that I tested out of my pile. It was really refreshing to have so many amazing rolls rather than the months of 1-3s on the dice. Its better to test the dice you have rather than buy boxes more until you have dice you like. I dont believe in superstition.

I used MOST peoples advice as closely as I could. I even went back to basics of how I love to play my army.

My list from the game today is..

HQ:
170
Archon-huskblade, Ghostplate armour, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Shadow Field

Elite:
192
Incubi x6- Raider

173
Kabalite Trueborn x4- Blasters x4, Venom + Extra cannon

Troops:
125
Kabalite Warriors x5- Blaster, Venom + Extra Cannon

125
Kabalite Warriors x5- Blaster, Venom + Extra Cannon

175
Kabalite Warriors x10- Blaster, Splinter Cannon, Raider

175
Kabalite Warriors x10- Blaster, Splinter Cannon, Raider

160
Wyches x10- Raider

Heavy:
105
Ravager

105
Ravager


Hows the list look?

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ravengoescaw
Heamonculi
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Location : Corvallis, OR

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PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 28 2013, 10:48

Well it worked for you and that is truly all that matters. IMHO I don't like incubi to play with. But if you are using them and are liking them/finding they are worth their pts. Then I can not gain say.

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mug7703
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Posts : 409
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Location : Brighton

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PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 28 2013, 11:34

@shadowseercB wrote:
Played 1500 point game today, I tabled the Dark Angel I played against. I also used my good dice that I tested out of my pile. It was really refreshing to have so many amazing rolls rather than the months of 1-3s on the dice. Its better to test the dice you have rather than buy boxes more until you have dice you like. I dont believe in superstition.

I used MOST peoples advice as closely as I could. I even went back to basics of how I love to play my army.

Hows the list look?

Looks good! So much better than your list from earlier on in this thread. I guess you can tell the difference when you play. Still, I'd get an extra Ravager in there if you can but that's just me.

Incubi can be a good little assault squad but I'd keep them cheap. Have 4 in a Venom with the lord. Being able to hide their transport easier than a Raider and having a 5+ save from T1 is a big boon. I'd also drop the wych squad down to 8 and have a Hekatrix w/VB (or agoniser if you prefer and have the points). If it were me I'd also run the wyches with a Haemonculus w/LFG. He gives them FNP and can absorb their overwatch fire. - They both disembark, Haemon separates from unit but leaves PT with wyches, fires his LFG, charges first, takes overwatch and then the wyches charge. This mitigates two of their big weaknesses to some extent. Weak armour and vulnerable to overwatch. If the Raider goes down he can leave take a wound as well potentially saving a wych.

- I'd also say ghostplate armour is a waste of points if you've got a SF. Once that field is down, he's pretty much toast regardless. Also, if you're taking a HB, why not take a ST?
- Blasters on the large warrior squads aren't as effective as they generally stay at range and are focussed for an AI role.

Here are two potential variations: The first gives you an extra Ravager and a VB on the Archon for threatening high T opponents. The second gives you a Haemonculi to go with the wyches OR the Archon and Incubi depending on your foe and whether you role a 6 for CD.

First list:
Spoiler:
 

Second list:
Spoiler:
 
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shadowseercB
Wych
shadowseercB

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PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 28 2013, 18:29

Incubi are my fav next to the reavers. Just wondering though what would you suggest having instead of incubi? I find having two melee units works best for me.

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Crazy_Ivan
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 28 2013, 18:49

I field incubi or grots both do an equally good job when ran with an archon and PGL
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sgb69
Kabalite Warrior
sgb69

Posts : 186
Join date : 2013-03-02
Location : Redwood Curtain

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PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 04 2013, 21:15

Grots are alright, though they kinda like paling around with a Haemy for the 2nd liquifier gun.

I'd suggest dropping one Incubus for a pair of nightshields, once you get your distances down and premeasuring becomes a quick habit.

On the Warriors, those nightshields would help you stay out of effective range for most guns while still shooting in the 24" to 19" mark. On Ravagers, they help a bit with avoiding Autocannons and lascannons on turn 1 or 2. Less so when those tanks move up, or if they're all clumped together.

Those Wyches...

I want to get them Haywire Grenades and somehow get their boat Nightshields and Aethersails or Retrofire Jets. Too often mine end up going after tanks rather than infantry.

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Seshiru
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PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 06 2013, 15:48

Incubi are a solid choice you just have to be really aggressive with them (well they are dark Eldar!) the big complaint most people have for using then is they charge a unit kill it and then get shot up, so you have to figure out how to work that to your advantage.
When you consolidate move your incubi forward and your archon back. Run enough if them that your opponent will need to consentrate a large amount of fire power to kill them all ( saving the rest of your army ) or run a small number so that you can get locked in combat . Basically you have to figure out which of those methods you want to go with which is what you will find over and over with dark Eldar.
Wyches, give 15 on foot a try if you find the unit is being wiped from raider explosion.
Bastion can be huge to as its a large line of sight blocker you can hide a skimmers behind for turn 1.

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sgb69
Kabalite Warrior
sgb69

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PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 07 2013, 05:22

One thing that helped a friend of mine acclimate to his army better was to play a few games with a marine loaner army.

His experience with them helped him realized just what his Orks did better or worse than roughly half the codexes out there.

Also, sometimes it can take a little short break and let the new information and advice people have given you process.

If your Wych Raiderss are exploding too often for your tastes, reserve them & kit them with Aethersails or Retros. 1 turn of being shot at with a 4+ save is better than a turn with a 5+ and a turn with a 4+.

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