THE DARK CITY
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.



 
HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityRegisterLog in

 

 Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous

Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2  Next
AuthorMessage
shadowseercB
Wych
shadowseercB

Posts : 550
Join date : 2012-10-21

Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous Empty
PostSubject: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 25 2013, 03:31

I have been playing 40k for 6 months now. For the past 2 months I have been on a serious loosing streak. Often times getting almost tabled in the first round. Im a bit fed up. This is my first army and I know its the most difficult, at least thats what everyone tells me, but is anyone else having this experience? At first i was thinking it was me, people tell me its the army, maybe, maybe not. Especially if I dont go first. What do you guys think?

In 2v2 I have a perfect record with wins, go figure.

Thanks


EDIT: I try to make a "uncatered list", something that would work in tournaments. A major problem is the blast markers.
Back to top Go down
Zaakath
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 98
Join date : 2012-09-28
Location : Pennsylvania

Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous Empty
PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 25 2013, 03:53

Give us a basic list that you use at a typical points value.

Also try to give us a rundown of common opponents and terrain on boards (heavy, medium, light, etc).

Do your dice hate you?
Back to top Go down
Massaen
Klaivex
Massaen

Posts : 2268
Join date : 2011-07-05
Location : Western Australia

Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous Empty
PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 25 2013, 04:32

Agreed. A points value, list and broad opponent lists is a good start.

2v2 games are fun but IMO not good for developing your skill at the game as the team mate covers weaknesses in you list and play

_________________
Objective Secured - Western Australia's Premier 40k Event Organisers and Website
OBJECTIVE SECURED
Back to top Go down
http://objectivesecured.com.au/
shadowseercB
Wych
shadowseercB

Posts : 550
Join date : 2012-10-21

Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous Empty
PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 25 2013, 04:34

"Do your dice hate you?" YES, I have purchased many something like 3-4 packs of dice, they work great in the first game but after that they dont work out. I was never superstitious about anything in the past and I figured they were poorly made dice but even clear ones I roll crap. Im starting to get superstitious after all these months. I rolled 5 ones yesterday out of 8 wounds. 1s and 2s on dice are typical for me, I think i have bad karma. If I had to purchase different dice for every game I played I would be broke as would anyone else. I make most of my vehicle invul's. Other people played with my dice and rolled crazy good with them. Go figure...

I have tried allies and it doesnt work out for me, infact i do worse.
I have every unit in the game for DE in my army. Its the coolest army out there by far. The lore and models. And I like a challenge.

Typically I run.

3-4 raiders warriorsx10, sometimes wyches (I have been experimenting with haemonculus and wracks again lately, I dont like either still)

4-6 venoms with warriors and/or trueborn

Incubi (have learned to use them in such a way I get them to any point and charge first) and/or 6-9 reavers blasters (I never get these guys to do anything and if I do they die instantly.)

Raidersx3 (I have been experimenting with fliers lately.

I played eldar today for the first time, I got ripped apart. He had 48 inch and 72 inch range blast markers. Out flanking walkers, all this rediculas stuff. I couldnt hit any of them with all the shrouded and cover saves he had. The only unit I killed was the avatar. It was pretty unbelievable. Fortune is out of control good against my army.
My 3 bombers didnt do any good either. Rolled alot of 1s and 2s as usual but still when things hit they would make their cover saves so next to nothing died.

Another thing, I roll a ton of 5-6s to hit. always on splinter cannons. Rarely miss anthing. But when I wound its usually 1-2 on my rolls.

@Massaen wrote:
Agreed. A points value, list and broad opponent lists is a good start.

2v2 games are fun but IMO not good for developing your skill at the game as the team mate covers weaknesses in you list and play

Today's list worked well against chaos a few days ago. But got smashed hard by eldar.

2k

Dark Eldar/Eldar list

1962 points

HQ:
Haemonculus

Farseer, 4 powers, level 2 psycher, warding
Jetbike

Elite:
188 Kabalite Trueborn x4
Raider-night shields, flickerfield, Darklance

188 Kabalite Trueborn x4
Raider-night shields, flickerfield, Darklance

188 Kabalite Trueborn x4
Raider-night shields, flickerfield, Darklance

Troops:
110 Guardian Jetbike x5

105 Wracks x3
Venom-splinter cannon, night shield

105 Wracks x3
Venom-splinter cannon, night shield

105 Wracks x3
Venom-splinter cannon, night shield

120 Kabalite Warriors x5, 1 Blaster
Venom-splinter cannon, night shield

215 Voidraven Bomber-Shatterfield missle x2, Implosion x1, night shield, flickerfield

215 Voidraven Bomber-Shatterfield missle x2, Implosion x1, night shield, flickerfield

165 Razorwing-night shield, flickerfield

Eldar had something like

2 night spinners
3 guardian squads with rocket launchers
1 unit of walkers
10 pathfinders
Avatar
Farseer with codex powers
10 harlequin w/ shadowseer

Yesterday I barely lost to chaos. One more round and i would have won by alot of points.

He had something like

psycher
20 cultist
demons- fast attack, dont remember the name(that I waisted with splinter)

2 tactical squads

A demon on a bull that got waisted with I think a 3++

2 Heldrakes

a squad with autocannons

EDIT: The worst of any of my games happen in Hammer and Anvil

Triple posting is against the forum rules, please use the edit button in future. Thanks Smile - Mush
Back to top Go down
Skye26
Hellion
Skye26

Posts : 38
Join date : 2013-01-29

Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous Empty
PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 25 2013, 07:36

@shadowseercB wrote:

Another thing, I roll a ton of 5-6s to hit. always on splinter cannons. Rarely miss anthing. But when I wound its usually 1-2 on my rolls.
Haha tell me about it, i do exactly the same on so many occasions


I think the thing is in regards to DE being labeled as the hardest army to play is down to everything being so fragile, the entire army is a glass hammer and you really need to know your enemy's army well to exploit their weakness, and do it quickly (Knowledge which new players are ofc going to lack).
So maybe try reading up on your opponents army, having an idea were your enemy is going to move units and what there targets will be can help you get better positioning, I've lost count how many times I've managed to isolate parts of my opponents army and trick them into attacking things which they should have ignored.

The good old saying "Know thy enemy" really is golden with DE imo

_________________

Like a Star @ heaven Blah blah woof woof! Like a Star @ heaven
Back to top Go down
Darklight
Sybarite
Darklight

Posts : 384
Join date : 2011-05-27
Location : Stavanger

Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous Empty
PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 25 2013, 08:26

I would say your probllem is alphastrike, so I would drop the flyers for Ravagers.

Anyway target priority and know before you start moving what you want to shoot with what. And always be sure to have enough to take out certain stuff.

I always position my stuff to be able to target differant targets if I get lucky/unlucky with the dices.

If I way demons I want to kill those flamers. Yes I might have to use way to much to target them, but I dont count on luck to win my matches. I have won alot of matches where I have rolled crap, and I have to say I have been more unlucky in 6th ed than before. But I have managed to win.

I would say to you as I did to a friend that struggled alot, play the mission, not the oponent. (even tho I focus on tabling but thats another mather). Anyway he have gone from struggling, to winning almost every match after that. In my last turnement a few weeks back, I had horrible dices, but after a narrow defeat in my first match I started playing the mission, ended up winning the turnement in the end. Again a win on tiebreaker, but whatever I won :p Had bad dices in all games exceept the last one.

_________________
Plays Dark Eldar, Eldar and Harlequins.
If you are from norway, check out www.drittunger.no
Back to top Go down
Gobsmakked
Rumour Scourge
Gobsmakked

Posts : 3274
Join date : 2011-05-14
Location : Vancouver, BC

Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous Empty
PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 25 2013, 08:29

One of my recent games saw me roll four 4 consecutive 1's to hit with the Dark Lances on my 4 Raiders. The next turn I hit, but rolled 1's to wound. My dice hate me when it comes to DL's, they always have and always will. That's just life.

I am no tactical genius in 40K, but I don't think there is anything in particular wrong with your latest list, certainly not enough to get beaten as badly or as early as you state. Although, I would question the value of multiple, small squads of vanilla Trueborn, they are our bread and butter for special weapons teams. Squads of 3 Wracks won't last long, either, in or out of the boat.

How are you playing your army? Are you pairing up your units against your opponent's, or are you massing them against one or two points in his army? Do you prioritize what are the biggest threats to you? And are you moving your forces forward fairly quickly, or do they tend to remain static?

DE excel at delivering a hammer punch, using their speed and firepower to rock select units, get them back on their heels and keep them off balance.

Edit - I would agree with Darklight, switch out your flyers for Ravagers, and give one of them Disintegrators. Use the points you save to beef up some of your smaller squads and/or get more special weapons teams.
Back to top Go down
Rathstar
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 55
Join date : 2012-07-11
Location : UK

Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous Empty
PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 25 2013, 17:00

@Gobsmakked wrote:
Although, I would question the value of multiple, small squads of vanilla Trueborn, they are our bread and butter for special weapons teams. Squads of 3 Wracks won't last long, either, in or out of the boat.

The trueborn all have blasters. It's not written in the list, but I can tell from the points cost that they do.

I partially agree with comment on small wracks squads. I think one or two units are useful to get another venom on the field, but after that they are less places for them to hide and small troop squads die quickly if the enemy needs to stop them claiming objectives.

Now on to shadowseercB's list:

Looking at the list in general I agree with Darklight that the alpha strike (or early firepower) is definitely lacking with all the heavy support in reserve. 30% of your army is off the board turn 1, so if you go second you can be outnumbered 3:2 for two turns - I can imagine when the flyers turn up there might not be much for them to join Sad

Next you have stacked upgrades on already expensive very fragile vehicles. At the end of the day an av10 open topped skimmer is not going to be made tough. Transports should try to be in cover on turn 1, and moving any other turn, so lose all the flickerfields (apart from on the flyers, as it saves them having to evade).

Next are nightshields. They have more use than flickerfields, but only if you have an army which is going to stay back. Being practically a 100% shooting force this is possible, however you have trueborn with 18" range weapons. If the trueborn get in weapon range the nightshields on those raiders may do little (iy may occassionally save you from some rapid fire bolter shots). Also because of the movement of flyers they normally can't stay at long range for long, so nightshields are iffy on them as well.

Talking of the flyers implosion missiles look good on paper, but are very poor in actual use, mainly because at their points value they are very expensive, and are already on an expensive (for DE) platform.

Trueborn with Blasters were a staple of 6th edition, however they are very expensive at 27 pts for a model that dies to shooting as easy as a 5 point guardsmen, and has a more fragile transport meaning they are more likely to die to a vehicle explosion. With the change to vehicles in 6th edition vehicles are weaker (they can be killed by losing hull points), because of this you will probably see less vehciles, plus DE have haywire grenades which make killing a vehicle in close combat easy (particularly with the new rules to hit moving vehicles in combat). All this means that you can reduce the amount of trueborns with blasters you use, and reinvest it in more firepower. Plus you can put haywire grenades on the trueborn and elsewhere to help against tanks.

Eldar jetbikes do not do much apart from zip around and zoom to claim objectives on turn 5+. I was about to suggest you either reduce them to 3 models or increase them to 2 units of 3, and then I saw the farseer and realised the jetbikes are there to give the farseer somewhere to go. The farseer is extremely expensive, so I would suggest two options, either keep him on a bike but keep him cheap and find a better unit for him to join (I suggest beastmasters, but that would mean I would also suggest you use the Baron), or use Eldrad who's miles better but cheaper than your farseer. Eldrad's one weakness is that he's slow (ie. same as any foot Eldar), so I think you should be able to afford 20 warriors with 2 splinter cannons for him to join. I'll come onto later where I think you can easyily save 200 pts for this unit.

Going back to the jetbikes, I think you should reduce them to 3 models. You don't need 2 units of 3 as you already have a number of cheap wrack units to hold objectives.

My last comment is on the size of your army. You have only 33 infantry/jetbike models, although you have an impressive 10 vehicles which may stretch some opponents anti tank, it is a very very low total, and is probably the biggest factor leading to the disappointing performance you have been having. I'm guessing fixing this issue will see you doing much much better.

Ok, now I'll try to tweak your list, while keeping most of the feel of it. The main changes will be a will put in a squad of wyches (accompanied by the haemonculus) with haywire grenades, swapping the farseer for eldrad, using a large squad of warriors, and while keeping all the vehicles affording a special addition at the end:

Haemy (Venom Blade) - 55 [he could have a liquifier gun instead, it's up to you]

Eldrad - 210 [he joins the large warrior squad]

3 Trueborn (2 Splinter Cannons) - 56
Venom (2nd Splinter Cannon) - 65

3 Trueborn (2 Blasters, 1 Splinter Cannon, Haywire Grenades) - 82
Raider (Dark Lance) - 60

3 Trueborn (2 Blasters, 1 Splinter Cannon, Haywire Grenades) - 82
Raider (Dark Lance) - 60

9 Wyches (Haywire Grenades, Hekatrix with Venom Blade) - 123
Raider (Weapon Choice up to you) - 60

5 Wyches with Haywire Grenades or 5 Warriors with a Blaster - 60
Venom (2nd Splinter Cannon) - 65

3 Wracks - 30
Venom (2nd Splinter Cannon) - 65

3 Wracks - 30
Venom (2nd Splinter Cannon) - 65

3 Eldar Jetbikes - 66 [these now go in reserve, and are one of your best bets for line breaker and claiming far off objectives]

20 Warriors (2 Splinter Cannons) - 200

Ravager (3 Lances) - 105

Ravager (3 Lances) - 105

Voidraven Bomber (Shatterfield missle x2, flickerfield) - 175

3 War Walkers (2 Scatter Lasers each) - 180

Now before I put the war walkers in I was at 1819 pts. The 2nd & 3rd trueborn squads having a splinter cannon rather than a 3rd blaster was me saving 10 pts to fit the war walkers, after all when you get close 1 of the trueborn will throw a haywire greande rather than firing his weapon). At 1819 pts I still had all the vehicles you had at 2000 pts (ok, slight weaker without all the upgrades), added some extra size to the army with a full wych squad and a full warrior squad (54 rather than 33 infantry/jetbikes) , and given you what I think is a better psyker. And then I've added 3 war walkers to give you much needed long range firepower, although on a weak chassis, however put them in cover (it's much easier to get 25% cover) and fortune them and you will see they are much more difficult to kill than people assume for 2 hull points

I hope this alternative list gives you food for thought, and still maintains the style of list you want to use.

The two biggest improvements in my alternative list (IMHO) is the increase in the size of the army, and the increased long ranged (over 24") firepower that you get from turn 1. You have lost out on some blaster shots (but only if you were willing to disembark the trueborns on turn 1), but you have gained 6 lances (from 2 ravagers), 6 extra splinter cannons (24 - 36 extra shots), and 24 str 6 scatter laser shots.

Rathstar

_________________
______________________________________________________________________________
My Blog: http://rathstarramblings.blogspot.co.uk/

The following quote is from around 6th edition, how have things changed Smile

@sweetbacon wrote:
You're spending 225 points on Wyches???

Wyches?!!

Why?  

Did someone threaten your family?  

Are you under duress right now?  

Blink if you are and I'll summon the authorities.
Back to top Go down
http://rathstarramblings.blogspot.co.uk/
shadowseercB
Wych
shadowseercB

Posts : 550
Join date : 2012-10-21

Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous Empty
PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 25 2013, 17:14

I just started using the flyers for 2 games, im over it again, going back to ravagers.

Now that I think about it my play style gets more and more static, perhaps out of frustration, but I move a foot typically with all vehicles and fire till I can get some of the crew within range for shots at full BS then I go 6". I find that DE have one of the worst range for special weapons out there next to Necron.

I try and use the special weapons against the heavies and everything else against infantry. But the blasters are never in range to do any good against targets they would excel against (vehicles).

I play spread out because of all of the blast templets that WILL take two vehicles out. I believe they are the greatest threat to me but are always out of reach.

Another issue is when vehicles explode. They kill every passenger. Whats odd is my wracks almost never die from that or shooting.. go figure.

Should I be turbo boosting and just get in their faces then shoot? I always get night shields and flickerfield.

Thanks, I may drop allies and going back to a full DE, list. Ill go back to ravagers for sure. I only have 1 walker I thought they are a heavy unit. I only have a few eldar units and own all of the DE units.

Eldrad codex or book powers?

List looks good ill give it a shot and will drop flicker and night shields.

Double posting is against the forum rules, please use the edit button in future. Thanks Smile - Mush
Back to top Go down
Azdrubael
Incubi
Azdrubael

Posts : 1853
Join date : 2011-11-16
Location : Russia

Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous Empty
PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 25 2013, 17:32

I think the most crucial 3 things in playing 40k is:
- deployment
- list building
- target priority

In that order.

If you will have those covered you will put a decent fight with everything, whatever army you play.
Back to top Go down
shadowseercB
Wych
shadowseercB

Posts : 550
Join date : 2012-10-21

Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous Empty
PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 25 2013, 18:49

Maybe im going about it wrong, can you give me an example of a "target priority"?

_________________
15,000 Dark Eldar
20,000 Eldar
7,000 Mechanicum
3,500 Harlequin
Back to top Go down
pantofful
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 42
Join date : 2012-10-09

Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous Empty
PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 25 2013, 19:16

target priority:

example 1: if you're playing a highly mechanized force, target things that do well against vehicles, and ignore
anti-infantry guns early. In DE's case: autocannons, war-walkers, etc... things with mid-high str
and multiple shots.

example 2: if you don't have a lot of anti tank in your army, you need to pick the most important targets to
take out early.

It's very fluid, but think about what you need to do to win, what your opponent needs to do to win, then take your assessment and prioritize the things your opponent needs.
Back to top Go down
Skulnbonz
Hekatrix
Skulnbonz

Posts : 1038
Join date : 2012-07-13
Location : Tampa

Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous Empty
PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 25 2013, 19:38

@Azdrubael wrote:
I think the most crucial 3 things in playing 40k is:
- deployment
- list building
- target priority

In that order.
.

Hmmm..

personally, i would switch list building and deployment, but they are VERY VERY close.

When teaching newer players, I always say you win or lose in one of two places... at the computer making your list, or at deployment.

If you have a crappy list, deploying it well wont help, and if you have a great list, but deploy stupidly, you are just as screwed.


But I agree with the others... I think a better target priority, using range and nightfight to make opponents shots useless, screening vunerable ravagers with venoms at deployment, castling, etc would help you immeasurably.

_________________
Never fistfight with ugly people. They have nothing to lose.
Back to top Go down
http://www.fantasybattles.com
shadowseercB
Wych
shadowseercB

Posts : 550
Join date : 2012-10-21

Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous Empty
PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 25 2013, 19:43

Is this a good DE/Eldar list?

2K points on the dot

HQ:

50
Haemonculus

120
Eldrad

Elite:

136 points
Kabalite Truebornx3, blasterx2, splinter cannon, Raider

136 points
Kabalite Truebornx3, blasterx2, splinter cannon, Raider

136 points
Kabalite Truebornx3, blasterx2, splinter cannon, Raider

Troops:

200
Kabalite warriorsx20, Splinter cannonx2

160
Kabalite warriorsx10, splinter cannon, raider

95
Wracksx3, Venom-splintercannon

95
Wracksx3, Venom-splintercannon

95
Wracksx3, Venom-splintercannon

120
Pathfindersx5

Fast attack:

162
Reaversx6, Blasterx2

Heavy:

105
Ravager

105
Ravager

120
Warwalkersx3, scatter lasersx6

Maybe switch pathfinders for guardians w/ missile launcher (Krak)? 48 inches is pretty nice.

Double posting is against the forum rules, please use the edit button in future. Thanks - Mush
Back to top Go down
Azdrubael
Incubi
Azdrubael

Posts : 1853
Join date : 2011-11-16
Location : Russia

Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous Empty
PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 25 2013, 20:02

Quote :
Maybe im going about it wrong, can you give me an example of a "target priority"?

Example - you have disembarked a blasterborn in front of a rhino, ready and primed to fire. You dont immediately fire with them, as you remember you have a raider back that only have LOS to that rhino. If you fire with blasterborn, that one dark lance shot back there will be wasted.

You chose to fire Raider first, exploding the rhino, blasterborns sends fulisade of fire from their blasters at the surviving troops. If you failed to do damage to rhino, you still did maximum of what you could.

Thats target priority, maximising what you can do.

It is also chosing what is more threatening in the enemy's army, say war walkers battary firing at one of your ravagers will kill it almost certainly, while fire prism may miss its concentrated shot. So the first thing to die is warwalkers, that will lead you to your army selection, as you will need to have enough long range AV to deal with them, or a distraction force that cant be ignored (like Seer Councile or Beastmasters squad, Hellions, Reavers at the back etc... ).

Thats actually 4th theme, brainhacking enemy target prority by presenting them big red thing coming for them, symbolysing immediate and unignorable danger. As you can see, there is none in your list, you only have "damage dealers", which enemy can pick apart and prioritise himself.

Back to top Go down
Rathstar
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 55
Join date : 2012-07-11
Location : UK

Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous Empty
PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 25 2013, 20:43

I think you're thinking that you can only have 3 heavy support when you have allies. The allies are on top of the standard force organisation chart. There my recommendation would be either drop the pathfinders for a 3rd ravaged or try to save some more pts to swap the pathfinders for a flyer.

Rathstar

_________________
______________________________________________________________________________
My Blog: http://rathstarramblings.blogspot.co.uk/

The following quote is from around 6th edition, how have things changed Smile

@sweetbacon wrote:
You're spending 225 points on Wyches???

Wyches?!!

Why?  

Did someone threaten your family?  

Are you under duress right now?  

Blink if you are and I'll summon the authorities.
Back to top Go down
http://rathstarramblings.blogspot.co.uk/
shadowseercB
Wych
shadowseercB

Posts : 550
Join date : 2012-10-21

Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous Empty
PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 26 2013, 03:39

It says in the codex Archon's plan meticulously. They really stuck to the lore on that one. Time to get my hands on other army codex's

_________________
15,000 Dark Eldar
20,000 Eldar
7,000 Mechanicum
3,500 Harlequin
Back to top Go down
Darklight
Sybarite
Darklight

Posts : 384
Join date : 2011-05-27
Location : Stavanger

Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous Empty
PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 26 2013, 07:02

Ok so, its basically if you want to play comeptitive or fun.

Some people really are giving bad advice. I will give advice on competitive play and if thats not what you are looking for then just disregard all I am writing Wink

First of, drop duality. Its not comeptitive.

136 points
Kabalite Truebornx3, blasterx2, splinter cannon, Raider

This is a HORRIBLE example of list building. Duality in DE sucks. And you dont need more SC. Drop SC, and raider. Play with Trueborns x3, blasterx3 in venom w/dual SC. Thats a good group. You can use Raider aswell but dont go all raiders in a list. For a 2K list you should have 9+++ Dedicated transports, then not more than 4 Raiders if you ask me.


200
Kabalite warriorsx20, Splinter cannonx2

160
Kabalite warriorsx10, splinter cannon, raider


The first group there is very poor. Drop it and get some 5xWarriors w/blaster in venom w/dual SC. Will do a better job at 125pts.

The 2nd there is "ok", but I would rather see you get another of the warrior group.

Heck at 2K points the basic of your list could look like this:

6x 5xWarrior w/blaster in Venom w/dual SC - 750pts
6x Ravanger - 630pts

Deployment isnt THAT important that some people here make it out to be. not with DE, you can get in the position you want in T1, so dont be to worried about it, unless you play a DS team, then just castle deploy and you will be fine.

_________________
Plays Dark Eldar, Eldar and Harlequins.
If you are from norway, check out www.drittunger.no
Back to top Go down
ravengoescaw
Heamonculi
ravengoescaw

Posts : 215
Join date : 2012-09-27
Location : Corvallis, OR

Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous Empty
PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 26 2013, 08:28

Reavers need to be minimum of 6 or not taken at all if you are going to use them to do anything beside throw away points. 3 is to small to do anything but maybe contest an objective turn 5 IF it lives that long. I either take 9 2x9 or none. If you take reavers either you use them as AI with some AT, blade vaneing them from cover to cover, or you use the as a AT Reaction force, dealing with vics that are out of the position you want them in, then AI when Vics are cleared off the board. I personally think they are a great unit when used properly. If mis-used then they are an expensive warrior squad. If that is the case, drop them and take another warriors squad or trueborn.

_________________
The new army and it's fluff

https://www.thedarkcity.net/t12640-band-of-the-unbending-thorn#142250


Still fighting the world and saving damsels in distress. ~Raven
Back to top Go down
Rathstar
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 55
Join date : 2012-07-11
Location : UK

Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous Empty
PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 26 2013, 11:38

@Darklight wrote:
Ok so, its basically if you want to play comeptitive or fun.

Some people really are giving bad advice. I will give advice on competitive play and if thats not what you are looking for then just disregard all I am writing Wink

First of, drop duality. Its not comeptitive.

136 points
Kabalite Truebornx3, blasterx2, splinter cannon, Raider

This is a HORRIBLE example of list building. Duality in DE sucks. And you dont need more SC. Drop SC, and raider. Play with Trueborns x3, blasterx3 in venom w/dual SC. Thats a good group. You can use Raider aswell but dont go all raiders in a list. For a 2K list you should have 9+++ Dedicated transports, then not more than 4 Raiders if you ask me.


200
Kabalite warriorsx20, Splinter cannonx2

160
Kabalite warriorsx10, splinter cannon, raider


The first group there is very poor. Drop it and get some 5xWarriors w/blaster in venom w/dual SC. Will do a better job at 125pts.

The 2nd there is "ok", but I would rather see you get another of the warrior group.

Heck at 2K points the basic of your list could look like this:

6x 5xWarrior w/blaster in Venom w/dual SC - 750pts
6x Ravanger - 630pts


I suppose I should reply as it seems my post heavy influenced the new list Smile

I agree that a more optimal trueborn unit would be the 3 blasterborn in a venom, however I was trying to save 10 points to fit in 3 war walkers, and I didn't want to write up a list which needed shadowseercB to buy too many more models (so I limited myself to the vehicles he had in his original list).

I have experienced mixed squads working to an extent, and it is normally when you want the trueborn to be mainly splinter cannon carriers. Haywire grenades have also helped in my experience. However my list is more aggressive, and in an 100% shooting force maybe the haywires will not work, in which case it is another reason to use the standard set-up you recommended.

The 20 warriors was again another catering to not take the list too far from it's original concept. I was thinking of where the farseer could go. I see the main options as:
- in a large warrior squad
- with pathfinders
- on a bike with eldar jetbiks (but I see this as fragile unit that won't do much)
- on a bike with reavers (but I think it puts too much of target on the reavers, especially when the farseer can't cast fortune on them)
- on a bike (but some people still use eldrad on foot) with beastmasters

If the farseer is going to be used he needs somewhere to go, and as he can't enter a DE vehicle, it needs careful thought as to where he can go where he won't be taken out easily. Also the warrior and pathfinder options are quite static compared to a usual DE army, so at the end of the day a valid option is to not bother with eldar allies at all because it does change the dyanamic of the army quite considerably.

On a side not I think the best eldar units to add are:
- Farseer (for the psychic defense)
- Eldar Jetbikes (the best of the bad troops, stay in reserve and zoom to get objectives)
- War Walkers (nice, high volume, mid strength firepower)
Some people also like fire dragons, particularly for the exarch to fire a quad gun (my opinion is that it's a bit expensive). Also from forgeworld the Nightwing is a better killer of other flyers (as it swaps the razorwing's missiles for 6 str 6 shots), and the Warp Hunter looks nasty.

By only taking the farseer and the jetbikes I don't think you're making the best use of allies, and forces you to add a unit that looks off in the list (the large warriors on foot). I think you should consider trying to write a list which contains units which gel better (eg. beastmasters or hellions to join a farseer on a bike) or consider dropping the eldar allies all together.

Therefore shadowseercB it's all up to you, how far away from your orginal list do you want advice to be ?

Have you got the models (or the funds to buy the models) to experiement with more standard tournament builds.

Do the players you play against expect the 2nd FOC you're allowed at 2K to be used ? - if so i would definitely recommend expanding the heavy support slots.

Do you want any counter attack in the list (the Baron with Beastmasters has worked well for me) ?

Btw when I refer to the standard competitive list I mean:

Baron
Haemy

3 x 3 Trueborn with Blasters in Venoms with Dual Cannons

4 x 5 Warriors with a Blaster in a Venom with Dual Cannons
2 x 3 Wracks in a Venom with Dual Cannons

4 Beastmasters, 5 Krymera, 6 Razorwing Flocks

3 x Ravagers

Comes to around 1900 pts. However they're a lot of varients. Instead of the beastmaster and baron you could use reaver jetbikes to bladevane instead, some people like a couple of units of 5 wyches with haywire in venoms (only really works in a more agressive list). Personally I add in a voidraven instead of one of the ravagers, and use a couple of assault units (wyches/wracks) which is generally frowned upon in 6th edition.

There's lots of choice, but it depends on how competitive you want to be, how competitive the people you play against are, and what models to you have available or could buy.

Rathstar

_________________
______________________________________________________________________________
My Blog: http://rathstarramblings.blogspot.co.uk/

The following quote is from around 6th edition, how have things changed Smile

@sweetbacon wrote:
You're spending 225 points on Wyches???

Wyches?!!

Why?  

Did someone threaten your family?  

Are you under duress right now?  

Blink if you are and I'll summon the authorities.
Back to top Go down
http://rathstarramblings.blogspot.co.uk/
shadowseercB
Wych
shadowseercB

Posts : 550
Join date : 2012-10-21

Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous Empty
PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 27 2013, 02:11

I have all models, I have plenty of units. I just have 4 ravagers and 6 raiders though. 50 warriors, 30 wyches, 24 reavers, 10 wracks, and so on.

Alot of opinions here and that is great. Im trying for a DE competitive list. From what I have been told I HAVE to have Eldar allies but I prefer just to play with DE.

In my list it was only 3 eldar jetbikes not reavers.

Ill switch out the splinter cannon as recommended.

I will add more warriors to the mix in the venoms.


_________________
15,000 Dark Eldar
20,000 Eldar
7,000 Mechanicum
3,500 Harlequin
Back to top Go down
1++
Hekatrix
avatar

Posts : 1036
Join date : 2011-06-27
Location : Sydney

Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous Empty
PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 27 2013, 02:28

You don't HAVE to field anything. You field what you want to field.

Something you should keep in mind when you play, or even before the game starts is ask questions of your opponent.

shadowseerCB: "Do you have any blast weapons"
Opponent: "Yes"
sCB: "OK, on what units, what is the range, what is the strenth and AP, how many shots does each one put out"

Then you can deploy and play accordingly. Either avoid them, or target them.


List building is very important IMO. Deployment is right up there too. I'll add in that T1 movement phase is make or break for DE, so get it right.

Also don't feel like you have to rush everything forwards. That only really works when your playing Tau and you have a full assault army. Pick your opponent off unit by unit. Hide most of your army from his to mitigate the return fire.

You could build a list that is all 36" shooting. Dark Lances and Venoms. Keep to your max range and shoot him to bits. If he gets close/deepstrikes in, thats where your Warriors onboard the Venoms come into play. Trying to get them to kill stuff T1 or T2 on the opposite side of the board usually isn't the best way to play them.

_________________
"I'm alive from this pain!"
Back to top Go down
Mushkilla
Arena Champion
Mushkilla

Posts : 4017
Join date : 2012-07-16
Location : Toroid Arena

Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous Empty
PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 27 2013, 09:45

List building minutiae in my opinion only really come into play once you have a good grasp of the game. Not to mention not every list suits every player. You need to make an army of units you understand and know how to use and build the list that is right for you.

From everything you have said it really sounds like you are making most of your mistakes at deployment, in the movement phase and with target priority. It also sounds like you don't know your opponents army, in 40k it's important to know your enemies army almost as well as your own so that you know what it's capable of.

Honestly I think you should try some smaller games as they are better for getting to grips with units and learning to coordinate your forces. You can also get more games in and learn from your mistakes faster. At the moment you are loosing the game at deployment and in the first few turns whether you realise it or not.

You can have the best list in the world if you don't understand it or the strengths and weaknesses of your army and your opponents it won't do you much good.

In short go back to basics.

Hope that helps. Smile

_________________
Latest Report: BR4: The Repugnant Ramblers Vs Imperial Knights - 1250pts
Pragmatic Realspace Raider Series


“Even the Black Buzzards thought highly of him, and those maniacs were renowned for hating everyone.” - Tantalus, by Braden Campbell
Back to top Go down
shadowseercB
Wych
shadowseercB

Posts : 550
Join date : 2012-10-21

Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous Empty
PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 27 2013, 10:02

Will do, thanks.

I spent a couple hours sorting out what dice roll low. Im not sure but I think just certain dice are made bad in each of my dice packs. So now I have what looks like random large and small dice to use heh.

I tend to use flicker and night shields in all my vehicles. Are they necessary? People I talk to although they dont play 6th ed dark eldar say just spend points on footing as many troops as possible.

Double posting is against the forum rules, please use the edit button in future. Thanks - Mush
Back to top Go down
Vasara
Incognito assault marine
Vasara

Posts : 1160
Join date : 2012-08-22
Location : Vantaa

Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous Empty
PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 27 2013, 10:16

No they aren't You'll haave jinkafter first turn and should have cover from terrain that first turn. Spendin 20 pts o six vehicles costs as much as 2 new vehicles.

_________________
New Dark Eldar in Tournaments: Wins: 17 Draws: 2 Losses: 8
ETC 2013 DE/Eldar player (4th)
ETC 2014 Coach (16th)
ETC 2015 Captain, Eldar/DE (10th)
Painting blog
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous Empty
PostSubject: Re: Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous   Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous I_icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
Loosing streak, a bit ridiculous
Back to top 
Page 1 of 2Go to page : 1, 2  Next

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

COMMORRAGH TACTICA

 :: Drukhari Tactics
-
Jump to: