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Ophidian Vane
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PostSubject: Trueborn   Trueborn I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 20 2013, 19:17

So Ive been having a much harder time in 6th. But one question i have is why people think DL truborn shouldnt have a vemon.

it still grants the 5++, the nightshield protection, and the protection of a hull.

I assume when people buy the DL trueborn they byuy the venom regardless, but deploy on foot and let the venomfly around by itself?
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pantofful
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PostSubject: Re: Trueborn   Trueborn I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 20 2013, 19:27

I think it's a cost/benefit thing. I'm not against 2 DL trueborn in a venom, it's just for a similar number of points I can get 4 blaster trueborn in a venom, and the venom's movement negates much of the range disadvantage, while doubling the number of St8 Ap2 shots I can get.

So if I'm going to pay for the points of the venom anyway, why not get the extra AT shots?
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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: Trueborn   Trueborn I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 20 2013, 20:00

It's about the same amount of points 3 tb with blasters. The DL squad is 5pts more. It really just depends on weather or not need the extra range.
I usually end up taking the dark lances. Both units have their place.

I also run them sepeate from the venom as I don't like 2 tb dying to vehicle explodes. That and I can keep the venom on the move.

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DominicJ
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PostSubject: Re: Trueborn   Trueborn I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 20 2013, 20:45

"it still grants the 5++, the nightshield protection, and the protection of a hull."

Well, sort of, an unlucky set of rolls and it leads to one krak missile wiping out the entire squad.
The biggest problem would be dudes in a transport count as moving if the transport moves.
So snapshots.

Running 5 trueborn with 2 lances in cover, and an indepenant venom sounds like a fair idea.

But its 175pts. A three Lance ravager is only 105

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Ophidian Vane
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PostSubject: Re: Trueborn   Trueborn I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 20 2013, 21:54

My issue with the blasters is only being able to move 6 and fire at BS. Im usually snap firiing anyway. and getting ridiculously close to way too much return fire.
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baster
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PostSubject: Re: Trueborn   Trueborn I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 20 2013, 22:14

how do you make 5 TB and 2xDL come to 175 pts
i make it 110!!

i run 3 TB 2xDL 86 pts keep em on foot in ruins or cover and snipe away, i would take a venom for them if i had another 1 lol
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Ophidian Vane
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PostSubject: Re: Trueborn   Trueborn I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 20 2013, 22:38

@baster wrote:
how do you make 5 TB and 2xDL come to 175 pts
i make it 110!!

i run 3 TB 2xDL 86 pts keep em on foot in ruins or cover and snipe away, i would take a venom for them if i had another 1 lol

would you deploy in ithe venom, or have it run around separate?
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Blutvogt
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PostSubject: Re: Trueborn   Trueborn I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 21 2013, 05:59

@baster wrote:
how do you make 5 TB and 2xDL come to 175 pts
i make it 110!!

i run 3 TB 2xDL 86 pts keep em on foot in ruins or cover and snipe away, i would take a venom for them if i had another 1 lol

It's 110 + Venom with Night shield 65= 175pts
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DominicJ
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PostSubject: Re: Trueborn   Trueborn I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 21 2013, 09:36

Well, mine was venom with extra cannon Smile

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Blutvogt
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PostSubject: Re: Trueborn   Trueborn I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 21 2013, 09:41

sorry, didn't saw that...
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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Trueborn   Trueborn I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 21 2013, 14:56

Ive used this idea several times in the past. It leaves you with several options at your disposal.

First off you can put them in some cover, and have an extra venom driving around shooting. This makes two targets from one unit, which helps with target saturation. To top that off, 3 guys in cover is normally a very low priority for most enemies, as they think they are so easy to remove. Consider though they are one less dark lance shot than a ravager, which is normally the opponent's first target in any of our lists. This gives us 2 lance most of the game, until the opponent decides to target them. When he does, you just go to ground, giving them a 2+~3+ coversave (4+ for ruins or 5+ for anything else, +2 for going to ground in area terrain) and you will see its not that easy to move those models. At that point your opponent is wasting shots on 3 models that cant score.

Now if your playing KPs, you can leave them in the venom. This gives you a 5++ at all times, and if the opponent shoots them down, they are in their own cover. follow the same instructions, and you got yourself again something solid. Sure its not perfect, but again he will be wasting shots he could put elsewhere.

This build has one advantage over blasterborn is that T1 they add to your darklight count, while blasterborn have to wait to atleast T2 to contribute.

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mug7703
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PostSubject: Re: Trueborn   Trueborn I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 21 2013, 16:53

Are Reavers with Blasters/HLs the new replacement for Trueborn this edition? I know they don't vie for the same OC slot but they vie for similar rules and are generally a drain on the leftover points (after the obligatory troops, HQ and HS in our army).

They cost more points but are more survivable, mobile and versatile.
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Ophidian Vane
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PostSubject: Re: Trueborn   Trueborn I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 21 2013, 18:11

@mug7703 wrote:
Are Reavers with Blasters/HLs the new replacement for Trueborn this edition? I know they don't vie for the same OC slot but they vie for similar rules and are generally a drain on the leftover points (after the obligatory troops, HQ and HS in our army).

They cost more points but are more survivable, mobile and versatile.

My reavers have done nothing but die in every 6ed game.
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Trueborn   Trueborn I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 21 2013, 18:30

@Ophidian Vane wrote:
My reavers have done nothing but die in every 6ed game.

What squad size do you use? What weapon load out? How do you use them? Even with T4 and a 3+ cover save they are a very fragile unit if you don't look after them. Are you turbo-boosting into the enemy army turn 1?

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Ophidian Vane
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PostSubject: Re: Trueborn   Trueborn I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 21 2013, 18:46

@Mushkilla wrote:
@Ophidian Vane wrote:
My reavers have done nothing but die in every 6ed game.

What squad size do you use? What weapon load out? How do you use them? Even with T4 and a 3+ cover save they are a very fragile unit if you don't look after them. Are you turbo-boosting into the enemy army turn 1?

6 reavers, 2 HL. Last game i did in fact turbo boost straight into the enemy lol... then the heldrake showed up
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shadowseercB
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PostSubject: Re: Trueborn   Trueborn I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 21 2013, 19:02

Blasters are more reliable on reavers.

Dark lance has a major advantage with 36 inch range. Blasters have 18 inch range but much cheaper to have 4. Otherwise they have the same stats.

Mobility is a must and venoms fulfill that well.

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PostSubject: Re: Trueborn   Trueborn I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 21 2013, 19:09

Blaster Reavers have a 30" threat range and the option to retreat afterwards.
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Trueborn   Trueborn I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 21 2013, 19:25

@mug7703 wrote:
Are Reavers with Blasters/HLs the new replacement for Trueborn this edition?

Nope and they never will be. 3 trueborn, 3 blaster, venom, splinter cannon is 146pts, cheap anti tank and anti infantry rolled into one, that can use both its anti infantry ability and anti vehicle abilities in the same turn. Mobile AA with the snap shot 12" move shout 18" blasters.

Reavers on the other hand are an expensive somewhat resilient unit, that has to choose between AI and AT on any given turn. They are also a fantastic denial/disruption unit, that thanks to their mobility can be wherever the AT or AI is needed most.

Two very different rolls.

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huymix
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PostSubject: Re: Trueborn   Trueborn I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 21 2013, 19:32

So I tend to run 3 small squads of Trueborn (3 man 2 Lance) with a Venom each and there really are a number of factors to consider.

1. Does the army present an issue from shooting. Not so worried with Demons/Nids, Ork Nob bikers but I will mount if there are drop pods.

2. How necessary is it to move the Venoms. If I can keep them stationary and still shoot the lights out then sure I'll mount them.

3. How is the available line of sight/terrain. If I can't deploy in a good spot, I might sacrifice 1 turn (snapfiring of course) in order for the venom to perch the trueborn to a better vantage point. Ex. a ruin is outside deployment, I would deploy in the venom in order to just move (take a check) and have them at the right spot for turn 2 and beyond.

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