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 Army List for GT Final 1850pts

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Canyoneromikos
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PostSubject: Army List for GT Final 1850pts   Army List for GT Final 1850pts I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 15 2013, 18:21

I thought i'd post the list that i'm using up.

This is a draft list i may tweak it a little after a few more practice games, but its worked pretty well the last two games its played.

The GT is Forgeworld Allowed.... not that dark eldar have any good FW stuff but its something to bear in mind.

Dark Eldar Main (obviously):

Baron Sathonyx

2 x 3 Trueborn, 2 Splinter Cannons Venom (2 Cannons)

1 x 3 Wracks, Venom (2 Cannons)

2 x 5 Wych's, Haywire Grenades, Venom (2 Cannons)

1 x 5 Warriors, Venom (2 Cannons)

Beastmaster unit
10 kymera
4 beastmasters
4 razorwing flocks

3 Ravagers, Dark Lances

Eldar Allies

Eldrad

3 Jetbikes

Warphunter

Fortifications

Aegis+ Quadgun

Eldrad goes in the beastmaster unit and uses a mix of telepathy and Divination powers. Puppet master, hallucination are fantastic spells but the best imho is the spell that makes your unit fearless.

Imagine the following.....

The beast unit are in area terrain i'm shot by a unit of guardsmen first rank fire second rank fire. i go to ground for a 2+ cover save. Next turn before movement i make the unit fearless. a unit cant go to ground when fearless so it immediately jumps up. Next turn it can move shoot assault as normal. One of the many tricks eldrad brings to the table!

The wracks fire the quad gun. People won't shoot em as there's no point. there's better targets.

The trueborn sit behind the aegis most of the time

The Warphunter is a silly tank, and is too good not to use

So there it is!


Last edited by Canyoneromikos on Sat Feb 16 2013, 00:11; edited 1 time in total
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Ehawther
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PostSubject: Re: Army List for GT Final 1850pts   Army List for GT Final 1850pts I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 15 2013, 21:26

A quick question about your Aegis+Quadgun combo and all the units back there:

With the Wrack's Venom and the Trueborn with Splinter cannons and their Venom all behind this wall, how are you typically deploying them? Having just started with DE I'm interested in this kind of set up for helping with AA while I become more comfortable with "out-maneuvering" enemy flyers. Plus it seems you have some decent fire power that would actually warrant some attention (6 Splinter Cannons + 4 potential KP's from the vehicles and units).

Oh and you don't have your Beastmaster unit listed.


Last edited by Ehawther on Sat Feb 16 2013, 00:07; edited 1 time in total
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Flayed_Heart_Kabal
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PostSubject: Re: Army List for GT Final 1850pts   Army List for GT Final 1850pts I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 15 2013, 21:40

Hmmm, only 4 troops is no bueno. I would take more.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Army List for GT Final 1850pts   Army List for GT Final 1850pts I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 15 2013, 23:07

I think your forgot to add the beast to your post. Beast star with Eldrad support is really popular at the moment (on the internet), though all the telepathy powers have good range so you don't need to run him in the beasts unit.

The one thing with the go to ground fearless trick is that the power lasts until your next turn, so you will only be able to go to ground once every other turn. Which might be a problem considering how much slower the beasts are with Eldrad.

Eldrad will slow the beasts down, he doesn't have fleet, so no re-rolling runs or charges and he will also force then to be slowed by terrain. As unfortunately models moving at different speeds does not apply to difficult terrain. Although I do believe beasts have move through cover which will confer to Eldrad meaning he will at least be able to roll three dice, unfortunately it will still limit the beasts to 6" movement. This forces you to keep Eldrad out of terrain, as otherwise the whole unit can't move more than the distance rolled on the terrain test.

Quote :
If the unit starts its move outside difficult terrain the player must declare if he wants his unit to try and enter difficult terrain as part of their move... If he chooses for a unit to do so, the unit must take a difficult terrain test. -BRB page 90

Quote :
If any models in a unit start their move in difficult terrain, they are affected by the terrain and must take a difficult terrain test. No model in the unit can move more than the distance indicated by the test, even if they are not in difficult terrain. -BRB page 90

Those are the things I would watch out for and one of the reasons I would try and find space for Eldrad somewhere else in the list.

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Canyoneromikos
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PostSubject: Re: Army List for GT Final 1850pts   Army List for GT Final 1850pts I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 17 2013, 20:50

Ok so lets answer all these then!

Quote :
With the Wrack's Venom and the Trueborn with Splinter cannons and their Venom all behind this wall, how are you typically deploying them? Having just started with DE I'm interested in this kind of set up for helping with AA while I become more comfortable with "out-maneuvering" enemy flyers. Plus it seems you have some decent fire power that would actually warrant some attention (6 Splinter Cannons + 4 potential KP's from the vehicles and units).

the only units relying on the great fence of death is the 2 trueborn units and the wracks, the rest of the army can essentially ignore it.

The ignoring the flyers tactic works to a point. Unfortunatly if you ever wanna beat necrons you have to be able to destroy them. it's just how it is.

KP will allways be a struggle but if the opponant decides to target any of the units they just go to ground and the opponant effectively has wasted some shooting.

Quote :
Hmmm, only 4 troops is no bueno. I would take more.

depends on the tournament, but for the majority where its the win lose draw, you can get away with 4 easily.

Quote :
The one thing with the go to ground fearless trick is that the power lasts until your next turn, so you will only be able to go to ground once every other turn. Which might be a problem considering how much slower the beasts are with Eldrad.

Eldrad will slow the beasts down, he doesn't have fleet, so no re-rolling runs or charges and he will also force then to be slowed by terrain. As unfortunately models moving at different speeds does not apply to difficult terrain. Although I do believe beasts have move through cover which will confer to Eldrad meaning he will at least be able to roll three dice, unfortunately it will still limit the beasts to 6" movement. This forces you to keep Eldrad out of terrain, as otherwise the whole unit can't move more than the distance rolled on the terrain test.

Quote:
If the unit starts its move outside difficult terrain the player must declare if he wants his unit to try and enter difficult terrain as part of their move... If he chooses for a unit to do so, the unit must take a difficult terrain test. -BRB page 90


Quote:
If any models in a unit start their move in difficult terrain, they are affected by the terrain and must take a difficult terrain test. No model in the unit can move more than the distance indicated by the test, even if they are not in difficult terrain. -BRB page 90


Those are the things I would watch out for and one of the reasons I would try and find space for Eldrad somewhere else in the list.

i think your reading these rules too litrally here. Essentially every single unit that starts or is intending to end its movement in difficult terrain must roll the 2/3 dice. ignore the special rules for now. So a beast unit, jump infantry jetbikes etc etc as well as infantry will all have to roll 2 dice and choose the highest. It's just because of their rules there isn't any point of rolling.

So yes if the beast unit wants to go in terrain they have to roll. Fortunatly....

Beasts can move up to '12. Beasts are not slowed by difficult terrain (even when charging) - brb pg 48

Essentially they can ignore the roll thats just been made. Eldrad can't but then again for me who cares. I guess this is what is convincing you other wise?
Quote :
No model in the unit can move more than the distance indicated by the test, even if they are not in difficult terrain. -BRB page 90

Put it this way, if you were correct normal beasts units even if they didnt have a charector attached would only be able to move up to 6. well the highest roll on 3 d6. Because they started in or out of terrain. That isnt right otherwise whats the point of the beasts terrain rule if they couldn't use it?

It doesnt slow the unit down much at all eldrads spell range is 24 inch's really and so the agresive spells require you generally to advance which is ok. and he has the ability to tie large units down if he gets precognition.

If hes sitting around in a baby sitting unit like rangers etc hes just simply not being used to his full potential as he can then be happily avoided. He can cast prescience to his hears content but believe me its alot more brutal to be casting that on the beast unit or making them invisible.

Your right that fleet cant be used but being able to move 24' plus d6 generally puts you within a good distance not to worry about all that. If the charge distance is dogy he can allways split off. Hope this clears things up!

Mush can you send me a 1850 list via PM i really think your list has tourny potential! but obviously youve played with reavers alot more than myself!
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Flayed_Heart_Kabal
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PostSubject: Re: Army List for GT Final 1850pts   Army List for GT Final 1850pts I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 17 2013, 23:22

Quote :
The ignoring the flyers tactic works to a point. Unfortunatly if you ever wanna beat necrons you have to be able to destroy them. it's just how it is.

That's actually not true at all. You can easily ignore necron flyers, in fact that's the only way you can beat them. At a GT, my friend was playing DE with 5 venoms, Hellions, 3 ravagers and some raiders. He faced 2 necron flyer armies, 1 with 3 flyers and 3 Annihilation Barges, and one with 3 Nightscythes, a doomscythe, and ork allies, and beat the first list. The second one he lost by 1 victory point, and had it gone on to turn 7 he would have won easily. In both games, he wiped out all the units on the ground, and then just dodged around to avoid the flyers. Oh yeah, the last game was Killpoints as the primary mission, too, which was the reason he lost. He went 4-1, only losing the final game on table 1. Now take my performance as a counterpoint to his. I was running a similar list, and I faced the same flyer lists as he did, BOTH in killpoint missions. I lost both games, because I FOCUSED ON KILLING THE FLYERS TOO MUCH. The killpoints didn't even matter, I set myself up to be tabled in one game by firing everything at his flyers. I lost to the Orkcrons because I had no answer for the Orks, I didn't have helloions or anything.

As far as the troops go, You have 15 toughness scoring models, and 3 toughness 4...18 scoring models at 1850 is not enough. 4 troops can work for armies like grey knights, where you have full strike squads, but with DE at 1750+ points, you NEED 6 troops to be competitive.

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Canyoneromikos
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PostSubject: Re: Army List for GT Final 1850pts   Army List for GT Final 1850pts I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 18 2013, 07:50

Quote :
That's actually not true at all. You can easily ignore necron flyers, in fact that's the only way you can beat them. At a GT, my friend was playing DE with 5 venoms, Hellions, 3 ravagers and some raiders. He faced 2 necron flyer armies, 1 with 3 flyers and 3 Annihilation Barges, and one with 3 Nightscythes, a doomscythe, and ork allies, and beat the first list. The second one he lost by 1 victory point, and had it gone on to turn 7 he would have won easily. In both games, he wiped out all the units on the ground, and then just dodged around to avoid the flyers. Oh yeah, the last game was Killpoints as the primary mission, too, which was the reason he lost. He went 4-1, only losing the final game on table 1. Now take my performance as a counterpoint to his. I was running a similar list, and I faced the same flyer lists as he did, BOTH in killpoint missions. I lost both games, because I FOCUSED ON KILLING THE FLYERS TOO MUCH. The killpoints didn't even matter, I set myself up to be tabled in one game by firing everything at his flyers. I lost to the Orkcrons because I had no answer for the Orks, I didn't have helloions or anything.

seriously i agree with you to a point. I came 19th at caledonian without any anti aircraft fire. The issue is that if you play any of the Meta Necron lists were talking...

18 wraiths 3 annialation barges 2 destroyer lords, 3 night scythes.....

Then the issue arises that if you go second and ignore the flyers thats 3 holding units you cant stop and so your three objectives down.

I played that sorta list twice. In each list all that was left was 2 scoring units 2 necron flyers and a necron lord and the opponant won. Theres only so much that dark lances can do when skyfiring.

Quote :
As far as the troops go, You have 15 toughness scoring models, and 3 toughness 4...18 scoring models at 1850 is not enough. 4 troops can work for armies like grey knights, where you have full strike squads, but with DE at 1750+ points, you NEED 6 troops to be competitive.

again i'd disagree with this. In the WLD environment you only need 4. Letsd have a look at the missions...

multiple objectives. Yeah lots more troops is usefull here.
Scourging. Beast unit now scores
Big Guns. Ravagers now score
Base Swap. only 2 objectives
Relic. Only 1 objective
KP no objectives.

so three are multiple objective and in 2 of those 3 an additional slot scores, so only really in 1 mission is lots of trrops a benefit and even then 1 of the opponants denial units will ruin your day.

I have been looking into a big unit of warriors to sit behind the aegis but im not sure yet how ill fiddle that just yet. But ill probably never go for more than 4 troops.
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Army List for GT Final 1850pts   Army List for GT Final 1850pts I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 18 2013, 09:12

Canyoneromikos wrote:

Quote :
No model in the unit can move more than the distance indicated by the test, even if they are not in difficult terrain. -BRB page 90

Put it this way, if you were correct normal beasts units even if they didnt have a charector attached would only be able to move up to 6. well the highest roll on 3 d6. Because they started in or out of terrain. That isnt right otherwise whats the point of the beasts terrain rule if they couldn't use it?

It's not a problem when the beasts are alone as their unit ignores terrain, so they wouldn't have their movement restricted as they wouldn't take a terrain test. However add eldrad and it can be a problem (similar problem with harlequins who also ignore cover and attached character). See if the beasts enter terrain there isn't a problem (they ignore it so no test is taken). However if eldrad enters terrain there is a problem. As he takes the terrain test and that restricts the entire unit movement to whatever the roles on that test is, the fact that the beasts ignore terrain is irrelevant in this case.

Here's a thread on it in the rules section: Independent Character within Harlequin Troupe and movement.

Canyoneromikos wrote:
Mush can you send me a 1850 list via PM i really think your list has tourny potential! but obviously youve played with reavers alot more than myself!

I'll try and write one up, but so far for me anything above 1500pts is uncharted territory this edition.

Canyoneromikos wrote:
18 wraiths 3 annialation barges 2 destroyer lords, 3 night scythes.....

Then the issue arises that if you go second and ignore the flyers thats 3 holding units you cant stop and so your three objectives down.

Out of curiosity Does that necron list want to go first or second?


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